Jesus Christ, the Truth, and discernment

[K2K]

In the 20 years that I have known the Lord He has given me lots of information about discerning between good and evil spirits, which is to say those spirits serving the Lord and those serving Satan. Still, I don't feel I have it figured out all that well, but He has taught me a lot.

He wanted me to point out something tonight. He wanted me to point out that He is the Truth!!

It is not the only thing, nor even the first thing to know about discernment, or even the easiest to apply, but it is something that we often miss about discernment. So I will briefly go over what He got from Him.

He is the Truth.

Now we don't always know what is true of not. We probably usually don't know if something is true of not. But if we think something is not true it is wise to question it!

Paul explained that he took all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ. Now I don't. I take many thoughts I have to Him to hear what He has to say about them, but sadly I don't take all my thoughts to Him. What I do try to do is take any thought that may not be true to Him. Do this has been very interesting.

There is often a misconception about Christianity that arises for us Christians not understanding that Jesus Christ is the Truth, and that we need to take our thoughts captive to Him and listen.

An good example of what I am talking about is the case of Galileo. He was arrested for heresy by the Roman Catholic Inquisition in 1633. Now Galileo didn't have everything perfectly figured out, but the Truth was not with his accusers either. The truth is that we are not the Truth, He is.

So often I go and talk to Him and what I find out is that it in not my thinking nor the other persons thinking, but His that is important. So He is forgiving, unlike the "Inquisition", and often me. He is Understanding, where I am not always so understanding.

I almost find it funny that when I talk to Him I found out that the other person is wring and so am I. And even when He tells me, it is not my understanding of what He tells me that is right, but only His understanding that is right. I can ask Him more and get a better idea, but it usually comes down to me not being the Truth, but Him.

There is a phrase you can find that goes "So you will know that I am God." What happens is that He tells you something, if you listen, but you don't fully understand. Then at some point in the future it suddenly comes to pass so you then understand that he knew what was going to happen when He first told you. Then you know that He was the truth, and not you, even though you heard from Him.

So because if happened like He said, though not as your thought, you listen to Him more but you got wiser in that you understand that you are not the truth, He is. Which does mean you can listen to Him and know the truth, meaning you know what is going to know exactly what is going to happen even if you heard from Him. However you can listen to Him and know the Truth, meaning that you know Him, meaning you know Him who knows what is going to happen even if thought you don't.

 

[Jeshu]

Indeed our Heavenly Father is The truth, there is no lie in Him, that is why it looks so bad for humanity which is full of lies, build on lies. That is what His truth will explain we can be truth as well, that is why need to build on truthful thoughts that are based on the truths of scripture and build in love for God and neighbour.

To grow in love and leave loveless times behind is the goal of every believer in Christ's love.

God is love, pure unadulterated love. So unless Christ renews us we are all going to burn up in our bad lives, when we heeded spirituality not from God. e.g selfishness, greed, arrogance, pride in human achievement, lust, dishonesty, envy, hatred against neighbour/Creation and the likes.

It is about letting Christ's love clean us of all of such life in us, so we will walk in God and neighbour loving love in our daily lives.

Peace.

These four articles i wrote almost 24 years ago about unclean spirituality we find in our daily lives, i find them still useful now.

Evil Spirituality 1

 

[Soyeong]

The Torah is truth (Psalms 119:142) and Jesus lived in sinless obedience to the Torah, so he is the personification of the truth.

 

[K2K]

The Torah is truth (Psalms 119:142) and Jesus lived in sinless obedience to the Torah, so he is the personification of the truth.

There is a serious misunderstanding above.

The problem is that Jesus is the Word of God, and He has always been the Word of God.

So - any Scripture that was written by man-kind was written because He (the Christ) talked to them. So He does not live in sinless obedience to the Torah, that is making an idol out of the Bible! The Bible however was written to give us an idea of who He is!

Writings are not alive - I don't really have to prove that do it. Is the paper alive? Does is move? Does it think? Does it grow? Common now - people just get silly and that is absolutely what I am talking about on this thread.

If someone tells you ink on paper is alive it should be obvious that is a lie. Still, you should take it to Jesus Christ, because He is the truth and His sheep hear His voice.

