Jesus delivered the people out of Egypt

[Jack Terrence]

Novum Testamentum Graece:

For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only DESPOTES and KURIOS, Jesus Christ. Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that JESUS, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

NU text:

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only DESPOTES and KURIOS, Jesus Christ. Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the KURIOS, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Received text:

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only DESPOTES God and our KURIOS Jesus Christ. But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the KURIOS, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Note: In verse 4 the Received text says that God is the Despotes and Jesus Christ is the Kurios, while the other two texts say that Jesus Christ is both the Despotes and the Kurios. In verse 5 the NTG says that Jesus saved them out of Egypt, while the other two say that the Kurios saved them. Now, according ALL texts Jesus Christ is the Kurios (vs. 4), even in the Received text which distinguishes God as Despotes and Jesus Christ as Kurios. Therefore, Jesus Christ is the Kurios who saved them of verse 5.

The conclusion is inescapable. Jesus Christ saved the people out of Egypt. Therefore, He is the Angel who saved them.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Jesus is not an angel. He was made so much higher than the angels remember? He was not an angel of YHWH, He was and is YHWH - epic fail.

 

[1213]

Jesus is not an angel. He was made so much higher than the angels remember? He was not an angel of YHWH, He was and is YHWH - epic fail.

I think that was not epic fail, because Jesus is called Prince, which is like Archangel.

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 5:31

But anyway, I think we should remember that according to the Bible Jesus is man:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

And image of God:

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him were all things created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.
Colossians 1:14-16

 

[Jack Terrence]

Jesus is not an angel. He was made so much higher than the angels remember? He was not an angel of YHWH, He was and is YHWH - epic fail.

The Hebrew Malak means "messenger." Jesus was a messenger.

Now deal with the Jude 4-5 text.

 

[timewerx]

The Hebrew Malak means "messenger." Jesus was a messenger.

Now deal with the Jude 4-5 text.

Jude 1:4-5 has more to do with Modern Christians who think that God's grace allows one to remain in their sins (which may include immorality) and still enter Heaven.

 

[Phantasman]

I don't believe that at all.

The plan of salvation of man was never to give men a nation (land, physical). The Holy Spirit WAS setting up the arrival of the true Word of God before he came though.

Before Christ came, there was no bread in the world, just as Paradise, the place were Adam was, had many trees to nourish the animals but no wheat to sustain man. Man used to feed like the animals, but when Christ came, the perfect man, he brought bread from heaven in order that man might be nourished with the food of man. The rulers thought that it was by their own power and will that they were doing what they did, but the Holy Spirit in secret was accomplishing everything through them as it wished. Truth, which existed since the beginning, is sown everywhere. And many see it being sown, but few are they who see it being reaped.-Philip


The Gospels (all) back this up.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Jude 1:4-5 has more to do with Modern Christians who think that God's grace allows one to remain in their sins (which may include immorality) and still enter Heaven.

What has this to do with the op?

 

[RevelationTestament]

We have been over this many times. The new testament proves that the angel in the burning bush was not Jesus. Now Moses may have seen God, but the angel of the Lord is who appeared in the bush, and delivered the message of YHWH.

 

[alex2165]

Jesus as the Angel of GOD.​

I also believe that it was Jesus-Angel Who guided the people of Israel out of Egypt.
Take a closer look at verse 21, “My name is in Him”. If GOD Father presented someone with His Own Name, this means that such a person will be as GOD Himself.

Exodus 23.20-23
20.Behold, I am going to send an Angel before you to guard you along the way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
21.Be on your guard before Him and obey His voice, do not be rebellious toward Him, He will not pardon your transgressions, since My name is in Him.
22.But if you will truly obey His voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies, and an adversary to your adversaries.
23.My Angel will go before you and bring you in to the land of the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzitess, the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, and I will completely destroy them.

So in this case Jesus indeed can be called as the Angel of GOD.

And the verses below prove that Jesus was with the Hebrews from the very beginning of their formation.

