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Jesus forsaken?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by ChristianPilot, Mar 25, 2002.

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  1. ChristianPilot

    ChristianPilot If God is your co-pilot, switch seats!

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    This threw me back when I first read it. It raises up two questions for me.
    1) Did God really forsake Jesus, or is this another lesson taught through a metaphor?
    2) If God did forsake Jesus, why?

    It also says in Luke 23:46 "...Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." at about the 6th hour, meaning it happened before the quote I have above.

    What does this mean?

    PS - If anyone's listened to the song "Chop Suey!" you'll realize the signifigance of those two verses.
     
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  2. Tristan

    Tristan Chilling out

    68
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    Hi CP,

    Jesus was in fellowship with God via the Holy Spirit for a great deal of time. When Jesus was put on the cross He took on the sins of mankind so that they could die with Him, and thus we wouldn't have to take the punishment.

    Because Jesus had the sins of the world upon Him at that point, He was no longer in fellowship with God, because God cannot come into fellowship with that sin. So God had 'turned his back' on Jesus and 'forsaken' Him because Jesus had our sin upon Him. This is how it was explained to me..and it makes sense to me.

    Luke 23:44-46
    44 "And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour"
    45 "And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst"
    46 "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."


    v44 says that it was about the 6th hour, and there was darkness until the 9th hour. To me this implies that the verses after that are at the 9th hour...around the same time He asked God why He had forsaken Him.

    'Into thy hands I commend my spirit' implies to me that Jesus is saying to God that He trusts Him with His spirit, and that sacrifice He was making was for God and not for Himself. (I hope that makes sense!)

    Hope that helps,

    Blessings,

    Tris
     
  3. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

    +287
    Lutheran
    Note too that God "took pleasure" / "delighted" in causing his Servant to be crushed - Isaiah 53:10.
     
  4. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>What does this mean?

    God does not EVER turn His back on a Son of God. Jesus was fully a Son of God, but He was also made to be sin, He was made to be a son of man.

    When Jesus died, the Father turned His back on Him as a son of man, but the Father did not turn His back on Jesus as the Son of God.
     
  5. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
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    Messianic
    Hi Folks

    I've been hanging out just watching the posts for awhile,
    but I must answer this one.

    God never turned His back on Jesus, and had never left Him.
    It's pretty hard to turn your back on yourself....

    Jesus was prophesying on that cross. And you can not have a
    perfect sacrifice if that sacrifice has a blemish. Jesus
    was never full of sin, He was the perfect sacrifice for our
    sin's.

    If you'd like to know what Jesus was prophesying on the
    cross, read Ps. 22

    Jesus was not a son of God, He was/is the only begotten Son
    of God... God Himself, manifest in the flesh...

    If you continue reading Matthew 27 verses 50-54, you'll see
    "TRULY THIS WAS THE SON OF GOD"

    Notice that there were many resurrected, not just Jesus...

    Patrick
     
  6. Dave Ulchers

    Dave Ulchers Active Member

    767
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    No, God never forsook Jesus. As camaro540 points out, Jesus was singing a song on the cross when he died, Psalm 22, which begins "My God my God, why have you forsaken me" and ends with "it is finished."

    Jesus was punished for mankind's sin, because had it not been for the sin of Adam, we would not have crucified him. In that sense his death was inevitable. But Jesus never sinned, and so was never separated from God.
     
  7. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>Jesus was prophesying on that cross.

    Actually, he fufilled the prophecy given by David in Psalm 22. I think your right, we need to read that whole Psalm if we want to try and figure out what Jesus was saying.

    I see the same thing when people come up with all sorts of ideas about what Jesus was saying when He said: "For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched."

    This is a quote from Isaiah and we need to go back and read all of what Isaiah said, rather than to take it out of context the way so many do. Thanks, JohnR7

    Isaiah 66:24
    "And they shall go forth and look
    Upon the corpses of the men
    Who have transgressed against Me.
    For their worm does not die,
    And their fire is not quenched.
    They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
     
  8. ChristianPilot

    ChristianPilot If God is your co-pilot, switch seats!

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    Looks to me like he's talking about hell.
    "For their worm does not die,
    And their fire is not quenched."
    Especially the part about the fire. But thats just what I think.
     
  9. Honeycomb

    Honeycomb Member

    103
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    Protestant
    Jesus was still teaching And fulfilling prophecy at the same time, pointing us to 22 Psalm.


    Only Bible students know this fact, well, most anyways ;)

    I believe Jesus spoke fulfilled the whole psalm, not just the first and last verses.



    Have a Great day :wave:
    Peace & God bless
     
  10. Religious Crisis

    Religious Crisis God is a Consuming Fire!!!

    +26
    Catholic
    Private
    This topic goes way over my head.
     
  11. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    He was forsaken that we might be accepted.

    He cried out "God" for the first time in the NT (showing that He lost that Father-Son relationship) instead of the usual "Father" so that we might call God, ABBA (daddy) FATHER!

    Divine exhanges happened at the cross, not just sin and righteousness.
     
  12. Aikido7

    Aikido7 New Member

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    If one reads the crucifixion accounts in parallel--instead of one after the other--a careful reader of the Bible can easily follow how inspiration manifests through time.

    An overwhelming consensus of scholarship posits that Mark's gospel is the earliest to have been written and that Luke and Matthew had a copy of his account before them when they wrote their own. It is quite easy to see that Luke and Matthew follow Mark's general order, but alter events to fit their own agendas.

    Each gospel account was written by, for and to a different early Christian community. When Jesus dies in Mark, he dies in agony because (as many scholars have pointed out) Mark was written during the Jewish-Roman wars of 70 AD when Mark's community was undergoing unbelievable persecution and tragedy.

    Christianity is a developing tradition and the gospel writers--just as we do today--wanted a LIVING CHRIST, one that was relevant and meaningful to them.

    John's gospel--written about 30 years later--shows a Jesus in total control. He actually asks to drink from the "bitter cup" rather than praying to the Father to spare him the drink. And John's Jesus announces "It is finished!" when he dies. By the time John's gospel was written, the Christian theology was more developed and Jesus has a lot of self-awareness and self confidence in the Father's plan for Israel and the world.
     
  13. ChristianPilot

    ChristianPilot If God is your co-pilot, switch seats!

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    I hear what you're saying Aikido, but I typically like to think that the writers of the Bible were more influenced by the Holy Spirit than their environment.
     
  14. Aikido7

    Aikido7 New Member

    69
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    It is a popular and widespread idea that the apostles were merely robotic channelers of the Holy Spirit. A parallel to this can be seen in 19th century occultists who claimed they were "automatically writing" messages from the "spirit world."

    Some believers carry around an image of a gospel writer "seized up" in a near-trance state and furiously taking down dictation--more like a parrot than a person (or more like a memorizer than a thinker).

    It is hard to believe the writers of the gospels had a life of their own apart from their mission to communicate the words and deeds of Jesus and what his life meant to them! It's almost too complicated and complex to want to think of any other alternative, CP!
     
  15. findtbax

    findtbax Tim Mo

    420
    +1
    [GLOW=limegreen]wow thanks guys for clearing stuff up that i have been somewhat struggling with, that helped a great deal[/GLOW]
     
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