So what would He tell you? The truth obviously! He might take you to the Bible to confirm what He is saying because the Bible is good for reprove, and teaching. So perhaps He takes you to Jn 5 where you can read that the Jews during His time were searching the Scriptures thinking in them they had life instead of coming to Him, and also that they did not actually believe the writings of Moses so how were they going to hear His words, since Moses had told them that the word of God was near them, in their hearts and mouth, so not on writings.

Jesus is the Christ! He has been around from the beginning. All things were created through Him, so He is not the personification of the sacred writings. That is obviously not correct. It is not true, and if you are saying that then you are not talking your thoughts captive to Jesus Christ, but have been leaning on your own understanding, and not even the understanding in the Bible.

 

[K2K]

Indeed our Heavenly Father is The truth, there is no lie in Him, that is why it looks so bad for humanity which is full of lies, build on lies. That is what His truth will explain we can be truth as well, that is why need to build on truthful thoughts that are based on the truths of scripture and build in love for God and neighbour.

To grow in love and leave loveless times behind is the goal of every believer in Christ's love.

God is love, pure unadulterated love. So unless Christ renews us we are all going to burn up in our bad lives, when we heeded spirituality not from God. e.g selfishness, greed, arrogance, pride in human achievement, lust, dishonesty, envy, hatred against neighbour/Creation and the likes.

It is about letting Christ's love clean us of all of such life in us, so we will walk in God and neighbour loving love in our daily lives.

Peace.

These four articles i wrote almost 24 years ago about unclean spirituality we find in our daily lives, i find them still useful now.

Evil Spirituality 1

I like the above post! There is one thing that we need to be careful about though. We are not Jesus Christ!!

That should be obvious, and I don't really think we really believe that. You certainly don't if you have been listening to Him. It becomes pretty obvious pretty fast that His thoughts are not your thoughts when you spend even a little time talking to Him.

Now that doesn't mean that we are not trying to follow His lead, but only that we are never going to be Him. Maybe a bit like Him but not Him. We are going to be like the angels in heaven, and honestly if you do spend some time talking to Him and even the the angels He sends you it should be clear that the angels in heaven are a lot smarter than we are and they understand that His understanding is on a whole different level to theirs.

That is why in the OP I wrote:

I can ask Him more and get a better idea, but it usually comes down to me not being the Truth, but Him

It goes along with 1 Cor 8:2 If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know;

We can know Jesus Christ, the person, as the Truth, but we had better not suppose we know what is true! Otherwise you are not going to take every thought or even any thought to Jesus Christ to find out what is true!

 

[Soyeong]

There is a serious misunderstanding above.

The problem is that Jesus is the Word of God, and He has always been the Word of God.

So - any Scripture that was written by man-kind was written because He (the Christ) talked to them. So He does not live in sinless obedience to the Torah, that is making an idol out of the Bible! The Bible however was written to give us an idea of who He is!

Writings are not alive - I don't really have to prove that do it. Is the paper alive? Does is move? Does it think? Does it grow? Common now - people just get silly and that is absolutely what I am talking about on this thread.

If someone tells you ink on paper is alive it should be obvious that is a lie. Still, you should take it to Jesus Christ, because He is the truth and His sheep hear His voice.

So what would He tell you? The truth obviously! He might take you to the Bible to confirm what He is saying because the Bible is good for reprove, and teaching. So perhaps He takes you to Jn 5 where you can read that the Jews during His time were searching the Scriptures thinking in them they had life instead of coming to Him, and also that they did not actually believe the writings of Moses so how were they going to hear His words, since Moses had told them that the word of God was near them, in their hearts and mouth, so not on writings.

Jesus is the Christ! He has been around from the beginning. All things were created through Him, so He is not the personification of the sacred writings. That is obviously not correct. It is not true, and if you are saying that then you are not talking your thoughts captive to Jesus Christ, but have been leaning on your own understanding, and not even the understanding in the Bible.

To say that the Torah is truth is not speaking about ink and parchment, but about what it teaches, so if God were to take everything that the Torah teaches and put it in the form of a person, then He would end up with Jesus, which is why Jesus is the personification of what the Torah teaches. For example, the Torah teaches us what it looks like to express God's righteousness and Jesus is the personification of God's righteousness. The Torah is God's instructions for what it looks like to express His nature, Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), and what that looked like was a life lived in sinless obedience to the Torah. In Galatians 4:4, Jesus was born under the Torah and obligated to obey it, and he was sinless, so he never broke it, but he still would have lived in complete accordance with the Torah even if he hadn't been obligated to obey it because he still would have had the same nature.