1Corinthians 10.1-4
1.I do not want you to be unaware brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
2.and all were baptized into Moses, in the cloud, and in the sea,
3.and all ate the same spiritual food,
4.and all drank the same spiritual drink, they were drinking from a spiritual Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

Places below also indicate that Jesus was with His Father from the very beginning, before anything were created, and this points too, that He is the very first Creation of GOD.

To Colossians 1.13-15
13.He (Father-GOD) delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the Kingdom of His Beloved Son (Jesus Christ),
14.in Whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15.And He is the image of the invisible GOD (Father), the first-born of all creation.

2Timothy 1.8-9
8.Therefore, do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the Gospel, according to the power of GOD,
9.Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His Own purpose and grace, which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity
(Before the ages began - NRSV and Russian Bible. Before time began - The Gideons Bible. Before the beginning of time - GNB),

1Peter 1.20
20.He (Jesus) was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you,

Revelation 3.14
14.And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the Faithful, and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of GOD says this:

So if Jesus is the very first Creation of GOD, this means that He was with GOD from the very beginning before any other creations. And this also means that Jesus participated with GOD in all His creations.

To Hebrews 1.1-2
1.GOD, after He spoke long ago, to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2.in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, Whom He appointed Heir of all things, through Whom also He made the world.

And it will be no surprise that Jesus Christ also participated and in the Exodus of Hebrews from Egypt, and called by His Father as Angel, means that in this case Jesus served as and Angel of GOD, and was sent by His Father to guide the people of GOD through the desert.

Jesus also known and by other names, and also serviced different purposes and tasks according to the name given to Him.

As Star, Morning Star (Numbers 24.17) (Matthew 2.2.7) (Revelation 22.16)
As Prophet (Deuteronomy 18.15-19) (Acts 3.22-23, 7.37)
As Anointed (1Samuel 2.10)
As Anointed, as King (Jeremiah 23.5) (Zechariah 9.9), as Son (Psalm of David 2.2.6-9.10-12) (Revelation 17.14)
As Priest (Psalm of David 110.7) (Hebrews 5.6, 6.20, 7.17.21.26, 8.1, 10.21)
As Minister (Hebrews 8.2)
As Mediator (Hebrews 8.6, 9.15, 12.24)
As Advocate, Righteous (1John 2.1)
As Shepherd and Guardian (1Peter 2.25) (Revelation 7.17)
As Author and Perfecter of faith (Hebrews 12.2)
As Stone, Cornerstone (Psalm 118.22) (Zechariah 3.9, 10.4) (1Peter 2.4.6-7), Rock, Snare, Trap (Isaiah 8.14, 28.16), (Zechariah 10.4) (Matthew 21.42) (Mark 12.10-11) (Luke 20.17) (Acts 4.11) (Romans 9.33) (Ephesians 2.20) (1Peter 2.6-7)
As Immanuel – (Isaiah 7.10-16, 8.10, 9.6-7)Immanuel - "GOD with us" (Matthew 1.22-23)

Isaiah 9.1-2.6-7
As Light, (Matthew 4.15-16) (Isaiah 60.1-3) (Luke 2.32)
As Son, (Isaiah 7.14, 8.10) (Matthew 1.23),
As Wonderful Counselor, Mighty GOD, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace

As Shoot and as Branch (Isaiah 11.1) (Jeremiah 23.5, 33.15) (Zechariah 3.8, 6.12)
As Teacher (Isaiah 30.20)
As Messenger (Isaiah 41.27)
As Servant (Isaiah 42.21, 52.13, 53.11) (Zechariah 3.8)
As Redeemer (Isaiah 44.6, 48.17, 49.7, 59.20)
As Righteous (Isaiah 53.11)
As Son of man (Daniel 7.13) (Revelation 14.14)
As Faithful and True, Word of GOD, King of king and Lord of lords, Unknown name (Revelation 17.14, 19.11-13.16)
As Lamb (Revelation 5.6, 7.14.17, 12.11, 14.1, 17.14, 19.7.9, 21.9.22-23, 22.1.3)

Concerning burning bush, I don’t know who it was, but it is not really important, but the important thing is that the Moses received message from GOD, and he knew what is waiting for him.

