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Jesus Christ Truly God Truly man (human)

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by redleghunter, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. Yes

    43 vote(s)
    93.5%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    6.5%
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  1. iam1me

    iam1me New Member

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    Then you disagree with Paul, but ok
     
  2. MournfulWatcher

    MournfulWatcher In the beginning was the Word.

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    There is a lot of nuance in how the word "angel" is used. In Hebrew the word simply means "messenger" and can be translated in different ways depending on the context. The word is sometimes translated as a human messenger. Not all spiritual beings are angels either; cherubim and seraphim are spiritual beings in the heavenly realm but are not the same sort of being as an angel like Gabriel. The context of the passages with the Angel of YHWH suggests that this Angel is identifying himself as God, and people also identify him as God. Contrast that with angels who bring messages to people in the Bible; they often tell people not to worship them because they are not God. The Angel of YHWH does not do this. He claims to be God and accepts the worship and recognition of humans
     
  3. charsan

    charsan Charismatic Episcopal Church

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    No, I disagree with your errant ideas as I do with all evangelicals like you who think that individualism is Christianity. I reject any ideas like yours as very dangerous and poisonous to true Christianity
     
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  4. iam1me

    iam1me New Member

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    You are trying to play semantics. The fact is that Hebrews 1 quite handily dismisses the notion that Jesus is or ever was an angel. Instead Hebrews teaches that Jesus was made a little lower than the angels - fully human - for a time, and was subsequently raised up over and above the angels, over everything except God himself.
     
  5. iam1me

    iam1me New Member

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    You are blatantly ignoring scripture that defines the church as the individuals that compose it. You really wouldn't have liked someone like Jesus or any of the other prophets were they alive today. You would be there with the institution stoning them - like Paul before his conversion.
     
  6. charsan

    charsan Charismatic Episcopal Church

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    No I am ignoring your fault and error filled ideas. This is not on topic do not talk to me anymore Good day sir!!!
     
  7. Athanasius377

    Athanasius377 Is a little right of Atilla the Hun Supporter

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    The position being argued for is the heresy of Socinianism which is basically a tweaking of Arianism. Which I might add was rejected by Luther, Calvin and Zwingli. @redleghunter gave a good response which Rome and and the East agree. Assume Unitarianism and this is where one winds up. Of course it cannot answer Col 2:9. Nor will it try. Somehow fullness means something other than fullness.
     
  8. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    As a theologian friend of mine who worked on the 1995 NASB, “How full does He need to be to convince doubters.”
     
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  9. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    I’m encouraged brother @His student is asking questions as are many others. I was hoping this would be a productive and informative thread and for the most part it has been.

    For Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran and Reformed churches the creeds are reflected in the various catechisms and confessions and taught in Confraternity of Christian Doctrine (CCD) and Sunday Schools to children from an early age. The discipline has also reached many Bible churches at least I can speak of the ones associated with the Reformed Baptists.

    There are a lot of brothers and sisters in Christ who did not grow up in the Faith and as adults join churches which may not have a detailed statement of faith, do not affirm the ancient creeds (Church of Christ Restoration movement) and perhaps those who identify as “non-denominational.

    It was my hope this thread would be a help to introduce the Christology our forebears contended their all to defend.
     
  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    So you are in opposition to traditional churches which ordain homosexuals and marry same sex couples?
     
  11. MournfulWatcher

    MournfulWatcher In the beginning was the Word.

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    He IS above the angels. In the old testament the Angel of YHWH is just a title. It's not just semantics. Your understanding of the cultural context of the word "angel" is flawed. You should really watch the video I linked in my post before last.
     
  12. charsan

    charsan Charismatic Episcopal Church

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    Those are not really Traditional Churches but making a new religion pretending to be Christian in fact becoming pagan. No I do not believe those types are really Traditional Churches but I am sure we can not talk about that type of thing on forums and it is not part of the OP remember :)
     
  13. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Maybe start a thread on the poison of Evangelicals.

    I started a thread asking which Episcopal churches ordain homosexual clergy and “marry” same sex couples.

    Where does the Episcopal Church stand on ordaining and marrying homosexuals?

    This way you can generally bash Evangelicals until satisfied and I can find an answer on why a Traditional church as your own can’t agree on basic Biblical morals.
     
  14. iam1me

    iam1me New Member

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    Angel of the Lord is a title for an angel. You are being silly, it's hard to take you seriously when you can't accept something as straight-forward as Hebrews 1.
     
  15. charsan

    charsan Charismatic Episcopal Church

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    I have no idea what you are talking about I am not Episcopalian or Anglican. My Church does not do these sinful things like the Episcopal /Anglican Church
     
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    You were “Episcopalian Charismatic” last night.
     
  17. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    So was transubstantiation, papal authority, and the veneration of relics - right?
     
  18. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    The same Paul said fullness of Deity as well. So the context of your quote is not about Jesus being lesser. That’s what happens when we search the Scriptures for what we want to prove, instead of the Scriptures speaking for themselves.
     
  19. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Those were later. But probably for another thread.
     
  20. His student

    His student Well-Known Member

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    Before 1000 years ago - was the time frame mentioned by "chevyonthriver" to which I was responding.

    However, the belief in the supremacy and authority of Popes was established well before 1000 years ago in the Western church and, to hear some here speak, was established by Jesus Christ Himself in His statement to Peter.

    The belief in and the "practice" of transubstantiation was an established norm in both branches of the church very early on and, to hear some here speak, was established at the Last Supper.

    The veneration of relics was an established fact in both churches since at least the 2nd century A.D.

    The official adoption of the Trinity, on the other hand, came much later than all three.
    Then it would have been good for "chevyontheriver" to have placed the post mentioning them in another thread.
     
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