In Matthew 19:16-17, Jesus said that if we want to enter eternal life, then obey the commandments, so in regard to John 5:39-40, eternal life can be found in the Scriptures, and the Pharisees were correct to search for it there, but they needed to recognize that the goal of everything in the Scriptures is to testify about how to know Christ and come into a relationship with him for eternal life. In Philippians 3:8, Paul was in the same boat as the Pharisees, were he had been obeying the Torah without having a focus on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the Torah and counted it all as rubbish. In Romans 10:4, Christ is the goal of the Torah for righteousness for everyone who has faith.

Jesus said in John 5:46-47 that if they believed Moses, then they would believe what he said because Moses wrote about him, but if they don't believe his writings, then how can they believe what he said? So we can't uphold what Christ said without also upholding what Moses wrote, and you trying to use what Moses wrote to undermine what he wrote is a non-starter.

 

[Jeshu]

We can know Jesus Christ, the person, as the Truth, but we had better not suppose we know what is true!

Of course we can determine truth, everything in the word of God is true, (Proverbs 30:5), and otherwise matters among us are established by two or three witnesses. (2 Corinthians 13:1). The Living Word is who we want as Lord, for then we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free.

i do agree that there is always more than we can know, knowing is not static but rather ultra dynamic. His truth ought to grow in our hearts as well, not remain a seed, but become a fruit tree bearing good fruits. If truth is not lived in love it is not God's truth.

No we shall never be Jesus, such tries the spirit of satan in arrogant hearts, He will always be our Lord and we shall always be His children. i have a lot of peace with that.

 

[K2K]

Of course we can determine truth, everything in the word of God is true, (Proverbs 30:5), and otherwise matters among us are established by two or three witnesses. (2 Corinthians 13:1). The Living Word is who we want as Lord, for then we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free.

i do agree that there is always more than we can know, knowing is not static but rather ultra dynamic. His truth ought to grow in our hearts as well, not remain a seed, but become a fruit tree bearing good fruits. If truth is not lived in love it is not God's truth.

No we shall never be Jesus, such tries the spirit of satan in arrogant hearts, He will always be our Lord and we shall always be His children. i have a lot of peace with that.

We can listen to the Truth!

That is not the same thing as "determining the truth"

Jesus Christ is the Truth, meaning that what He says is true. His sheep hear His voice, but 'determine' means we made a conclusion based on our understanding (not His). So while it is correct to say that 'the word of God is true', it is incorrect to assume that your understanding or determination of it is correct (true).

A good example of this is you writing 'everything in the word of God', because you misunderstood that the word of God is a "He", a person, not a book!

Jn 1:1,2 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

Jesus Christ is a person and He said that He was the truth, but you interpret the word of god to be a book, so not a person. And so it is that many people study the Bible and come to different conclusions based upon their determination of the meanings of the sacred writings. That even when it is explained that it is not up for our interpretation but rather we need the Spirit of God.

Indeed, if Jesus Christ is our Lord, then we are listening and obey what He personally tells us. He teaches us, but if we are learning from Him then didn't we find out that He is the truth and not us?

We see a verse quoted above: Prov 30:5 Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.

The verse is correct, but what does it mean to you. Do you think that if you read the verse then somehow you now have the truth, but then are you not saying that you are a shield to yourself? You are, but may not understand it. Now if you spend time listening to Him and doing what He askes then you figure out that while what He tells you is true, that does not mean your understanding of what He says is true. There is a big difference!! Have we not read that His ways are not are way, and His thoughts are not our thoughts? We must have forgotten that. Yet that become more apparent as we spend more and more time with Him.

Ecc 7:23 I tested all this with wisdom, and I said, "I will be wise". but it was far from me.

King Solomon heard from the Lord and figured that if He tested all that happened with the Holy Spirit he would be wise. He did get wisdom. We can read what the Lord spoke to him via the Holy Spirit, and part of what King Solomon figured out from doing seeking the Lord and listening was that he was wrong by thinking that he would be wise. That was far from him, even thought the Lord was with Him and spoke to him. Basically King Solomon, first thought that hearing from the Lord often would make him wise and that he be wise enough to know what would be true, but what he found out was that God was Wisdom and the Truth, not him!!!

Paul too, which was why Paul wrote 1 Cor 8:2,2 If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know, but if anyone loves God, he is know by Him.

