Jesus drowns 2-year-old children & he sets them on fire?

[surrender1]

How do you reconcile the flood and the burning of Sodom with the person of Jesus?
(edit to add: I'm amazing at how controversial it is to suggest that Jesus does not drown 2-year-old children and set them on fire)

edit to add:
A friend wrote this and it makes me think:

Let's say God did send a global good to destroy all evildoers: it is absolutely absurd to say every single person on earth was an evildoer.

What did a newborn do to deserve being killed in the flood? A helpless, sinless, harmless, innocent baby. God drowned her. Why? We're not talking about 'all humanity'. We're talking about this specific individual *baby*. What did *she* do to deserve the merciless wrath of God?

If God killed babies, children, or any other innocent person in a global flood, then God is evil. And the theology which defends the murder of babies is an evil theology.

The ends (all evildoers are dead) do not justify the means (kill every person, including the innocent, in order to kill evildoers). Might does not make right. God does not kill children.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

How do you reconcile the flood and the burning of Sodom with the person of Jesus?

There's no need to. Jesus is the Angel of God (the Word of God) in the Flesh...and has already applied wrath upon His own people in AD 70 with the burning destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd Temple, and will yet again with the entire world when He returns. What is there to reconcile?

2PhiloVoid

 

[Sabertooth]

How do you reconcile the flood and the burning of Sodom with the person of Jesus?

God's Love and His Judgment are both intrinsic. His Love engineered a Plan so we wouldn't have to end up on the wrong side of His Judgment.

 

[inquiring mind]

How do you reconcile the flood and the burning of Sodom with the person of Jesus?

Those actions were by God the Father, not God the Son. His judgments are unsearchable and His ways are past finding out (Romans 11:33). The Lord gave and the Lord hath taken away (Job 1:21). I can’t reconcile it; all I can do is trust in the Lord.

 

[Kiwi Christian]

How do you reconcile the flood and the burning of Sodom with the person of Jesus?

Simple. God is just.

 

[Sabertooth]

Even in the Flood, there was an Ark made available. And in the destruction of Sodom & Gamorrah, God evacuated His people. Both of those are a type for Jesus.

 

[surrender1]

There's no need to. Jesus is the Angel of God (the Word of God) in the Flesh...and has already applied wrath upon His own people in AD 70 with the burning destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd Temple, and will yet again with the entire world when He returns. What is there to reconcile?

2PhiloVoid

So Jesus drowns 2-year-olds and sets them on fire?

 

[surrender1]

God's Love and His Judgment are both intrinsic. His Love engineered a Plan so we wouldn't have to end up on the wrong side of His Judgment.

So Jesus drowns 2-year-old children and sets them on fire?

 

[Acts2:38]

How do you reconcile the flood and the burning of Sodom with the person of Jesus?

Its easy if you study scripture and use some sense.

Genesis 6:5 Flood account
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 18 and 19 Sodom account
Chapter 18
20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

This is WHY it was destroyed Genesis 19:4-9

Therefore Genesis 19:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.

However, the Lord would have saved ANY if they were good. See here:
Genesis 18:
22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.

23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:

28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.

29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.

30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.

31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.

32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Now let me talk about what I mean by using "sense".

If I am evil and all I think and do is evil and everyone else is the same as me evil, what are my children going to know and do?

 

[surrender1]

Those actions were by God the Father, not God the Son. His judgments are unsearchable and His ways are past finding out (Romans 11:33). The Lord gave and the Lord hath taken away (Job 1:21). I can’t reconcile it; all I can do is trust in the Lord.

Is Jesus God?

 

[surrender1]

Its easy if you study scripture and use some sense.

Genesis 6:5 Flood account
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 18 and 19 Sodom account
Chapter 18
20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

This is WHY it was destroyed Genesis 19:4-9

Therefore Genesis 19:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.

However, the Lord would have saved ANY if they were good. See here:
Genesis 18:
22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.

23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:

28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.

29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.

30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.

31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.

32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Now let me talk about what I mean by using "sense".

If I am evil and all I think and do is evil and everyone else is the same as me evil, what are my children going to know and do?

So Jesus drowns 2-year-old children and sets them on fire?

