Jesus Christ Truly God Truly man (human)

[redleghunter]

I'm not arguing that Jesus was not human, but I would not use the term fully human, to me that is blasphemy.

The Bible does make the distinction He was human but without sin. Would that be something that helps?

 

[devin553344]

The Bible does make the distinction He was human but without sin. Would that be something that helps?

Yes, we must make a distinction between Jesus and mankind, we are sinners, Jesus is not.

 

[devin553344]

He was divine. We are humans on earth but we are not fully divine like Jesus was. Do you understand? Do you know what divine means? He walked as God in human form. He had the holy spirit and God's genetics within him. He was it. Jesus was born of God , we human brings were born of a natural birth, Jesus was born of an immaculate and holy one..

I agree, I believe Jesus was created in a perfect human body without error, but had the spirit of God in him, which would explain the miracles and resurrection of himself. Noting the spirit of God can resurrect like the 2 witnesses: KJV Revelation 11:11-12

"And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."

 

[charsan]

Wow so much heresy, though I should not be surprised

 

[devin553344]

Sorry my error, Jesus was not made, but rather his body was, which is what I was trying to say:

Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[devin553344]

He was like a real angel on earth ..a heavenly being

You should read the Nicene Creed. I posted it in post #32. Jesus is one with the Father, not an angel, but rather God.

 

[klutedavid]

Your position is Jesus was only partially human?

Yes, Jesus did not have a human father. Hence, the genetic derivation was from above and not from the patriarchs.

 

[sdowney717]

Another problem with calling Jesus fully human is the fact that he was able to produce so many miracles, something regular human's cannot do. This included resurrecting himself. Can humans resurrect themselves? Of course not. We rely on God for that.

Actually God raised Christ from the dead, specifically says it was God, the Father.

Acts 3:26
To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 4:10
let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 10:40
Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly,

Acts 13:30
But God raised Him from the dead.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 13:34
And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: ‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’

 

[chevyontheriver]

I go by the Nicene creed. I'm still new to Christianity and unfamiliar with what you're quoting. Jesus was the only begotten of the Father: The Nicene creed indicates Jesus was made (created).

He quoted from the Quicunque Vult (aka Athanasian Creed). There are THREE creeds at the center of Christianity from way way back, the Apostles Creed, The Nicene Creed, and the Quicunque Vult. The Quicunque Vult is the lesser known but it is an equal to the Apostles and Nicene creeds for Christians. Except for the Orthodox, who don't like it because it has the filioque clause in it (in this case 'et Filio'). Lutherans and Anglicans have historically accepted it as a touchstone.

 

[devin553344]

Actually God raised Christ from the dead, specifically says it was God, the Father.

Yes something like that: John 10:18

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Noting that Jesus said he had that power, which was a commandment from his Father.

Therefore Jesus was 'Super Human'.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes something like that: John 10:18

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Noting that Jesus said he had that power, which was a commandment from his Father.

But Christ did not use that power to raise Himself from the dead did He...
Christ in saying that, take up His life again, also means He could have refused the cross.. Yet Christ did His Fathers will and because He was obedient unto death on a cross, you got to have eternal life and not spend eternity in hell.

 

[Toro]

IF Jesus was NOT fully human and NOT capable of sin... then He wasnt TRULY ever tempted... EVER and that would make the Bible false.

After all, IF I have no desire to eat a salad (which I loathe as much as God hates sin) then if it is placed before me.... is it really temptibg me to eat it

Jesus IF not fully man COULD NOT die as a man.

Human beings ARE NOT capable of miracles, but the Spirit IN them is MORE than capable of working miracles THROUGH them.

Jesus humbled Himself by becoming a man, flesh, bone and blood, with all the trials and temptations that come with being as such... otherwise He would NOT understand our struggle.

He took back up the power of deity that was truly His AFTER He overcame and accomplished that which He came to accomplish and in doing so, was a perfect example of who we should strive to be like. To be merciful not judging and condemning, even when we are "in the right" as seen with the woman caught in adultry.

Are we perfect? No, but are we not instructed to take up our cross and follow Him? To deny that which our flesh desires and instead pursue the will of the Father?

Is Jesus better than man? Absolutely... but my saviour is obe that experienced ALL that the flesh and this world has to "offer" and throw at Him and He over came it.

My saviour didnt coast on His diety position skipping over all the trails and temptations of the flesh... knowing nothing of true temptation only to then tell me how I should be, while I do not have the same ability as He has.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes, Jesus did not have a human father. Hence, the genetic derivation was from above and not from the patriarchs.

What about His mom?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Poll up. If no explain your view.