And this is why I posted "Jesus Christ, the Truth, and discernment"

Jesus Christ is the Truth! Knowing that He is the Truth is valuable because in knowing that you know that you are not the Truth! Therefore, any thoughts coming to you saying that you can determine the truth as opposed to you can listen to the Truth, are the very kind of thoughts that need to be taken captive to Jesus Christ.

Prov 3:5,6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.

We find the word of God in our hearts and on our lips, so the Truth is in us, but it is not found in our understanding!! It is found by seeking the Lord Jesus Christ and His words to us, which is found in our heart and on our lips, and that normally after we start seeking Him in all your ways.

 

[K2K]

To say that the Torah is truth is not speaking about ink and parchment, but about what it teaches, so if God were to take everything that the Torah teaches and put it in the form of a person,

Again you are making the Torah God. It is like putting the cart in front of the horse.

God (Jesus Christ) did not come along after that Torah, He was the One who spoke to the people who wrote the Torah!! And not them only!! Do you not know that the Lord talked to Abram and Abram did not have the Torah nor did Abram write one iota of the Scriptures.

Gen 15:1 After these things, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying "....."

Abraham did not write the above, Moses did and long after it happened. So the one whose name is called "The Word of God" appeared to Abram and spoke to him long before the Torah. So thinking that Jesus Christ is someone who came along after the Torah is simply just wrong and not according to what is written in the Torah!!! It is because of that mistake that the Jews in general were searching the Scriptures for internal life instead of listening to the Lord like Abraham did, and the prophets did.

Of course the Jews were just people like the rest of us, and we Christians can make that same mistake. Also not all the Jews were making that mistake. When Jesus arrive we see that Anna and Simeon who listened to the Holy Spirit, and not them only, but neither did the Pharisees listen to the Holy Spirit.

So the sacred writings, from those of Moses in the Torah to those writings of the authors of the New Testament all wrote to get people to listen to the Christ via the Holy Spirit. Yet it was written about many, that they did not hear.

Moses told them Deut 30:19,20... So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life

But of course Moses also told them Deut 8:18,20... I testify against you today that you will surely perish. Like the nations that the Lord makes to perish before you, so you shall perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the Lord your God.

So the Israelites were told to listen to the voice of the Lord, over and over but as a group in general, they would not listen to the voice of the Lord which comes via the Holy Spirit to our spirit, so that we find the word of God we preach in our heart. Moses heard the word of the Lord in his heart, like Abraham heard the word of the Lord speaking to him in a vision inside him and believed it was the Lord, like Isaiah heard the Lord and wrote Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear O earth; for the Lord speaks, and that like Malachi heard and wrote Mal 2:1 And now this commandment is for you, O preists If you do not listen... I will send the curse upon you, and even the Word of God took on flesh and told the Pharisees Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God, and Paul wrote Rom 10:8 But what does it says? "The Word is Near you, in your mouth and in your heart' - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

Oh people - you read the sacred writings and some how miss that Jesus Christ is the Truth!

Who tells you that knowing the sacred writings mean that you know the Truth. The sacred writings are not a person who speaks to you. The sacred writings did not appear to Abram in a vision and the word of the Lord speaking. Still you conclude that if you have read the sacred writings you now have the truth. How did you miss the fact that Jesus Christ is the Truth and you find Him speaking to you through His Holy Spirit in your heart? It written over and over to hear, but you tell yourselves that reading reading the ink is hearing from Him, thereby you are not hearing the Lord like Abram, Moses, Isaiah, Malachi, John, Paul, and all those who wrote the Bible.

My friends, if you know Him, you know Him. He is a person who talks to you, who teaches you, who gives you wonderful counsel, who tell you to read the Bible like a Teacher tells their student to read a text book and then goes over it with them. He is the Truth, and don't fool yourself thinking that you have the Truth if you are not listening to Him, like the sacred writings tell you to do!

 

[Soyeong]

Again you are making the Torah God. It is like putting the cart in front of the horse.

God (Jesus Christ) did not come along after that Torah, He was the One who spoke to the people who wrote the Torah!! And not them only!! Do you not know that the Lord talked to Abram and Abram did not have the Torah nor did Abram write one iota of the Scriptures.

Gen 15:1 After these things, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying "....."

