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Jesus dying on the cross

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by he4rty, Aug 21, 2006.

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  1. he4rty

    he4rty Just A Fool For Christ

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    Was having this talk with someone the other day and also when i saw the film "The Passion" I found this question kept arising.

    If Jesus`s death was all about the ressurection then why did he have to endure such a painful and humilating death on cross and with the flogging prior.




     
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  2. JonF

    JonF Sapere Aude! Supporter

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    For resurrection to have it’s meaning Jesus needed to bare the sins of the world. But the flogging, the shame, the humiliation is only the start of what Jesus endured on the cross.

    Matthew 26:46, “About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
     
  3. ThreeAM

    ThreeAM Well-Known Member

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    Satan was trying his hardest to break Christ. Thankfuly Satan failed. It was Satan last chance to win the conflict between God and Satan. If Satan had won there would be no ressurection.
     
  4. Yusuf Evans

    Yusuf Evans Well-Known Member

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    All that pain and all that torture poured out his blood. Since the first sin was committed, a sacrifice had to be made in order to cleanse us. Jesus Christ, the Lord's only Son payed the ultimate sacrifice. His torture, his pain and his death was necesary to cleanse away all those who call on him to repent. Remember John 3:16. "For God so loved the world." It was out of love that his punishment and death was necessary. :crossrc:
     
  5. Wisdom's Child

    Wisdom's Child Seek Wisdom and Understanding

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    When I watched "The Passion" the Holy Spirit came upon me and pointed out something that I found to be very humbling.
    At any time during His ordeal, Jesus could have spoken the words, "Father, they are not worth all of this pain and agony.......come get me"
    And it would have been all over, Satan would be victorious and the world and it's inhabitants all would have been destroyed by legions of angels in judgement for their disobedience.
     
  6. Chronohistorian

    Chronohistorian New Member

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    As Jesus was part of an omnipotent Triune God He may have just switched off the pain anyway
     
  7. Yusuf Evans

    Yusuf Evans Well-Known Member

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    :confused: :confused:
     
  8. Chronohistorian

    Chronohistorian New Member

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    Why the confusion?
     
  9. Wisdom's Child

    Wisdom's Child Seek Wisdom and Understanding

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    :doh:
     
  10. Chronohistorian

    Chronohistorian New Member

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    Doh? Thats a very eloquent answer and gives me much to work on. Thank you.
     
  11. Wisdom's Child

    Wisdom's Child Seek Wisdom and Understanding

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    For that matter none of this would have been needed right?
    the pain, the blood, the suffering, the dying......

    If he "switched off" the pain inflicted by Sin in the world, then it would still be unresolved at this present time.
    Sure, the "wages of sin" may no longer be death, but we would still be in expectation of a good paddling when we enter into eternaty.
    Unbelievers to the left (eternal damnation), believers to the right (eternal thonging) , oh joy!!!
     
  12. Carey

    Carey Contributor

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    He groaned in agony he even asked his father if it were possible not to make him go through what he dreaded.
    I think he fealt the pain. and it was the symbolic of the pain we deserve. For our sins.
    Death was symbolic of course the death of all sin and its consequences without his grace and our accetance of it.
    Revelation Chapter 20 verse 14 and 15 speak of this second death that we can avoid through accepting his grace.
     
  13. Chronohistorian

    Chronohistorian New Member

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    Well if you think about it another way, God is everywhere and within every body, yes?
    So:
    1. God is everywhere
    2. The Romans tortured and crucified a large number of people
    3. God knew what the pain of torture and crucifixion and slow death of all of those people was like anyway
    4. Jesus is a part of God

    There you go, He already had experienced the pain and suffering of countless humans before (and no doubt would continue to do so until they stopped it in 500AD or something)
     
  14. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    Sheece, I'll stick to the bible's rendition.(Rated H for going to Heaven)
    The movie was overacted for many reasons, not all good, but many people were moved to make commitment to Christ.

    It's true that the most important part of the Gospel is that He resurrected.

    ICOR 15: (cf. 1 Thess. 4:13-18)
    12Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.


    I personally was disappointed when I realized that the Gospel was not completely told, by putting so much time and emphasis on the beatdown.....Oowwweee
    If I look at each lash as if it was for each sin I commited, it would've been worse. :cry: :cry: :cry:
    But thank God for Jesus:bow: we must die with Him in baptism so we can live with Him etrnally, that's our lively hope.

    CRIB
     
  15. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    Are you asking this question in the sense of "why all the torture and crucifixation instead of just a straight hanging?"

    peace
     
  16. he4rty

    he4rty Just A Fool For Christ

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    :thumbsup:
    yes that is correct, i understand Jesus died for my sins and i also know he fulfilled OT prophecy but yes why could it not have been a straight hanging.
     
  17. TauLeader

    TauLeader New Member

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    Dear he4rty,

    I like what most of the other members had to say and totally agree with them. One other aspect that arose from the suffering that Jesus endured is that He showed us how to handle suffering, as Peter says in 1 Peter 2:21-24.

