Jesus Died for. . .

Who did Jesus die for?

  • Everyone, and everyone knows that!

    Votes: 10 66.7%
  • Some, and only some people know that.

    Votes: 5 33.3%
  • None, and I'm the only person who knows that.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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    15

Sultan Of Swing

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Limited atonement is probably true, but often deeply misunderstood and it is not something I see in Scripture as a major theme or even much of a theme at all. It derives more from logical deduction of the other letters of TULIP, though there do seem to be verses in support, like Jesus dying for His sheep, etc.

Personally I don't see it as a major issue either way, it is not a doctrine that keeps me up at night. Total depravity, unconditional election, irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints seem far more important in my mind and far clearer in the Scriptures.
 
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twin1954

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Particular Redemption

Let me begin by saying I am not very fond of the term “limited atonement’. All but Universalists limit the atonement in some way. I prefer the term “Particular Redemption” as it speaks more plainly to the teaching of the Scriptures and leaves less room for misunderstanding. I will take as my text John 10:11. I am the Good Shepherd: the Good Shepherd giveth His life for the sheep. Now if that were the only passage of Holy Scripture that speaks to the doctrine of a definite and particular redemption we would still be bound to believe what it says. There seems to me to be absolutely no wriggle room in this statement by our Lord.
I want to speak to this issue from 3 perspectives as the Scriptures speak: Christ as our Surety, Christ as our sin bearer and Christ as our substitute. It is my purpose to show how and why we can trust Christ’s work for all our salvation.
A proper understanding of the atonement of Christ is crucial to the Gospel. There really is no Gospel without it. Let me see if I can explain: The good news of the Gospel lies in the truth of what Christ accomplished on the cross. Either He, by His death, actually accomplished redemption for someone or His death really means nothing. Where is the good news in an atonement that didn’t atone? Where is the wonderful message in a redemption that that didn’t redeem? How can a sinner look to a Savior with confidence who didn’t actually save? The only hope a sinner can have is that Christ did actually make an atonement for his sin. This is the ground of assurance we preach and believe. Our hope is in the finished work of the Savior.
Now our text says that the Good Shepherd gives His life for the sheep. No one took His life, they had neither the authority nor power to do so, He gave it up for the sheep. He repeats the fact that He lays down His life for the sheep again in verse 15 of John 10. He makes it even more plain in verses 17and 18 of the same chapter. He told Pilate that he had no power over Him unless it was given him from above. (John 19:11) Christ laying down His life for the sheep was a voluntary act on His part. There was no force or coercion involved. Infinite love and fathomless mercy toward the sheep moved Him to act.

A question?
This brings us to a question: How is it possible that Christ could voluntarily lay down His life for the sheep? It is true that no court in the world would allow such a thing. No righteous judge could possibly put to death an innocent person. God says in Proverbs 17:15, He that justifieth the wicked and he that condemeth the just, even they both are an abomination to God. How then can God be righteous and put to death that One who was holy, harmless, undefiled and separate from sinners? The answer rests in the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ was no mere man. A mere man has no authority to lay down his life because his life doesn’t belong to him. All men answer to a higher authority, God, and have no right to give that which doesn’t belong to them. That isn’t the case with Christ. As God, He has every right over His own life and may give it as He pleases. He alone is able to lay down His life for the sheep. The word translated power in John 10:18 is authority.
Are you still with me? I know I have taken the long way around to get here but I believe it was necessary to lay a foundation in order to properly grasp the meaning of Scripture when it speaks of Christ’s atonement. So with what has been already said in mind lets now look at 3 ways the Bible speaks of Christ. I hope to answer the question as to how God can righteously put to death His darling Son in the place of chosen sinners. Once that has been answered we are able to see that the death of Christ on the cross was for the sheep alone.

Continued:
 
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twin1954

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Continued:
A Surety.