Abraham did not write the above, Moses did and long after it happened. So the one whose name is called "The Word of God" appeared to Abram and spoke to him long before the Torah. So thinking that Jesus Christ is someone who came along after the Torah is simply just wrong and not according to what is written in the Torah!!! It is because of that mistake that the Jews in general were searching the Scriptures for internal life instead of listening to the Lord like Abraham did, and the prophets did.

Of course the Jews were just people like the rest of us, and we Christians can make that same mistake. Also not all the Jews were making that mistake. When Jesus arrive we see that Anna and Simeon who listened to the Holy Spirit, and not them only, but neither did the Pharisees listen to the Holy Spirit.

So the sacred writings, from those of Moses in the Torah to those writings of the authors of the New Testament all wrote to get people to listen to the Christ via the Holy Spirit. Yet it was written about many, that they did not hear.

Moses told them Deut 30:19,20... So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life

But of course Moses also told them Deut 8:18,20... I testify against you today that you will surely perish. Like the nations that the Lord makes to perish before you, so you shall perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the Lord your God.

So the Israelites were told to listen to the voice of the Lord, over and over but as a group in general, they would not listen to the voice of the Lord which comes via the Holy Spirit to our spirit, so that we find the word of God we preach in our heart. Moses heard the word of the Lord in his heart, like Abraham heard the word of the Lord speaking to him in a vision inside him and believed it was the Lord, like Isaiah heard the Lord and wrote Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear O earth; for the Lord speaks, and that like Malachi heard and wrote Mal 2:1 And now this commandment is for you, O preists If you do not listen... I will send the curse upon you, and even the Word of God took on flesh and told the Pharisees Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God, and Paul wrote Rom 10:8 But what does it says? "The Word is Near you, in your mouth and in your heart' - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

Oh people - you read the sacred writings and some how miss that Jesus Christ is the Truth!

Who tells you that knowing the sacred writings mean that you know the Truth. The sacred writings are not a person who speaks to you. The sacred writings did not appear to Abram in a vision and the word of the Lord speaking. Still you conclude that if you have read the sacred writings you now have the truth. How did you miss the fact that Jesus Christ is the Truth and you find Him speaking to you through His Holy Spirit in your heart? It written over and over to hear, but you tell yourselves that reading reading the ink is hearing from Him, thereby you are not hearing the Lord like Abram, Moses, Isaiah, Malachi, John, Paul, and all those who wrote the Bible.

My friends, if you know Him, you know Him. He is a person who talks to you, who teaches you, who gives you wonderful counsel, who tell you to read the Bible like a Teacher tells their student to read a text book and then goes over it with them. He is the Truth, and don't fool yourself thinking that you have the Truth if you are not listening to Him, like the sacred writings tell you to do!

I am not making the Torah God. God's nature is eternal, so the way to act in accordance with God's nature is therefore is also eternal, so the Torah has always existed. For example, it was in accordance with God's righteous to help the poor long before Moses wrote anything down, so there were no actions that became righteous when the Torah was given, but rather it revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that, but you keep getting fixated on what was written down. In Genesis 26:5, Abraham heard God's voice and kept His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws, and while it doesn't go into details about the exact content of these instructions, any two sets us instructions for how to act in accordance with God's eternal nature are going to be the same in type and vary only in the degree of thoroughness.

Again, Jesus said that if we want to enter into eternal life, then obey the commandments, so eternal life can be found in the Torah and we are correct to search for it there.

In Deuteronomy 5:22-33, the Israelites turned down hearing the voice of God and wanted God to speak to Moses instead, so it became necessarily for him to write down the rest of the instructions in the Torah given by God's voice in lieu of the people being directed in how to walk in God's ways by hearing His voice.

 

[Jeshu]

i think the OP has forgotten one thing and that is The Living Word. When we love God and neighbour The living word comes alive in our hearts. His loving truth now convicting, now prodding us, to love God and neighbour. The Living Word is the truth written, actively working in our hearts, like Peter mentioned in His first letter chapter 1:22-25, He is building us eternally through The Word.
"Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. For,


“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
but the word of the Lord endures forever.”

And this is the word that was preached to you."

 

[K2K]

I am not making the Torah God. God's nature is eternal, so the way to act in accordance with God's nature is therefore is also eternal, so the Torah has always existed.

The Torah consists of writings!!!

The writings are not God anymore than my writings are me. They express my thoughts, but certainly not all my thoughts. And my writings were not before me. I clearly existed before my writings. My writings are something I created.