 

[surrender1]

Even in the Flood, there was an Ark made available. And in the destruction of Sodom & Gamorrah, God evacuated His people. Both of those are a type for Jesus.

So Jesus drowns 2-year-old children and sets them on fire?

 

[surrender1]

No one has answered the question.

 

[cuja1]

How do you reconcile the flood and the burning of Sodom with the person of Jesus?

It could be that God didn't want to see little children growing up in a society like that of Sodom and Gomorrah and decided to take them home to heaven.

I don't know. Just guessing. Everyone is going to die, it's just a matter of when.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Q1: "So Jesus drowns 2-year-old children and sets them on fire?"
A1: No. Of course not.
OT ECONOMY: God JUSTLY poured His wrath on the wicked who rejected Him.
NT ECONOMY: "substitutionary atonement'
" Substitutionary Atonement "

Substitution = e.g. "huper" / ...Jesus died FOR you...in your place

2 Corinthians 5:21,
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin "on our behalf", that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him."

Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once FOR all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

1 Peter 3:18 -
"For Christ also died FOR sins once FOR all,
the righteous (Jesus) FOR the unrighteous (Man),
that he might bring us to God" (reconciliation)

1 Peter 2 (NASB)
21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered FOR you, leaving you an example FOR you to follow in His steps,
22 (Jesus who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;
23 and while being reviled, He did not revile in return;
while suffering, He uttered no threats,
but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; FOR by His wounds you were healed.
25 For you were continually straying like sheep,
but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

Atonement = basic meaning of RECONCILIATION....work of redemption on behalf of ...

"Atonement" = at-ONE-ment = spiritual reconciliation and other benefits of salvation...
...some spiritual act that "pays for" / redeems Man from his sin nature / sin / sin(s)
...the penalty due to Man's sins are avoided
...action decreed by God for the re-establishment of a positive relationship between Man (the sinner) and Himself (the holy God).

The OT is replete with a myriad of ritual laws to cover the sins of Israel.
The word is used ONCE in the KJV of the NT.

Romans 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

the atonement. ...Greek2643....katallage....adjustment of a difference, RECONCILIATION, restoration to favour

Romans 5: 6-11 (NASB)
For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died FOR the ungodly.
For one will hardly die for a righteous man;
though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died FOR us.
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

 

[surrender1]

It could be that God didn't want to see little children growing up in a society like that of Sodom and Gomorrah and decided to take them home to heaven.

I don't know. Just guessing. Everyone is going to die, it's just a matter of when.

Still. That means that Jesus drowns little children and sets them on fire.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So Jesus drowns 2-year-olds and sets them on fire?

Sometimes God's judgement includes that. But, He also includes 12 year olds, 22 year olds, 32 year olds, 42 year olds, 52 year olds, 62 year olds, 72 year olds, 82 year olds, 92 year olds, ....and I'm sure a few 102 year olds. What's the difference? A human being is a human being; and human beings in a sinful culture are just that ... human beings in a sinful culture.

So, don't insinuate all this boo-hooing. Judgement can come upon any of our houses...mine included...if we don't turn away from sin. Sad, but true.

2PhiloVoid

 

[surrender1]

Simple. God is just.

So Jesus drowns little children and sets them on fire?

 

[surrender1]

All who have answered need to be honest with your own theology and answer "yes" but no one seems to be able to bring themselves to do it.

 

[surrender1]

Sometimes God's judgement includes that. But, He also includes 12 year olds, 22 year olds, 32 year olds, 42 year olds, 52 year olds, 62 year olds, 72 year olds, 82 year olds, 92 year olds, ....and I'm sure a few 102 year olds. What's the difference? A human being is a human being; and human beings in a sinful culture are just that ... human beings in a sinful culture.

So, don't insinuate all this boo-hooing. Judgement can come upon any of our houses...mine included...if we don't turn away from sin. Sad, but true.

So Jesus drowns 2-year-olds and sets them on fire according to you. Just say it instead of whining that I'm "boo-hooing" when I'm doing no such thing. I asked a straightforward question and would like a straightforward answer.

"judgement can come upon any of our houses...mine included...if we don't turn away from sin."
Little children are expected to turn away from sin lest they be set on fire?!