Jesus in the world of the dead overcame by use of God power or as a human soul?

[GoldenKingGaze]

According to the Nicene Creed, Jesus descended into the world of the dead below. He had just overcome the powers of sickness and sin and much infirmity on the cross. It was finished. But now Jesus had to overcome the darkness. Did Jesus overcome by use of the power of being God, or as a man, an anointed, angel strengthened man?

Did the Father and Spirit wait before they applied their power with His? The power of the resurrection? In Peter we read of Jesus preaching even to the Nephilim in gloomy dungeons.

Was Jesus reliant on the Father and the Spirit, both His anointing and the persons? Reliant at all times, bearing in mind the cloudy darkness as Jesus died and His cry, My Father, why have you forsaken me? And Luke 4, Jesus would not use His power and did not turn the stones to bread. Satan tested His identity and after the crucifixion was again at testing Jesus.

In John 2, Jesus says He will raise Himself from the dead. Other scriptures refer to the Father's role such as in Hebrews 13 and elsewhere the Spirit of grace.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

According to the Nicene Creed, Jesus descended into the world of the dead below. He had just overcome the powers of sickness and sin and much infirmity on the cross. It was finished. But now Jesus had to overcome the darkness. Did Jesus overcome by use of the power of being God, or as a man, an anointed, angel strengthened man?

Did the Father and Spirit wait before they applied their power with His? The power of the resurrection? In Peter we read of Jesus preaching even to the Nephilim in gloomy dungeons.

Was Jesus reliant on the Father and the Spirit, both His anointing and the persons? Reliant at all times, bearing in mind the cloudy darkness as Jesus died and His cry, My Father, why have you forsaken me? And Luke 4, Jesus would not use His power and did not turn the stones to bread. Satan tested His identity and after the crucifixion was again at testing Jesus.

In John 2, Jesus says He will raise Himself from the dead. Other scriptures refer to the Father's role such as in Hebrews 13 and elsewhere the Spirit of grace.

Scripture does not affirm that Jesus Christ of Nazareth went to hell. It appears in the Apostles Creed, though mostly doctrinally sound, this one line is highly controversial because it interjects an assumption when He made a reference to Jonah.
Blessings.
Matthew 12
38 Then some of the teachers of the Law and the proud religious law-keepers said to Jesus, “Teacher, we would like to have you do something special for us to see.” 39 He said to them, “The sinful people of this day look for something special to see. There will be nothing special to see but the powerful works of the early preacher Jonah. 40 Jonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of a big fish. The Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the grave also. 41 The men of the city of Nineveh will stand up with the people of this day on the day men stand before God. Those men will say these people are guilty because the men of Nineveh were sorry for their sins and turned from them when Jonah preached. And see, Someone greater than Jonah is here!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I have thought "why 3 days?" Why not 2. Why not 30? Why 3?
I concluded that either we cannot know at this point in time, or that it just so happened that 3 days is exactly what was required to accomplish the task. Some suggest that it took 3 days to preach to the righteous dead in "hell" and He rose as soon as that task was accomplished. Others suggest that He suffered that torment of hell, because that is part of the punishment we were due so He received. Did the cross not accomplish our redemption and was the suffering of hell required also? I am not sure anyone has addressed this question. I will be interested in the responses.

 

[Blade]

"According to the Nicene Creed, Jesus descended into the world of the dead below."

Well here's a taste :

"Psalm 16:10: “because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead “leave my soul in hell”], nor will you let your faithful one see decay.”
"Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
“He ascended” —what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, in which He also went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, [The souls of those] who long before in the days of Noah had been disobedient, when God’s patience waited during the building of the ark in which a few [people], actually eight in number, were saved through water.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Scripture does not affirm that Jesus Christ of Nazareth went to hell. It appears in the Apostles Creed, though mostly doctrinally sound, this one line is highly controversial because it interjects an assumption because He made a reference about Jonah.
Blessings.
Matthew 12
38 Then some of the teachers of the Law and the proud religious law-keepers said to Jesus, “Teacher, we would like to have you do something special for us to see.” 39 He said to them, “The sinful people of this day look for something special to see. There will be nothing special to see but the powerful works of the early preacher Jonah. 40 Jonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of a big fish. The Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the grave also. 41 The men of the city of Nineveh will stand up with the people of this day on the day men stand before God. Those men will say these people are guilty because the men of Nineveh were sorry for their sins and turned from them when Jonah preached. And see, Someone greater than Jonah is here!

Some of us think the early church and early fathers had retained traditions from Peter's, Paul's, John's and Jude's preachings that were not in letter.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I have thought "why 3 days?" Why not 2. Why not 30? Why 3?
I concluded that either we cannot know at this point in time, or that it just so happened that 3 days is exactly what was required to accomplish the task. Some suggest that it took 3 days to preach to the righteous dead in "hell" and He rose as soon as that task was accomplished. Others suggest that He suffered that torment of hell, because that is part of the punishment we were due so He received. Did the cross not accomplish our redemption and was the suffering of hell required also? I am not sure anyone has addressed this question. I will be interested in the responses.

Hebrew three days and three nights is not the western calculation of 3 times 24 hours.

Jesus did not look forward to being down there, He looked forwards to the reward after. Jesus had to overcome with a final few blows, the power of darkness and you could say hate. He crushed the serpent's head. The serpent intended to take Jesus' inheritance. Satan totaled his powers and alliance against Jesus for his goal. This opportunity may have been why Jesus had to wait so long for the head crushing event and did not use the angels to conquest Hell and empty it... A tactic like a Trojan horse.

Jesus preached in Hell. With a new sacrifice Satan had not anticipated. So the souls were released and Jesus led captivity captive in a procession seen by the angels.