The same things is true with God and His writings. God is eternal - not the writings!!

That is obvious, and so should not need to be explained. Yet if a person says the writings are eternal it becomes equally obvious that they lack this basic understanding, that God is the One who had the sacred writings created. To think of the writings as eternal is to make the created a god - an enteral being. That is called idolatry!

So it is that people worship the created instead of the creator. They thus turn to the created instead of the creator. The sacred writings make it clear that there is a difference between the writings and the creator.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Our faith is in Jesus Christ and Him as the Word of God, yet there are those still shut up under sin and do not yet believe in Jesus Christ. They do not understand that all things were created through Him, including the Scriptures. So they writing silly things like the writings are eternal, because they do not believe in Jesus Christ. They write that the Bible is the Word of God because they don't hear by faith. And this is all explained in the sacred writings, but they don't believe what those like Moses wrote, for the wrote the the word we preach is found in our hearts not on the pages with ink. So they don't find Him. He is hidden from them. They created has become the eternal being instead of the creator.

Jn 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

How do they miss the above verse. Jesus Christ is the Word and all things (which would include the Scriptures) came into being through Him!

Still they write silly things like:

The Torah is truth (Psalms 119:142) and Jesus lived in sinless obedience to the Torah, so he is the personification of the truth.

Jesus created the Torah, so He is not nor never has 'lived in sinless obedience to the Torah' nor is he (and you should capitalize 'He' because He is God) the personification of the truth but He is the Truth and the writings explain this.

Jn 14:6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

So they write that the Torah (the created) is the way and the truth of which Jesus came forth as a personification of the Torah, when the Scriptures clearly explain that He is the creator, the Word, the Way, the Truth, and the life. So He spoke to the Jews which should have known Him but only knew the Torah and told them the truth:

Jn 5:39,40 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

and He explained to them:

Jn 5: 46,47“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

And Moses did indeed write about Him:

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
“Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”

So the Word who took on flesh showed up to Abram and spoke to him, and that before Moses wrote it down.

And Moses wrote more which I already showed you

But of course Moses also told them Deut 8:18,20... I testify against you today that you will surely perish. Like the nations that the Lord makes to perish before you, so you shall perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the Lord your God.

They search the Scriptures instead of coming to Him and listening to His voice. Jesus explained it, but Moses had already explained it to them in the desert. Sadly, the scriptures are correct, they will surely perish; because they will not listen to the voice of the Lord their God.

They have replaced listening to the Christ, like Abram did, to proclaiming the Scriptures are eternal. So their faith is in their understanding of the Scriptures, but they do not believe what is written in the Scriptures. Like Abram heard from the word of the Lord so too they need to hear from the Christ. His name is called Jesus because He is our savior, not the writings. That is what the sacred writings explain.

 

[K2K]

i think the OP has forgotten one thing and that is The Living Word. When we love God and neighbour The living word comes alive in our hearts. His loving truth now convicting, now prodding us, to love God and neighbour. The Living Word is the truth written, actively working in our hearts, like Peter mentioned in His first letter chapter 1:22-25, He is building us eternally through The Word.
"Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. For,


“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
but the word of the Lord endures forever.”

And this is the word that was preached to you."

The Word does not come alive - He has always been alive!!!!!!!!!

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

The Bible is not the Word of God! Jesus Christ is the Word of God and He has always been alive!!! That is why you are mistaken.

He said His sheep hear His voice, and He explained:

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

So He - and Jesus Christ is a "He" has always been alive as the Word of God (not the Scriptures but the One who speaks to us vis His Holy Spirit). And HE stands at the door knocking with His voice!! If you open the door to HIM, HE will come into you and eat with you and you with HIM!

Sadly, but well intended, we have started calling the Scripture the Word of God. There is a reason, but we don't fully understand the reason. Our reason for calling the Scriptures "The Word of God" is that the Scriptures have words from God. Specifically they have words from the Word of God (Jesus Christ), but we don't fully understand. What we understand is that we can find words from God in the Bible, and we are correct about that. The Christ (Jesus) spoke to people and had them write what He asked. He did that via His Holy Spirit, so we see it written that all Scriptures are God breathed. So we call the Sacred Writings the Word of God.

What we miss is that the Sacred Writings were written so the you would seek the Lord Jesus Christ yourself!!! You miss that!!