The writer to the Hebrews tells us in 7:22 that Jesus was made a surety of a better covenant. What is a surety? The modern idea of a surety is like a co-signer on a loan but that isn’t the Scriptural concept. We have 2 examples given for us that will take us a long way in understanding what the Scriptures mean by a surety. The first is in Gen. 43:9. Judah becomes a surety for Benjamin. As a surety he agrees to bear all the blame for any failure. He takes upon himself full responsibility and by doing so relieves Benjamin of guilt for his failure to return. The second we find in Philemon 18. Paul became a surety for Onesimus. In essence Paul is saying that his debt is mine, I make it mine and agree to repay all he owes. Because Paul became surety no debt could be charged to Onesimus. He must go free. The debt is now Paul’s to repay. Onesimus no longer owes anything to Philemon. So we see that a surety doesn’t agree to pay only the part that is left unpaid, as a co-signer, but takes the whole debt in its entirety. The debt becomes solely his who is surety and that one for whom he becomes surety must go free because he no longer owes anything.
In the Covenant of Grace, made between the three persons of the Godhead before the foundation of the world, Christ became Surety for all that the Father gave Him. (John 6:39) As the Great Shepherd of the sheep He took full responsibility for them and must bear the blame for any that are lost. As their Surety He guarantees their safety and must bring them into the sheepfold. (John 10:16) If He fails to do what He agreed to do then the blame isn’t on the sheep but on Him. Again, as the Surety of the sheep He took all their debt as His own. In that everlasting covenant ordered in all things and sure He said, “Whatever they owe I will repay. They must go free.” Justice no longer can seek satisfaction from them, they have a Surety. The creditor can no longer require payment from them, they have a Surety. They are free from all debt and blame; their Surety has taken it as His own. We have a beautiful picture of Christ our Surety when the men came to take Him in John 18:7,8. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
There are some in this world who are not the sheep for whom Christ became Surety. In verse 26 of John 10 we find our Lord telling some men that they believe not because they are not His sheep. He was neither their Surety nor their Shepherd. If He had been He couldn’t have said those words to them.
This thought ought to strike terror in the heart of unbelievers. How awful it will be to stand before the judge of the whole earth without a Surety. No wonder it is said in Rev. 6:16 that they will cry for the mountains and the rocks to fall on them and hide them from the wrath of the Lamb. Do you have a Surety? If you believe on Him who is the Surety of a better covenant you do. Trusting Him alone as taking your debt and making it His own is evidence that He is your Surety.

A Sin Bearer.
Next I want us to look at Christ the sin bearer. There are several passages of Scripture that speak of Christ bearing sin. Probably the most well known is Isa 53. In verse 6 we read that the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all. In verse 11 we read that He shall justify many for He shall bear their iniquities. And in verse 12 we read He bare the sin of many. In what way did Christ bear sin?
Sin incurs guilt. If I rob a bank it makes no difference whether I am caught I am still guilty of bank robbery. I have committed a crime and deserve the just reward of my deed. I bear the guilt for my crime. Peter tells us in 1Pet. 2:24 that Christ bore our sins in His own body on the tree. The great mass of guilt that was the burden of all the elect of God He took upon Himself. He bore it as a burden that was His own. He suffered under the heavy weight of it. The guilt of sin was imputed to Him in an act of justice. We read that the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all. A transfer was made from the sinner to the Savior. (Remember what I said about Christ being the only one who has the authority to do such a thing) We have this typified for us in the scapegoat. Lev. 15:21,22
We read that Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the scapegoat
confessing the sin of the people putting them on the head of the goat typifying a transfer of guilt. In verse 22 we find that the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities. The scapegoat is then led away by the hands of a fit man (I love the way the KJV puts it) into the wilderness and let go never to be seen again. In the same way Christ, as our scapegoat bearing the sin of His people, has born sin away so thoroughly that God says of it that it shall be looked for but shall not be found. Jer. 50:20 He bore it away as far as the East is from the West. How far is that? North meets South at the poles but East never meets West. You may travel East forever without ever traveling West. He has removed our sin so completely that even God who sees everywhere can’t find it. He carried it away in His own body on the tree, blotting out the handwriting of ordinances against us taking it out of the way nailing it to His cross. In Hebrews 1:3 we read that He has (notice it is past tense) purged our sins. That means it is completely removed and no longer exists. When you purge something not even a small remnant of it remains. It is gone. Even the sin that I do today and will do tomorrow is gone. Christ bore it away.