    I agree somewhat when ThreeAM posted something about Satan using this event to his own advantage against Jesus. When the Lord Jesus was eventually killed, Satan thought that he had won; too bad for him he didn't read through to the end of the book and saw the Messiah's resurrection. Perhaps Satan, who absolutely hated Jesus, wished for the beatings and so on just for his sadistic enjoyment (given that he is a murderer and hated Christ I wouldn't place it past him). Think about it, if you weren't a Christian and thus weren't commanded to love everyone and you came across someone who you absolutely despise and wanted them dead, wouldn't you want to make them suffer firstly? Satan, I personally believe, thinks like this. This is merely my humble opinion, of course. :)

    One thing that I am sure on is that the additional beatings, scourges, insults, and so on just makes me stand even more in awe of Jesus and His love ... at what He went through just to save you and me. Here was the almighty God of the universe being mocked, spat upon, and beaten bloody, by tiny men who He could have squashed in a single thought. That's just wow, mind-boggling.

    Kind regards,
    Tau Leader.
     
  18. Findabhair

    Findabhair New Member

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    Here's the thing: Jesus' crucifixion is not just about the resurrection. Jesus' crucifixion is about Him suffering for our sins!

    Let me explain:

    Jesus came to Earth to save mankind from eternal damnation which is also known as Sin. That was one of the biggest parts of His mission on Earth. The rest of it was to proclaim God's teachings.
    Jesus knew that in order to save the world from Sin and to give to us the key to Heaven, he would have to endure pain, suffering, torture and mockery from those who hated and despised Him. If Jesus didn't endure this with His Great Love for all Mankind, we wouldn't be saved!!! We condemned Jesus to death with our sins! If the whole point of Jesus' Passion was the Resurrection, we would have to endure extreme pain, suffering and torture before we would be able to enter the Gates of Heaven.

    Here's the great part:

    We don't have to!!! ^_^

    Jesus died and rose for us so that the Scripture would be fullfilled! The only way we could've ever have had the resurrection is BECAUSE of the Crucifixion! He took upon Himself the sins of the whole world and took the punishment for us! That's how He managed to save us! The reason the Resurrection came to be was that by His death and resurrection Jesus could unlock the Gates of Heaven! As it is written in the Gospel of Luke (23:39-43):

    One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

    But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
    Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
    Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

    This was to fullfill all the promises Jesus ever gave us! By dying he renewed the world from Sin. By rising on the third day He unlocked the Gates of Heaven! He took the pain and suffering of death so that we in turn would not have to! If He didn't die and rise again, there would be no Heaven! If Jesus only came to proclaim God's word, then went back to God's House, we would not have had eternal life!

    You see? The death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus go hand in hand!!! If it was not for one, there woud not be the other! Jesus and the criminal that asked to be remembered by Jesus as He returned to His Kingdom were the very first two people that ever graced the Kingdom of Heaven!

    As we say in Mass, "Lord, by your death and resurrection, you have set us free! You are the Savior of the world!" This cements what I said by both the death and resurrection going hand in hand!

    It is truly a blessing and a gift that God sent to the world, His Son, as a human being so that the world can be saved! "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son. That whoever should believe in Him, will not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16
    God Bless!
     
  19. sawdust

    sawdust Well-Known Member

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    I thought so but I hate to be a party pooper because I don't really know the answer. However, for what it's worth I'll say this much......

    You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Rom.5:6

    I think there is another verse that also speaks of Christ coming just "at the right time". It also happens to be the time the Romans were in power and that was their method of execution and punishment.

    What made that time the "right time", I don't know. Although that verse speaks of our powerlessness, we were always like that. It may have something to do with the length of time the Law had been given. It's purpose was to expose the nature of sin and that would make Christ's ending (ie a tortuous and barbaric death) fitting in that sense. If we ever wanted to know just how incredibly awful sin is in it's destructive power, Christ's passion displays it to the max.

    Sorry I can't be much more help. :)

    peace
     
  20. Findabhair

    Findabhair New Member

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    Why not just a straight hanging, he4rty? Well, I'll tell ya: it's because that in the Bible Jesus acknowledges the kind of death He was to die, that being death on a cross. Hanging would be too quick. The reason that Jesus was nailed to a tree was because Jesus was meant to suffer for our sins. If it was just a straight hanging, then the prophecies wouldn't have become Gospel truth. The Word wouldn't have become Law.
    This part in the Nicece Creed should give you a good idea about it:

    "...For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures;..."

    If Jesus were to be hung, then there would not have been as much suffering and Jesus was meant to suffer totally for the sake of mankind for the sake of our sins.
    It was God's plan for Jesus to be crucified. Jesus knew and accepted that fate long before it was to even happen. That is why Jesus is known so well as The Sacrificial Lamb. His blood was shed for the sake of mankind so that mankind could be saved!!!
    Jesus even said somewhere in the Bible that His blood would be shed for the Sin of mankind. Exactly where in the Bible, I couldn't tell ya. But it's there! It also says that Jesus was patient until death, even death on a cross. If Jesus was hung, the blood that was meant to be shed on the cross wouldn't have been shed and mankind would not have then been cleansed from the great Sin.
     
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