 

[ChetSinger]

The conclusion is inescapable. Jesus Christ saved the people out of Egypt. Therefore, He is the Angel who saved them.

I've seen people make what I think is a good case for the "Angel of YHWH" to be an incarnation of YHWH, who we Christians would now consider the pre-incarnate Christ.

Here are some pages from the Christian Thinktank that explore that, and end up agreeing with you:

http://www.christianthinktank.com/trinity.html

Testing the Trinitarian 'hypothesis'...in the Old Testament


Also, Exodus 23:20-23 was even used by rabbis in the Second Temple period to support a binitarian Godhead. No kidding. From Two Powers in Heaven - Home

Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared.

Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.

“But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

“When my angel goes before you and brings you to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, and I blot them out,

you shall not bow down to their gods nor serve them, nor do as they do, but you shall utterly overthrow them and break their pillars in pieces.

I think this is a cool subject, and I've seen a lot of ink spilled on it recently.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Jesus as the Angel of GOD.​

I also believe that it was Jesus-Angel Who guided the people of Israel out of Egypt.
Take a closer look at verse 21, “My name is in Him”. If GOD Father presented someone with His Own Name, this means that such a person will be as GOD Himself.

People say this until they get shown what the scriptures say, and then they say well it doesn't really mean that.

Jeremiah 33:16
16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness.

Exodus 23.20-23
20.Behold, I am going to send an Angel before you to guard you along the way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
21.Be on your guard before Him and obey His voice, do not be rebellious toward Him, He will not pardon your transgressions, since My name is in Him.
22.But if you will truly obey His voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies, and an adversary to your adversaries.
23.My Angel will go before you and bring you in to the land of the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzitess, the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, and I will completely destroy them.

So in this case Jesus indeed can be called as the Angel of GOD.

No, He is not an angel. He is Elohim.

And the verses below prove that Jesus was with the Hebrews from the very beginning of their formation.

1Corinthians 10.1-4
1.I do not want you to be unaware brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
2.and all were baptized into Moses, in the cloud, and in the sea,
3.and all ate the same spiritual food,
4.and all drank the same spiritual drink, they were drinking from a spiritual Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

Places below also indicate that Jesus was with His Father from the very beginning, before anything were created, and this points too, that He is the very first Creation of GOD.

To Colossians 1.13-15
13.He (Father-GOD) delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the Kingdom of His Beloved Son (Jesus Christ),
14.in Whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15.And He is the image of the invisible GOD (Father), the first-born of all creation.

2Timothy 1.8-9
8.Therefore, do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the Gospel, according to the power of GOD,
9.Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His Own purpose and grace, which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity
(Before the ages began - NRSV and Russian Bible. Before time began - The Gideons Bible. Before the beginning of time - GNB),

1Peter 1.20
20.He (Jesus) was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you,

Revelation 3.14
14.And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the Faithful, and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of GOD says this:

So if Jesus is the very first Creation of GOD, this means that He was with GOD from the very beginning before any other creations. And this also means that Jesus participated with GOD in all His creations.

this is referring to the new world God will create.

To Hebrews 1.1-2
1.GOD, after He spoke long ago, to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2.in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, Whom He appointed Heir of all things, through Whom also He made the world.

And it will be no surprise that Jesus Christ also participated and in the Exodus of Hebrews from Egypt, and called by His Father as Angel, means that in this case Jesus served as and Angel of GOD, and was sent by His Father to guide the people of GOD through the desert.

No. There is not one single solitary place in the scriptures which identify Jesus as an angel. He is YHWH Elohim with the Father.

Jesus also known and by other names, and also serviced different purposes and tasks according to the name given to Him.