A Subsitute.
Next is Christ our substitute. The passage that speaks to this is 2Cor. 5:21. I will be the first to admit that the word substitute isn’t in the Scriptures but certainly the idea is. 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. An old preacher friend of mine once said, “ God must first do something for Himself before He can ever do something for the sinner.” We said earlier that sin incurs guilt. There is something else that sin incurs; it incurs the wrath of a holy and just God. He cannot just overlook and forgive sin. We are able to do that because we are ourselves sinners in need of forgiveness. He has sworn and will not go back that the soul that sins must die, Ezek. 18:4. Strict unbending justice demands the death of the sinner and before mercy can be granted justice must be satisfied. If God were to be merciful and forgive sin without satisfying the demand of strict justice He would cease to be God. His holiness and righteousness would fall to the ground. In Psa 85:10 we read that mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. There is only one way this can ever take place: in Christ our substitute. God hath made Him to be sin for us!
Can it be true? Was Christ made to be sin? Yes it is because He was. Remember what we said about no righteous judge putting an innocent man to death? The act of imputation that took place was no mere pasting on but a transfer of guilt. He didn’t just carry our sin it became His. He took it as His own and died under the wrath of God because of it. With one tremendous draft of love, He drank damnation dry. Again I refer you to 1Pet. 2:24. We read that He bore our sin in His own body on the tree not on His body. Psalm 40 is generally accepted as a Messianic Psalm. It is interpreted as Christ speaking. Hear what He says in verse 12: Psa 40:12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me
The Lord our Savior Jesus Christ satisfied all the demands of justice against the sin of all for whom He was the substitute. He stood in their place and suffered as a sinner until wrath was spent and could no longer rise up against His people. God can never again punish any for whom Christ was the substitute. God can never be wrathful against any sinner for whom Christ died. He may, in love, chastise and correct them but never again punish them. God did something for Himself in order to be merciful to sinners. He exhausted His wrath against the sin of His elect and satisfied His strict justice in a perfect substitute.

Conclusion.
There are more ways that Christ is spoken of in the Scriptures having to do with atonement by Him that I haven’t dealt with: propitiation, redemption, ransom, Passover, sacrifice, the Lamb of God and Jehovah’s Servant. All of which, when properly understood, speak of Him doing something for a particular people. Christ laid down His life for the sheep. There are no hypotheticals involved. As the Surety of His people He made their debt His. As their sin bearer He has removed their sin. As their substitute He stood in their place and put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. By His own blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb. 9:12
In light of these things the objections raised pale by reason of the glorious truth that Christ is the Savior.
 
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Jeshu

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Psalms 22:27-31, Psalms 64:9, Isaiah 25:7-8, Daniel 7:14, Luke 3:6, John 12:31-32, Acts 3:25, Romans 5:18, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 4:9-10, Titus 2:11, Colossians 1:20 and 1 John 2:2

The Bible clearly says that all people are saved, even those who died because they could not keep themselves alive

Yet Hebrews 4:12-13 and Revelation 20:12-13 is going to remain true as ever.

Jesus is going to separate the sheep and the goats from within us that is how He is going to judge humanity. Those who sinned without the law will perish just as much as those who sinned under the law and those who did right without the law will be saved just as much as those who did right because of the law. For it are not the hearers of the law who are saved but the doers of God's law who are righteous. God is a just God so only those who sin shall die, while the righteous killed by the liars within human hearts all lie in death to await the Resurrection of the death! Isaiah 57.

Romans 2:12-16
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

So yes is spot on when He says one will be taken one will be left behind - for the goats in us will gnash their teeth while the sheep in us will be freed and find eternal bliss.

