Jesus drank alcohol?

[Philip_B]

Personally, I have chosen to walk the higher road and abstain from alcohol so as to be an example to others. For the Scriptures say we are to deny ourselves, pick up our crosses and to follow Jesus.

I honour you decision, though I am not sure that the road necessarily has a different elevation, I respect absolutely you right and need to walk the way you have chosen to walk.

Christians met in homes every week to celebrate the Lord's supper. It was a simple meal in remembrance of what Jesus has done for us. They were at a dinner table and not in some church like building with a priest doing chants, etc.

Clearly in the time perhaps until in edict if Milan (314) that was about the only option they had. I would suggest that you be careful about the chants question, because whilst you may not get it, the byzantine and gregorian chants were born out of the the liturgy (laos ergon - the people's work) and as such have a place in the worshipping life of the church. I would rather sing chant that 'I'm leaving on a Jet Plane' for the feast of the Ascension.

First, we do not see the Catholic mass mentioned in Scripture at all. For example: A newspaper reporter reports the facts of a particular event. We do not see the event of the Catholic mass being recorded or described anywhere in Scripture in detail. For if this was to be the ultimate form of worship, why is it completely absent from Scripture?

One of the things I have noted in a number of your posts is a sense of what may be described as being 'anti-catholic'. I accept that there are areas of difference in view, however this does not mean that Catholics are the enemy. The truth is that there is more to unite us, than divide us, and sometimes working on what we agree on can be more helpful. I am not asking you to accept a RCC position on the Eucharistic action of the Church, but perhaps allowing a little more respect in the way you address these issues, for there is so much more that binds us together.

As an Anglican I probably have understanding of the Eucharist that neither of you would care to embrace, however that does not need to rift in great division.

Peace and good things

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I honour you decision, though I am not sure that the road necessarily has a different elevation, I respect absolutely you right and need to walk the way you have chosen to walk.


Clearly in the time perhaps until in edict if Milan (314) that was about the only option they had. I would suggest that you be careful about the chants question, because whilst you may not get it, the byzantine and gregorian chants were born out of the the liturgy (laos ergon - the people's work) and as such have a place in the worshipping life of the church. I would rather sing chant that 'I'm leaving on a Jet Plane' for the feast of the Ascension.


One of the things I have noted in a number of your posts is a sense of what may be described as being 'anti-catholic'. I accept that there are areas of difference in view, however this does not mean that Catholics are the enemy. The truth is that there is more to unite us, than divide us, and sometimes working on what we agree on can be more helpful. I am not asking you to accept a RCC position on the Eucharistic action of the Church, but perhaps allowing a little more respect in the way you address these issues, for there is so much more that binds us together.

As an Anglican I probably have understanding of the Eucharist that neither of you would care to embrace, however that does not need to rift in great division.

Peace and good things

Sorry, I cannot agree with any religion that I feel goes against what the Bible teaches.


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[Caminator]

Moderationists respect a brother's decision to abstain. It is their right to do so, and we know that God leads some that way, especially if they have a history of alcohol abuse, or other issues. They may also abstain for the sake of a loved one or someone in their life who needs them to abstain.

Abstainers also respect a brother's right and freedom to not abstain. They know that it is not wrong or unwise for them to drink, and that some Christians have this freedom before God.

Abstentionists, on the other hand, don't know the Scriptures and do not have enough of the character of Christ to have this respect toward their brethren. They are carnal, and full of their own fleshly and earthly wisdom. They preach as doctrine the commandments of men, and put a yoke of bondage on their brother which does not come from Scripture. They forbid what Christ has not forbidden. Making themselves wise in their own eyes, they have become fools.

In their attempts at proving their case, they usually appeal to experience, i.e., the damage observed in the past, statistics about the damage abuse has caused, or concerns about what could happen in a weak moment, etc., because the Bible is not good enough for them. God forgot to say some things that need to be said, so they will say it.

Or else they twist the Scriptures, nullifying whole sections dealing with alcohol, such as Rom. 14, or suggesting that John the Baptist was not allowed to drink grape juice, but Jesus did - nonsense - it was alcoholic wine. Abstentionists are nothing but Judaizers and Pharisees of our age, and we should not listen to them. They do not have the wisdom of God.

We would not have all the references to drunkenness in Scripture that we see if the wine Jesus drank was not alcoholic.

If it is wrong, or unwise, to drink alcoholic wine, then you do not have a Savior.

 

[Philip_B]

Sorry, I cannot agree with any religion that I feel goes against what the Bible teaches. ...

It probably doesn't matter, however I do not understand the remark.

 

[Open Heart]

That would be obvious. Forgive me though because I am slow to understand, what is your point?

I thought you were advancing this as a way to stop fermentation. The source you quoted stated that if you take it out of the cold water after 30 days, that it would STAY GRAPEJUICE for a whole year. OUTSIDE the water. I assumed that since you quoted it, you believed it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It probably doesn't matter, however I do not understand the remark.

I am restricted here on this forum from giving you a response on this (without holding anything back).


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