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Jesus Christ Unlimited

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    “We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored.”

    The risen Christ preaches to the dead

    “Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”
     
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  2. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    1. What does unlimited mean?

    2. What does dead mean in koine?

    3. What does disobedient mean in koine?

    4. What is the result of the Risen Christ's ministry to "disobedient dead"?
     
  3. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Limited =

    Confined within limits; restricted or circumscribed.

    Unlimited=

    Not limited>>> unrestricted>>> unconfined.

    Boundless>>>infinite>>>vast.

    The unlimited skies.

    Without any qualification or exception>>> unconditional.
     
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dead=

    nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

    Breathed his last/ lifeless.

    Deceased/ departed.

    Destitute of life/ without life.

    Inanimate.

    Disobedient= apeitheo=

    Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

    To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

    To refuse belief and obedience.

    Not to comply with.

    Live= zao=

    To be alive with resurrection life.

    "Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -Rotherham Emphasized-
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Here's the reference.

    1 Peter 4:5-6 Rotherham Emphasized
    Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; 6 For, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit.
     
  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Steve with St. preceding: Thank you for posting the passage under consideration.

    This is one passage of Scripture that befuddles the average one of our Bible believing species. Is it possible the apostle Peter was discombobulated?

    Or?

    Jesus Christ IS the Unlimited Son of God!
     
  7. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Unlimited Son Of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, preached to even the dead (the nekros). The results were spectacular with a capital S!

    Cause My people to breathe again

    1. The Spirit of the Lord poured out on parched (desert land). -Isa. 32.15-

    2. Give them singleness of heart /a new spirit/ a heart of flesh. -Ezek. 11.19-

    3. Put My Spirit in you / cause you to walk in My statutes (to carefully observe my ordinances). -Ezek. 37.27-

    4. The nations around you shall know I have replanted what was destitute. -Ezek. 37.26-

    5. I will pour out My Spirit on ALL PEOPLE. -Joel 2. 8-

    "Come then the four winds, O breathe breath on these slain, so they may live."
     
  8. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    And you think 1 Pet 3:20 supports your UR argument?
    First the grave or hell is never called prison and prison is never called hell and the grave in the NT. What does "spirits in prison" refer to? Jesus earthly ministry. Jesus' ministry does not include preaching to dead souls in the grave/hell.

    Luke 4:18-19 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
    The Greek word translated "captives" means "prisoner of war." That is who Jesus was sent to set free, not dead spirits in the grave or hell.
    1 Peter 3:19-20 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
    I Pet 3:20 in no way supports UR. The only people saved by Jesus' preaching were Noah and his family, who were alive not dead, and everyone else perished. If Jesus was preaching to the entire world why wasn't the entire world saved?
     
  9. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    "To judge the quick and the dead" future tense. Your interpretation of 1 Pet 4:5-6 seems to be that the quick and the dead were already judged. "Was the glad-message delivered" past tense, to the quick and dead? How about the dead at the time Peter wrote and the dead in the future will the "glad-message" be delivered to them too? Scripture?
     
  10. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Noah was a preacher of righteousness. The net result of his preaching = zero.

    The risen Christ preaching to the dead = 100% success!.

    “Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

    Zoe is rooted in zaō.

    Zoe =

    Zoe - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

    zaō =

    Life, live, quick in the Bible (127 verses). Greek: ζάω, zaō, G2198

    "Who shall render an account unto Him who is holding in readiness to judge living & dead; for, unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered, -in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -J.B. Rotherham Emphasized-

    "For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." -American Standard-

    1 Peter 4:6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

    Dead=

    nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

    Breathed his last/ lifeless.

    Deceased/ departed.

    Destitute of life/ without life.

    Inanimate.

    Disobedient= apeitheo=

    Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

    To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

    To refuse belief and obedience.

    Not to comply with.

    Live= zao=

    To be alive with resurrection life.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2020
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  11. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    The net result of Noah's preaching was 7 not Zero. But your proof text does not support your false conclusion that Jesus' had 100% success.
    1 Peter 3:18-20 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
    Jesus preached and eight souls were saved the entire world was destroyed. First the grave/hell is never called prison and prison is never called the grave/hell. This passage states very clearly where Jesus went. He preached to the people in the days of Noah. That was Jesus' earthly ministry.
    Luke 4:18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
    This says nothing about preaching to dead spirits in the grave or hell. The Greek word translated "captives" literally means "prisoners of war" not dead spirits in the grave or hell.

     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I must confess that I am deeply grieved in my spirit when I meet these would-be Sons of God who look with contempt upon those who still have a passion for souls and desire to see men delivered from the power of the devil. I am aware of the fact that the hour has not yet arrived when God shall deal with all nations, and multitudes of past generations, to bring forth His salvation in them, but it is my deepest conviction that one of the sure marks of sonship is THE SPIRIT OF RECONCILIATION. Why speak of our great hope of what God shall do in the ages to come if THE SPIRIT OF THAT HOPE is not now alive in our hearts? It is not the doctrine of reconciliation that shall change the world, but the MINISTRY OF RECONCILIATION. The ministry of reconciliation springs from the spirit of reconciliation.

    If you would not walk across the street to see some poor soul delivered and converted by the redeeming power of Christ, don't waste your time relating to me how you are chosen of God to help in the delivering of the whole creation from the bondage of sin and death. The Spirit of Reconciliation must reign within our hearts. The Ministry of Reconciliation must issue forth from our lives. Rivers of Living Water must, even now, pour forth out of our innermost being, bringing hope and victory and life to all who will come and drink! Amen!

    Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
    Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1
     
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