Matthew 25:31-46
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’


“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’


“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’


“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’



“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’


“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’


“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
 
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John Hyperspace

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I believe, all.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

So if the Son quickens whom He will; and God will have all men to be saved: then: 1 Corinthians 15:22 and Philippians 2:10 bringing us to 1 Corinthians 15:28 which is shown also by way of:

Matthew 8:2-3 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

So 1 Timothy 4:10 noting that there is a "special"ness or "chief"ness to them who now believe: 1 Timothy 5:17
 
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twin1954

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I believe, all.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

So if the Son quickens whom He will; and God will have all men to be saved: then: 1 Corinthians 15:22 and Philippians 2:10 bringing us to 1 Corinthians 15:28 which is shown also by way of:

Matthew 8:2-3 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

So 1 Timothy 4:10 noting that there is a "special"ness or "chief"ness to them who now believe: 1 Timothy 5:17
Your first mistake is to take verse 4 of 2Tim. 2 as teaching that God desires all men, without exception, to be saved. The context clearly shows that Paul is speaking of all kinds of men; Kings and those in authority. It cannot in its context mean any other thing. If it does it leads to the conclusion that you have espoused which is certainly against the teaching of the Scriptures as a whole.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Your first mistake is to take verse 4 of 2Tim. 2 as teaching that God desires all men, without exception, to be saved. The context clearly shows that Paul is speaking of all kinds of men; Kings and those in authority. It cannot in its context mean any other thing. If it does it leads to the conclusion that you have espoused which is certainly against the teaching of the Scriptures as a whole.

Well said. Context, content, context.
 
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Jeshu

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Well said. Context, content, context.

Context? you might as well say twist the bible to be a lie surely?

How can context apply to this?

1 Timothy 4:9-10
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Context? you might as well say twist the bible to be a lie surely?

How can context apply to this?

1 Timothy 4:9-10
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Do you understand what the word context means? You've just posted the same small clip of text.

Context means looking at the texts before, after and in other areas of the entire library we call the Bible.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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1 Timothy 4:9-10
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Jews and gentiles.

You do understand that the word "all" can mean something other than without exception, right? One simple example : All of NY came out to see the pope. . .


Now the crowd that was with him when he called Lazarus from the tomb and raised him from the dead continued to spread the word. 18 Many people, because they had heard that he had performed this sign, went out to meet him. 19 So the Pharisees said to one another, “See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!”

Did the "whole world" go after Jesus?
 
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jimmyjimmy

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If you want to be saved a sinner then you best grant the same desire to your neighbour isn't brother? Or is our Lord Jesus wrong to ask us to love our neighbour as ourselves you think? I know that Jesus warned me that if I would judge my neighbour to hell I would end up there one day. I didn't heed Him and judged my neighbour anyway and ended up in that fire fro a bit when He came to visit me who judged my neighbour within myself. Jesus taught me to respect His advise and His word. He sure changed my mind about people going to hell forever! Just ponder on Revelation 20 for a bit when you get stuck.

Peace


Ill share you an article where I explain how I read Scripture with regards to salvation.

Humanities Salvation

Psalm 86: 11-13 Teach me your way, Lord,
that I may rely on your faithfulness;
give me an undivided heart,:pray::pray::pray:
that I may fear your name.
I will praise you, Lord my God, with all my heart;
I will glorify your name forever.
For great is your love toward me;
you have delivered me from the depths,
from the realm of the dead.


Every Christian believer knows that God is Spiritual. Not many realize; however, that we have a spiritual side as well. We are a spirit existing in and through the life giving Spirit of God.


Gen 2:7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Not only did God make us living beings, as humans we all proceed from Him, truthfully all people are His offspring (Acts 17:28)

It is for this reason that The Word warns us about what kind of spirituality we walk with. For not only is God Spiritual, the Devil is spiritual too and we can put our life in his spirituality as well. Now life in The Spirit of God is Eternally Good and life giving, but the spirituality from the devil is mortal, debase, dysfunctional and deadening.

It should therefore come as no surprise that death and dying is being cut off from that life giving Spirit of God. Indeed our lives can only have existence in Him; however spirituality from Satan has been thrown out of Heaven and can only have existence for a life span on this earth after which it is judged and thrown in the pool of fire.

Rev 20:11-15 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

The truth is that our spirits belong to God. He has given shape to us and invested much time and effort in us! (Psalm 139) Not only that, He paid for us (1 John 2:2) and saved us from eternal hell.