I am not sure if Jesus needed to suffer fire below. But Jesus outstrengthed and outwitted Satan and his cohorts. He made a greater firmity.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Scripture does not affirm that Jesus Christ of Nazareth went to hell. It appears in the Apostles Creed, though mostly doctrinally sound, this one line is highly controversial because it interjects an assumption when He made a reference to Jonah.
Blessings.
Matthew 12
38 Then some of the teachers of the Law and the proud religious law-keepers said to Jesus, “Teacher, we would like to have you do something special for us to see.” 39 He said to them, “The sinful people of this day look for something special to see. There will be nothing special to see but the powerful works of the early preacher Jonah. 40 Jonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of a big fish. The Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the grave also. 41 The men of the city of Nineveh will stand up with the people of this day on the day men stand before God. Those men will say these people are guilty because the men of Nineveh were sorry for their sins and turned from them when Jonah preached. And see, Someone greater than Jonah is here!

Prominent Millard J Erickson author of Christian Theology has a cessationist and Calvinist view, using a strict Sola Scriptura. His science of Biblical interpretation discounts the veracity of the Nicene Creed, using reference to the pope of the day and it partly being just his interpretation of scripture. And he finds Bible references toward the descent as unreliable exegetically. He takes them another way.

 

[The Righterzpen]

According to the Nicene Creed, Jesus descended into the world of the dead below. He had just overcome the powers of sickness and sin and much infirmity on the cross. It was finished. But now Jesus had to overcome the darkness. Did Jesus overcome by use of the power of being God, or as a man, an anointed, angel strengthened man?

Did the Father and Spirit wait before they applied their power with His? The power of the resurrection? In Peter we read of Jesus preaching even to the Nephilim in gloomy dungeons.

Was Jesus reliant on the Father and the Spirit, both His anointing and the persons? Reliant at all times, bearing in mind the cloudy darkness as Jesus died and His cry, My Father, why have you forsaken me? And Luke 4, Jesus would not use His power and did not turn the stones to bread. Satan tested His identity and after the crucifixion was again at testing Jesus.

In John 2, Jesus says He will raise Himself from the dead. Other scriptures refer to the Father's role such as in Hebrews 13 and elsewhere the Spirit of grace.

Well the question is challenging to answer because there's a lot of "moving parts".

The point of the atonement was to confront the wrath of God on behalf of sinners Jesus would stand in the place of. His soul was "not left in hell" on account of he hadn't sinned himself. Jeremiah 30 talks about "time of Jacob's troubles" he's released from judgement on account of his own righteousness.

So there's a component of the Father raising him. The Spirit raising him; as well as he "taking up" his own life again.

It cost the total power of God to accomplish the atonement. Redeeming the world was far more trying than creating it! But all parts of Jesus's Divinity, as well as his humanity came out on the other side of it in tact.

 

[Derf]

According to the Nicene Creed, Jesus descended into the world of the dead below.

"World of the dead" is a little more specific than the Nicene creed. It says "hell", which is a little vague, perhaps on purpose. "Hell" is used in the bible for several different words, like sheol, hades, gehenna, tartarus, and we usually add the lake of fire to the list. The only biblical words that are associated with Jesus while dead are sheol and hades. These are also translated grave sometimes. The one thing we know for sure is that Jesus was in the grave for 3 days. The other stuff is speculation using presuppositions, which can be unreliable.

He had just overcome the powers of sickness and sin and much infirmity on the cross. It was finished. But now Jesus had to overcome the darkness. Did Jesus overcome by use of the power of being God, or as a man, an anointed, angel strengthened man?

You're assuming Jesus was actually active while He was dead. Most people aren't, even in sheol/Hades.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV — ... the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Psalm 115:17 KJV — The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

If Christ was dead, then even He wasn't praising the Lord.

Did the Father and Spirit wait before they applied their power with His? The power of the resurrection?

Jesus wasn't doing anything until He was raised from the dead, since the dead don't even know anything.

In Peter we read of Jesus preaching even to the Nephilim in gloomy dungeons.

Which is speculation based on presuppositions. Be careful not to say your own understanding of scripture is on the same level as scripture.

Was Jesus reliant on the Father and the Spirit, both His anointing and the persons? Reliant at all times, bearing in mind the cloudy darkness as Jesus died and His cry, My Father, why have you forsaken me? And Luke 4, Jesus would not use His power and did not turn the stones to bread. Satan tested His identity and after the crucifixion was again at testing Jesus.

In John 2, Jesus says He will raise Himself from the dead. Other scriptures refer to the Father's role such as in Hebrews 13 and elsewhere the Spirit of grace.

He was speaking of the resurrection, for sure. But why is that related to what He was doing while dead?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I made a previous thread asking for views on the traditions in the early fathers and questioning if they contained teachings from the apostles and Timothy... that were not written in the letters. There is some agreement that there is such a content in them. Like Bishop Augustine and De Trinitate. Also the Nicene Creed.

 

[IoanC]

Christ descended to Hades in order to rescue the righteous of The Old Testament. They were there, "in darkness", still waiting for the Messiah. They did not know that The Messiah was Christ and that Christ was God (The Son). Similarly, in The New Testament, we have to contemplate on this descent of God, so we can receive the fullness of The Messiah.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Christ descended to Hades in order to rescue the righteous of The Old Testament. They were there, "in darkness", still waiting for the Messiah. They did not know that The Messiah was Christ and that Christ was God (The Son). Similarly, in The New Testament, we have to contemplate on this descent of God, so we can receive the fullness of The Messiah.

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Abraham and Lazarus are enjoying each other's company. There is a separation of the righteous from the wicked. Lazarus has water. They were in good health, I don't see why they'd be in darkness.