Jesus fully human without a sinful nature

[Carl Emerson]

Hi there,

I have struggled on another thread to suggest that Jesus was perfect in every way - didn't inherit original sin as we do - didn't have an 'unredeemed nature' as we do.

In that sense He didn't experience the war between the Spirit and the flesh that Paul described.

I do believe He was fully human but as a second Adam was not tainted by the fall

I believe that on the cross he took on all original sin and the sins of mankind.

So if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the flesh - Jesus didn't experience that before the cross as He had no deeds of the flesh to put to death.

If I am correct, then all His temptations were from outside Himself. Otherwise He would not be perfect.

Open to correction - please comment.

 

[NomNomPizza]

Hi there,

I have struggled on another thread to suggest that Jesus was perfect in every way - didn't inherit original sin as we do - didn't have an 'unredeemed nature' as we do.

In that sense He didn't experience the war between the Spirit and the flesh that Paul described.

I do believe He was fully human but as a second Adam was not tainted by the fall

I believe that on the cross he took on all original sin and the sins of mankind.

So if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the flesh - Jesus didn't experience that before the cross as He had no deeds of the flesh to put to death.

If I am correct, then all His temptations were from outside Himself. Otherwise He would not be perfect.

Open to correction - please comment.

you forgot virgin birth right

 

[Bobber]

Hi there,

I have struggled on another thread to suggest that Jesus was perfect in every way - didn't inherit original sin as we do - didn't have an 'unredeemed nature' as we do.

Correct he didn't. Please comment on though Carl on the fact that Adam and Eve before the fall didn't have a fallen nature either. How is it therefore that they could sin. I don't know just asking and wondering what others might say.

 

[Carl Emerson]

you forgot virgin birth right

Why do you say that?

Without the virgin birth Jesus would have had original sin, His blood was perfect from above.

Correct he didn't. Please comment on though Carl on the fact that Adam and Eve before the fall didn't have a fallen nature either. How is it therefore that they could sin. I don't know just asking and wondering what others might say.

They fell to the deception, lies and temptation of the Devil, Jesus didn't.

Adam and Eve did not have His indwelling Word.

Jesus had the indwelling Holy Spirit from birth.

 

[ewq1938]

Hi there,

I have struggled on another thread to suggest that Jesus was perfect in every way - didn't inherit original sin as we do

No one inherits sin. We simply sin our first sin and that creates a "fall" that's personal to the person who sinned. Jesus was born without sin like we all are but the difference is that he never had that first sin while every other human will.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No one inherits sin. We simply sin our first sin and that creates a "fall" that's personal to the person who sinned. Jesus was born without sin like we all are but the difference is that he never had that first sin while every other human will.

Am I hearing that you don't believe in original sin that all mankind inherits?

 

[ewq1938]

Am I hearing that you don't believe in original sin that all mankind inherits?

As I said, no one inherits sin.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Rom 5:

17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! 18 So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.…

 

[ewq1938]

Rom 5:

Romans 5:12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned

Take note that the above verse is of course correct but this is what many people think it says:

"Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so SIN spread to all men because all men sinned"

That misreading is the basis for the doctrine that Adam's has passed down his SIN to all of us but of course that is not what the verse says. Death is what is passed down to us, and of course that is only because we also sin, "so death spread to all men because all men sinned"

So death is only spread to those who sin, and of course all above the age of accountability have sinned.

Adam's sin is not spread to others making original sin incorrect because that is what it teaches.
Death is spread, but only to those that have sinned.

So a baby is born without Adam's sin and without that spiritual death. When the child ages to accountability and then sins, then that death comes to them and the only way to remove it is to be forgiven.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Rom 5:19

...through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners...

 

[ewq1938]

Rom 5:19

...through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners...

That's why going back a few verses to understand context is important. Death was spread to others, not sin. Anyways, I don't want to keep going back and forth. This is why Jesus was born with no sin nature from Adam because no one is. We become sinners when we start sinning. Babies are born sinless.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The wages of sin is death...

Death comes from sin - Yes?

 

[ewq1938]

The wages of sin is death...

Death comes from sin - Yes?

Death comes from your own sin.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I didn't intend this thread to be about original sin as the matter I would ilke resolved according to the OP is more about if Jesus experienced the war between the Spirit and the flesh like we do...

