Jesus has no DNA from Mary

[Strong in Him]

The Word existed before Mary and Abraham.

The Word created the heavens and the earth.

The heavens and earth were created by God the Father THROUGH his word.
Genesis says God SPOKE and the world was created; John says that everything was created through him.

I don't dispute this.
I am saying that, at a point in time, God sent his Son who became flesh, was born a human male and was given the name Jesus. Jesus had a real human body, real bones, real blood, real DNA; like us in every way, in fact.

 

[Selene03]

Not true. Original sin wasn’t defined as understood in the Roman Catholic Church and other western churches until many many years later that the early church. This was strongly influenced by St Augustine. You will find some western saints that are closer to St Augustine, but not across the church as a whole. You will find that Prodromos and other Orthodox believe that the Theotokos, Mary, is the new Eve, that she was holy and full of grace and so forth. We just don’t agree with your understanding of original sin, don’t see the need for the immaculate conception, believe it is problematic from the perspective of the incarnation, and definitely don’t agree with late development of dogma.

Original sin was understood in the Catholic Church because the concept came from the Apostles of Christ. Original sin came from our first parents, Adam and Eve. After Adam and Eve, all of mankind fell into the pit of original sin. Mary was also going to fall into that pit, but it was God who prevented her from falling. He had His hand on her as she was about to fall into original sin, thereby preventing her from falling and preserving her from original sin.

Since the second century, St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeus understood Mary to be the second Eve, as the one who undid Eve’s work in bringing humanity into sin. But in order for her to undo Eve's disobedience, she has be on the same equal footing as the first Eve. Like Eve, Mary was created full of grace. But unlike Eve, Mary remained obedient to God. Origen was the first Early Church father who called Mary "Immaculate." While Abraham, Noah, and the prophets were called "righteous", only Mary was called "Immaculate." Many people thought that the "Immaculate Conception" was invented by the Catholic Church in 1854 when it was declared a dogma, but this is false. If it was an invention, there would have been a lot of protests among the Catholics. The reason there were no protests when the dogma of the Immaculate Conception was declared in 1854 was because this was a belief that was already accepted for thousands of years.

 

[hedrick]

God does not contradict Himself. If God calls someone "man" then the person is what God had previously called "man".
He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Wait a sec. In the creation story, God speaks reality into being. If God called someone a man in that sense, they would actually change into a man. I think the discussion here is a different question. It's whether God can make a descriptive statement (as opposed to an act that changes reality) that by the normal rules of English is false.

In principle, God could command us to redefine our words, but it's nonsensical to talk about God making a statement that is false just for a single case (which wouldn't change definitions), and say that by definition what he says is true just because he's God. If you assume that in any statement God makes he may be arbitrarily using non-standard definitions so that what any normal person would understand from his statement is false, you make a mockery of God speaking truth.

 

[Alithis]

I never mentioned age.
I know the word Adam means man.

In another post someone said that Adam did not need a mother to exist - and so neither did Jesus.
God created Adam from dust and he existed as a fully grown man, so God could have created Jesus, inside Mary's womb, as a fully grown baby.
Yes, he COULD have - but didn't.

Lol ..age doesnt matter nor does size.
When a they take a fetus and implant it in tge womb of another woman ..its not visible. It can only be viewed under strong microscope. That child then grows from microscopic size to birth size.
Jesus is the word of God become flesh in the womb of a virgin.
He is not flesh become flesh. That denies Christ.

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus is the word of God become flesh in the womb of a virgin.
He is not flesh become flesh. That denies Christ.

I agree with you.
Jesus is the eternal Word who was with God in the beginning. He is, and was, God.
At a particular point in time, he became flesh - conceived by the Holy Spirit, born from a woman. Fully divine and fully human, like us in every way (except sin), flesh and blood with DNA, bones, blood cells and so on. A human who could only be in one place at a time, do a limited number of things, and whose human life had a beginning and an end - yet he was still God.

 

[Alithis]

I agree with you.
Jesus is the eternal Word who was with God in the beginning. He is, and was, God.
At a particular point in time, he became flesh - conceived by the Holy Spirit, born from a woman. Fully divine and fully human, like us in every way (except sin), flesh and blood with DNA, bones, blood cells and so on. A human who could only be in one place at a time, do a limited number of things, and whose human life had a beginning and an end - yet he was still God.

True. And he did so without any part of the physical sin tainted body, egg or blood of mary.
He is fully OF the holy Spirit.
Just as scripture states

 

[klutedavid]

The heavens and earth were created by God the Father THROUGH his word.

The heavens and the earth were created by the Father through Him and for Him.

Genesis says God SPOKE and the world was created; John says that everything was created through him.

No one has seen the Father, heard the Father, or even known the Father.

The Word spoke and the world then existed.

The God who spoke in the Old Testament was the Word.

I don't dispute this.

You can't dispute this.

Moses saw God and Moses was not looking at the Father, because the Father is Spirit and has never been seen.

I am saying that, at a point in time, God sent his Son who became flesh, was born a human male and was given the name Jesus.

The Word was God and the Word became flesh.
At the incarnation the Word is called the Son.

Jesus had a real human body, real bones, real blood, real DNA; like us in every way, in fact.

That is not in dispute.

The point of dispute is that the Word took on human form, the Word was not created in that human form.

Begotten not created is the point of contention.

Begotten not created, this cancels Mary's biological input. Mary was a vessel, Mary was a descendant of King David, Mary died and was buried.

Death spread to all people because all sinned.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

Mary sinned and died.

There was only one empty tomb!