As Star, Morning Star (Numbers 24.17) (Matthew 2.2.7) (Revelation 22.16)
As Prophet (Deuteronomy 18.15-19) (Acts 3.22-23, 7.37)
As Anointed (1Samuel 2.10)
As Anointed, as King (Jeremiah 23.5) (Zechariah 9.9), as Son (Psalm of David 2.2.6-9.10-12) (Revelation 17.14)
As Priest (Psalm of David 110.7) (Hebrews 5.6, 6.20, 7.17.21.26, 8.1, 10.21)
As Minister (Hebrews 8.2)
As Mediator (Hebrews 8.6, 9.15, 12.24)
As Advocate, Righteous (1John 2.1)
As Shepherd and Guardian (1Peter 2.25) (Revelation 7.17)
As Author and Perfecter of faith (Hebrews 12.2)
As Stone, Cornerstone (Psalm 118.22) (Zechariah 3.9, 10.4) (1Peter 2.4.6-7), Rock, Snare, Trap (Isaiah 8.14, 28.16), (Zechariah 10.4) (Matthew 21.42) (Mark 12.10-11) (Luke 20.17) (Acts 4.11) (Romans 9.33) (Ephesians 2.20) (1Peter 2.6-7)
As Immanuel – (Isaiah 7.10-16, 8.10, 9.6-7)Immanuel - "GOD with us" (Matthew 1.22-23)

Isaiah 9.1-2.6-7
As Light, (Matthew 4.15-16) (Isaiah 60.1-3) (Luke 2.32)
As Son, (Isaiah 7.14, 8.10) (Matthew 1.23),
As Wonderful Counselor, Mighty GOD, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace

As Shoot and as Branch (Isaiah 11.1) (Jeremiah 23.5, 33.15) (Zechariah 3.8, 6.12)
As Teacher (Isaiah 30.20)
As Messenger (Isaiah 41.27)
As Servant (Isaiah 42.21, 52.13, 53.11) (Zechariah 3.8)
As Redeemer (Isaiah 44.6, 48.17, 49.7, 59.20)
As Righteous (Isaiah 53.11)
As Son of man (Daniel 7.13) (Revelation 14.14)
As Faithful and True, Word of GOD, King of king and Lord of lords, Unknown name (Revelation 17.14, 19.11-13.16)
As Lamb (Revelation 5.6, 7.14.17, 12.11, 14.1, 17.14, 19.7.9, 21.9.22-23, 22.1.3)

Concerning burning bush, I don’t know who it was, but it is not really important, but the important thing is that the Moses received message from GOD, and he knew what is waiting for him.

Let the reader note, that none of these identify Jesus as an angel. Again the NT clearly identifies the being in the burning bush as the angel of the Lord. This should be enough to dispel the modern theory that malak YHWH is Jesus.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Let the reader note, that none of these identify Jesus as an angel. Again the NT clearly identifies the being in the burning bush as the angel of the Lord. This should be enough to dispel the modern theory that malak YHWH is Jesus.

“This Moses whom they rejected, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge?’ is the one God sent to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the Angel who appeared to him in the bush. Acts 7:35


Novum Testamentum Graece:

For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only DESPOTES and KURIOS, Jesus Christ. Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that JESUS, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

NU text:

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only DESPOTES and KURIOS, Jesus Christ. Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the KURIOS, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Received text:

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only DESPOTES God and our KURIOS Jesus Christ. But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the KURIOS, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Note: In verse 4 the Received text says that God is the Despotes and Jesus Christ is the Kurios, while the other two texts say that Jesus Christ is both the Despotes and the Kurios. In verse 5 the NTG says that Jesus saved them out of Egypt, while the other two say that the Kurios saved them. Now, according ALL texts Jesus Christ is the Kurios (vs. 4), even in the Received text which distinguishes God as Despotes and Jesus Christ as Kurios. Therefore, Jesus Christ is the Kurios who saved them of verse 5.

The conclusion is inescapable. Jesus Christ saved the people out of Egypt. Therefore, He is the Angel who saved them.

 

[Phantasman]

Whatever.

When someone tells me something is inescapable, I escape it.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Where's Duckie?