 

[bling]

Hi there,

I have struggled on another thread to suggest that Jesus was perfect in every way - didn't inherit original sin as we do - didn't have an 'unredeemed nature' as we do.

In that sense He didn't experience the war between the Spirit and the flesh that Paul described.

I do believe He was fully human but as a second Adam was not tainted by the fall

I believe that on the cross he took on all original sin and the sins of mankind.

So if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the flesh - Jesus didn't experience that before the cross as He had no deeds of the flesh to put to death.

If I am correct, then all His temptations were from outside Himself. Otherwise He would not be perfect.

Open to correction - please comment.

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.

If our “nature” was weaker then Christ’s nature, then He was not tempted like I have been tempted.

Christ did have deity dwelling within him unquenched, so if we could keep from quenching the Spirit, we to might remain sinless, after obtaining the Spirit.

With Adam & Eve’s sin knowledge of good and evil came to all of us, so through our conscience we know tons of ways to sin, meaning we all will sin, but that does not mean our “nature” changed as well. With the “nature” Adam and Eve had and only one way to sin they sinned.

Sin itself is not the problem, but unforgiven sin is a huge problem. Sin actually has purpose and is necessary for the unbelieving sinner, to help in him/her fulfilling their earthly objective. Christ could fulfill His objective without sinning, but we need the help sin provides.

Death comes with our sinning, but is death a punishment in and of itself and which death is being discussed?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hi there,

I have struggled on another thread to suggest that Jesus was perfect in every way - didn't inherit original sin as we do - didn't have an 'unredeemed nature' as we do.

In that sense He didn't experience the war between the Spirit and the flesh that Paul described.

I do believe He was fully human but as a second Adam was not tainted by the fall

I believe that on the cross he took on all original sin and the sins of mankind.

So if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the flesh - Jesus didn't experience that before the cross as He had no deeds of the flesh to put to death.

If I am correct, then all His temptations were from outside Himself. Otherwise He would not be perfect.

Open to correction - please comment.

Correct.
It was true temptation, in the beginning of His ministry after His 40 day fast, from Satan, but He did not accept it.
Lastly, we see Him in the Garden.
He did not walk around always being tempted. We see the points of temptation in the instances above.

 

[Taodeching]

No one inherits sin. We simply sin our first sin and that creates a "fall" that's personal to the person who sinned. Jesus was born without sin like we all are but the difference is that he never had that first sin while every other human will.

That is what I was think reading this. We don't inherit sin from Adam and Eve that was on them.

 

[Paul4JC]

One should not stress if we don't fully understand this. Almost like "It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." We are learners, as disciples.

[1Ti 3:16 NIV] Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.


I believe it has to do that he had to experience our humanity fully [starting with being a baby, a toddler, to a little boy, to a teenager, and young adult, to full mature adult], in every way single way possible, "yet without sin." His humility to do this is beyond what we humanly understand. To "learn obedience." Yet he "passed" all trials and temptations, and sufferings, and agonies for us, in perfect "reverent submission."

[Heb 5:5, 7-9 NIV] 5 In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father." ... 7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

 

[disciple Clint]

Hi there,

I have struggled on another thread to suggest that Jesus was perfect in every way - didn't inherit original sin as we do - didn't have an 'unredeemed nature' as we do.

In that sense He didn't experience the war between the Spirit and the flesh that Paul described.

I do believe He was fully human but as a second Adam was not tainted by the fall

I believe that on the cross he took on all original sin and the sins of mankind.

So if by the Spirit we are putting to death the deeds of the flesh - Jesus didn't experience that before the cross as He had no deeds of the flesh to put to death.

If I am correct, then all His temptations were from outside Himself. Otherwise He would not be perfect.

Open to correction - please comment.

Jesus in His human nature was capable of being tempted just as any human, the difference come in two parts, one the human nature of Jesus had a unique relationship with His Divine nature and therefore had a perfect relationship with His God nature, you might think of this as we are sanctified over time His human nature was 100% sanctified so while He felt the temptations He was able to resist. He was also impeccable, He could not sin because He is a Divine person. Hope this helps and is not simply confusing.

 

[Ceallaigh]

A big difference between Adam and Jesus is Adam had no previous experience with anything, not even growing up. Whereas Jesus had pre-existance as part of the God-Head, which he apparently had memories of. Adam didn't know Satan. Jesus knew him very well. Jesus had distinct advantages over Adam.