 

[Lost4words]

So is a baby in a surragate mother.
Youve given zero scriptural basis. Your just voicing an opinion

You are in a fantasy. You misunderstand scripture and life.

 

[johnnywong]

what do you suggest? I'm open to suggestion!

Jesus is full God and full human .

He temporarily give up his prestige for 33 years on earth to become a full human to serve as a servant to God The Father! Amen!

 

[johnnywong]

If you want to convince them of something other than their church doctrine has taught them, this DNA thing isn't going to do it. You need a different approach, convincing people of things comes by way of the Holy Spirit and He shows up when truth is spoken from scripture . Faith comes by hearing ( if they will listen, which is very unlikely). Speaking of which, has the Holy Spirit assigned you this task ? If not then nobody should be listening.

Good advice !
God Bless You !

 

[johnnywong]

The heavens and the earth were created by the Father through Him and for Him.

No one has seen the Father, heard the Father, or even known the Father.

The Word spoke and the world then existed.

The God who spoke in the Old Testament was the Word.

You can't dispute this.

Moses saw God and Moses was not looking at the Father, because the Father is Spirit and has never been seen.

The Word was God and the Word became flesh.
At the incarnation the Word is called the Son.

That is not in dispute.

The point of dispute is that the Word took on human form, the Word was not created in that human form.

Begotten not created is the point of contention.

Begotten not created, this cancels Mary's biological input. Mary was a vessel, Mary was a descendant of King David, Mary died and was buried.

Death spread to all people because all sinned.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

Mary sinned and died.

There was only one empty tomb!

Correct!
Can't agree more.

 

[johnnywong]

Jesus

Jesus is 100% man and 100% God.

There are five main truths with which the creed of Chalcedon summarized the biblical teaching on the Incarnation:

1. Jesus has two natures — He is God and man.
2. Each nature is full and complete — He is fully God and fully man.
3. Each nature remains distinct.
4. Christ is only one Person.
5. Things that are true of only one nature are nonetheless true of the Person of Christ.

I agree that God could create a human. However such a human wouldn't be "descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom 1:3)

Yes!
Exactly !

 

[johnnywong]

You can't get DNA from a Spirit.
If Jesus had had NO human DNA he wouldn't have been human.
DNA does not determine, or mean, that a person will sin. Sin is rebellion against God. Satan was a created angel and rebelled against God; whose DNA did he have?

We can get anthing from The Spirit.(including the complete DNA set without any help from Human.

 

[johnnywong]

What

Why, just why Nestorius?

What do you mean ?

 

[johnnywong]

Except that Paul said Jesus was in all way made as we are. If you read early Christian accounts you'll find that people said that Jesus looked like James. I'd say that indicates similar DNA

Wrong.

Just before His Passion, the Savior said, "No one takes My life. I give it."

Quite possible!

 

[johnnywong]

A claim without basis, and one that attacks the integrity of the Incarnation.

-CryptoLutheran

NOT an attack !
It is a suggestion with still full claim of dual nature of God and human of Jesus !

 

[johnnywong]

Great!
Can't agree more!

 

[johnnywong]

an embryo would suggest conception outside of the womb. I think it is of the utmost importance that Christ is conceived in the womb for him to qualify as fully human. Even the slightest moment outside of the womb disqualifies Christ in enduring the complete human experience thus his humanity is put into question. Wasn't this all hashed out in the 5th century anyway?

wrong.
Holy spirit can creat embryo inside Mary.

 

[johnnywong]

Already have.

Jesus the word of God
Became flesh... Read john ch 1.
He is Of the holy Ghost... You know the scripture already.

No one said he has no DNA.
Only that he did not derive his flesh and blood from mary and scripture never states he did.
Your trying to say he is of the holy Spirit And of the flesh of mary. Thats not in the bible..so show your proof.

Exactly.
This is the reason I wrote this thread from the start
God Bless You!

 

[johnnywong]

But Scripture shows us in numerous places that He still had divine power and He used it.

Jesus had power as GOD:

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).

Sure, He did not showboat His own powers. That is part of what Philippians 2:6-9 is saying.



But Jesus was not on His own throne though. He gave it up to save us.



It's not tricky if He was 100% GOD.



That is not proof that He was not his biological mother. I believe Jesus was making a spiritual point by saying this and it had nothing to do with what you are referring to here.



Yet, I do believe the Eternal Logos had suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience, because Luke 2:52 says that Jesus as a child grew in wisdom, and in Luke 24:36, Jesus says to His disciples that He does not know the day or the hour of His own return.



Jesus had to have the same kind of flesh we had otherwise salvation would not work.
For if Jesus took on horse flesh, then He could not redeem mankind.
Jesus had to take on the flesh of Adam to reverse the curse of what Adam had done to humanity. Jesus bore our sins within His body to pay the price for our sins. This had to be within the body of Adam's lineage. For in Adam all die, but in Christ all shall be made alive.



I believe that Jesus operated by the power of the Father, and the Holy Ghost at different times; But Jesus also operated by His own power, too (during his earthly ministry).



Right, which is why I believe in two possibilities in explaining the nature of Christ's divinity and humanity. I believe the Hypostatic Union is one possibility. However, the second possibility seems more likely to me (Although I cannot claim to know for sure based on the vagueness of the text). Anyways, if you are interested here is the thread.

CF Thread - Two Possibilities in Explaining Christ's Divine Behavior & His Limited Human Behavior.

He used it.
But every time he shows us he ask his father first.
This means he delicate the power temporarily to the father in order to set us an example to follow the steps of Jesus.