I’m setting this thread up to hear the non orthodox positions. I know they are out there because in General Theology we see them but never explained. Now is your chance.

I also have encountered posters from historically orthodox (little o) denominations which have some doubts but hold to the creeds. Would like to hear why there are doubts.

Thanks.

You ask a very revealing question. I would have suspected actually more deviation from the Athanasian Creed as it is almost unknown in some circles. Not at all to castigate them but we have one person saying Jesus Christ is a created being and another saying he is not fully human. This was a wild doctrine to swallow to say that Jesus Christ is fully God AND fully human. Many people still cannot swallow it. But it is the core of the faith, more fundamental than how we are saved. The question posed by the Gospel of John is 'Who do you say I am?' And the answer is systematically presented in the three creeds. But it is still wild.

Aslan is NOT a tame lion. Don't think he is for petting.

 

[redleghunter]

Wow so much heresy, though I should not be surprised

This is a good opportunity for us to present the faith to new Christians and those just learning.

 

[devin553344]

IF Jesus was NOT fully human and NOT capable of sin... then He wasnt TRULY ever tempted... EVER and that would make the Bible false.

After all, IF I have no desire to eat a salad (which I loathe as much as God hates sin) then if it is placed before me.... is it really temptibg me to eat it

Jesus IF not fully man COULD NOT die as a man.

Human beings ARE NOT capable of miracles, but the Spirit IN them is MORE than capable of working miracles THROUGH them.

Jesus humbled Himself by becoming a man, flesh, bone and blood, with all the trials and temptations that come with being as such... otherwise He would NOT understand our struggle.

He took back up the power of deity that was truly His AFTER He overcame and accomplished that which He came to accomplish and in doing so, was a perfect example of who we should strive to be like. To be merciful not judging and condemning, even when we are "in the right" as seen with the woman caught in adultry.

Are we perfect? No, but are we not instructed to take up our cross and follow Him? To deny that which our flesh desires and instead pursue the will of the Father?

Is Jesus better than man? Absolutely... but my saviour is obe that experienced ALL that the flesh and this world has to "offer" and throw at Him and He over came it.

My saviour didnt coast on His diety position skipping over all the trails and temptations of the flesh... knowing nothing of true temptation only to then tell me how I should be, while I do not have the same ability as He has.

Impeccability is a Christian teaching: Impeccability - Wikipedia

 

[redleghunter]

You ask a very revealing question. I would have suspected actually more deviation from the Athanasian Creed as it is almost unknown in some circles. Not at all to castigate them but we have one person saying Jesus Christ is a created being and another saying he is not fully human. This was a wild doctrine to swallow to say that Jesus Christ is fully God AND fully human. Many people still cannot swallow it. But it is the core of the faith, more fundamental than how we are saved. The question posed by the Gospel of John is 'Who do you say I am?' And the answer is systematically presented in the three creeds. But it is still wild.

Aslan is NOT a tame lion. Don't think he is for petting.

One purpose of why I posted this was for those struggling with the orthodox doctrine and for folks like us with some years under our belt to present the core Trinitarian doctrine and Christology.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Jesus the Christ is God and was always impeccable and incapable of sin. He's not fully human, if he was he would have sinned like all the other humans.

There is no such thing as a half human. This argument I have heard before and am trying to understand what you think Jesus Christ of Nazareth is. Fully divine and fully human is the Christian world view. You are saying He is fully divine and half human? Please explain I really do want to understand.

 

[His student]

I’m setting this thread up to hear the non orthodox positions. I know they are out there because in General Theology we see them but never explained. Now is your chance.

Yes - He was fully human and fully God. I.e. - He was all the fullness of deity manifest in human flesh.

I do not, however, necessarily believe that the Son of God as a separate person to the Father was eternally existent.

It may be more appropriate to see the "Son" title as only becoming pertinent when God became fully human and functioned fully as one of mankind being reliant on God just as are all humans.

I.e. - God as Spirit is everywhere and eternally existent whereas God as Father and Son did not become existent until the incarnation.

I realize that we are able to talk about every conceivable concept here in the forum including heretical views concerning basic salvation by grace.

But we are not allowed to discuss the so called "Oneness" viewpoint over against the "Trinity" model.

So we'll have to leave it at that.

YES - Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man.

 

[☦Marius☦]

I think I would need scripture to back up any view regarding that. We do know from Scripture that man was created in the image of God: Genesis 1:27. And we also know Jesus was in the Form of God: Philippians 2:5-6

But scripture says that Christ was tempted in every way. He overcame sin because of his obedience and wisdom, not his lack of humanity.