1 Tim 4:9-10 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

I believe that God harvests the human spirit from all the good spirituality that people have heeded. Spirituality that had originally been sown by His Spirit into peoples hearts. Loving and caring spirituality , for example, or times of compassion or kindness - all good comes from Him and so God harvests each soul where all that is good in a persons life is taken from them! While bad is left behind to receive judgement. (Matt 25)


More than that!

An unbelieving person has existence in lies, lies that kill true being and raise false being up instead. The righteous die but no one takes notice! Isaiah mourns in Chapter 57. Indeed the righteous die to be spared from evil but the offspring of the wicked stands condemned! (Is 57)

Is 57:1-4 The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.
“But you—come here, you children of a sorceress,
you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes!
Who are you mocking?
At whom do you sneer
and stick out your tongue?
Are you not a brood of rebels,
the offspring of liars?


When God harvests our souls then He judges untrue being and brings true being back to life. So effectively, He saves even the soul of the atheist by judging the atheist who had life in lies and putting that spirituality to death. After which He raises the true person, which the lies of Satan killed, from the dead and gives that one charge over the spiritual being that God saved through Jesus Christ. In this way the atheist will still be judged for his or her foolish beliefs! Nevertheless the true person that the atheist had put to death within receives all the good things that the atheist had stolen from him or her. Untrue being punished and gone, true being restored and in charge. (Rev 19-20)

In this way every person has been saved! Psalms 64:9, Isaiah 25:7-8, Daniel 7:14, Luke 3:6, John 12:31-32, Acts 3:25, Romans 5:18, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 4:9-10, Titus 2:11, 1 John 2:2 and Colossians 1:20. (All praise to Jesus!)

So that The Word speaks true when it prophecies that;


Rom 14:10-12 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.



However, in this way, all that has life in lies dies and is washed off, so nothing of the unbelieving person's reality is saved. Rather what the unbelieving person had put to death or had stolen within their hearts – because they believed lies – is now raised to life and given kingship over that soul.

Rev 20 :1-6 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

As Paul teaches Timothy, the fact that God has saved humanity has special benefit to us believers. For now we can die to the spirituality of the lie and come to life in His spirituality. To be born again means that your soul is being shaped by faith in Jesus, where bad life has turned to good life for salvation.

Jesus is the saviour of all people. Yet not one sinner will escape judgement. All sinners will be judged for their ungodly lives and for murdering the chosen within them. Our God is a just God, who repays people in accordance with what they have done. The wicked will not get away with perverting the hearts and minds of people, rather they shall be judged for it.

Isn't Judgement Day going to be a great Day? When all of us become true beings again, where all untrue self is done away with! I can't wait for that great day of liberation – the liberation of God's children.

You do know that promoting Universalism in this forum is in violation of CF rules, right?
 
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Jeshu

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Do you understand what the word context means? You've just posted the same small clip of text.

Context means looking at the texts before, after and in other areas of the entire library we call the Bible.

I gave you far more than one text but this text proves beyond doubt your arguement is outside of God's truth brother this is why I use it. Scripture is not frightened to explain truth as you can see for otherwise Paul would not be as bold as he is or don't you reckon?

You go ahead and judge your neighbour I've been there and done that. Ouch does that hurt! However we deserve such pain for Jesus did warn us not to crucify Him twice and judging our neighbour to hell instead of loving them like you love yourself is doing that or don't you reckon?

That God's word prove true to be above human reasoning. I believe God at His word and refuse to make parts of it untrue. Jesus Himself says that He will draw all people to Himself, who dares to call our Lord a liar?

Peace.
 
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Jeshu

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You do know that promoting Universalism in this forum is in violation of CF rules, right?

I know that I'm answering your questions? If they have problems with that so be it.
 
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Jeshu

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It's been reported.

It's been reported.
My dear brother that cuts my heart, you were the one asking questions and now you don't want to hear what people have to say.

This is how I feel right now.
Isaiah 24:16
From the ends of the earth we hear singing: “Glory to the Righteous One.” But I said, “I waste away, I waste away! Woe to me! The treacherous betray! With treachery the treacherous betray!”

I do hope you day may be blessed brother, mine hasn't been.

Peace
 
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