You shouldn't have. It was well explained in the writings. It was explained that His sheep hear His voice, but instead of opening up the door to Him and listening to Him and His voice, which still comes through His Holy Spirit, you think the reading what He spoke to others is Him speaking to you. It's not Him speaking to you, it was Him speaking to others and having them write it down so that you might turn to Him and hear Him speaking to you.

The Holy Spirit once told me, "Karl we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord."

So have you not read that whoever believes in HIM will be saved???

It is not written that whoever believes in the writings will be saved, because He is not something written. He is a person, the Christ!

He once told me:

I MADE THE MOUNTAIN AND THE MOUNTAIN IS GOOD, BUT WOE TO THOSE WHO WORSHIP THE MOUNTAIN. WOE TO THOSE WHO WORSHIP THE CREATED AND NOT THE CREATOR.

I AM THE WORD OF GOD! THAT IS WHAT THEY CALL ME. FOR WHAT PROPHET EVER SAID ‘THE WORD OF THE LORD CAME TO ME SAYING’ AND DIDN’T MEAN THAT I CAME CLOSE? SHOULD I SHARE MY NAME WITH MY CREATION?


I write because He asks me to. This should be easy to explain but because people refuse to believe the He is there to be heard from, it is very hard to explain this very simple thing.

He is the creator and He would like His creation to listen to Him personally!!

We wanted that so He had people write and even preserved some writing so all people should know that He wants them to listen to Him who has always been alive! Yet the people would not seek Him!! so they made an idol out of the writings, saying to themselves that He is either dead or on some far off place called heaven (Rm 10) They refuse to except that He, the Word of God, is near them. That is to say that God is omni-present and so you can find His Holy Spirit speaking to your spirit. If you open up that door He will come inside you and He and you will talk to each other!!

He once told me, "Karl, they call me Wonderful Counselor and so I am, but I am not a wonderful counselor to those that don't listen to Me." And my friends reading about Him is not the same thing as listening to Him, the Great I Am. The Great I Am is the Wonderful Counselor, but He is not a wonderful counselor to you if you don't actually listen to Him.

You call Him "Lord" but you don't know Him. You know of Him but you don't seek Him. You find excuse after excuse to not seek Him who is in your midst.

So I write that Jesus Christ is the truth, but you say the Bible is the truth. I tell you that He is alive and active, but you tell me the writings are alive and active. I tell you it is the Spirit who gives life and that His words are spirit and are life, and you tell me the writings are the word of God and if you study them you have life. So I point out that Jesus said "you search the Scriptures thinking in them you have live instead of coming to Him", and then you tell me 'no' Jesus is going to give you life someday when you die.

He was right to say you are a stubborn people

Jer 5:23 ‘But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; They have turned aside and departed.

People - He, Jesus Christ - wants you to listen to Him and what He has to say to you!! But you turn aside from Him at every chance.

You live a lie saying that HE is not around and so you find your 'truth' in the writings, but you don't believe the writings or you would have believed in Him, sought Him, and found Him. His sheep do hear His voice, and it is a voice spoken in words via His Holy Spirit so you hear them in your spirit! That is why the Word of God we preach is found in our hearts, and not on the ink on pages.

 

[Jeshu]

You live a lie saying that HE is not around and so you find your 'truth' in the writings, but you don't believe the writings or you would have believed in Him, sought Him, and found Him.

Claiming that you know Jesus apart of the word, and that others, who found Jesus through the word, don't know Jesus, but you do, is nothing sort of arrogance on your part and shows us that you don't really know Jesus all that well after all.

Jesus rescued me from a life of sickness and depression, all because i followed His inner Voice, i have all the prove i need to know that i know Jesus and He knows me. i don't need you to deny me, or any other believer, our Lord and Saviour.

Revelation 19:11-13
" I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God."

 

[K2K]

Claiming that you know Jesus apart of the word, and that others, who found Jesus through the word, don't know Jesus, but you do, is nothing sort of arrogance on your part and shows us that you don't really know Jesus all that well after all.

Jesus rescued me from a life of sickness and depression, all because i followed His inner Voice, i have all the prove i need to know that i know Jesus and He knows me. i don't need you to deny me, or any other believer, our Lord and Saviour.

Revelation 19:11-13
" I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God."

Do you understand that the inner voice you hear is 'the word" (Jesus Christ)??

Because by what you write, it seems that you are calling the Scriptures, 'the word' and Him 'the inner voice', but then you quote a verse that clearly calls Him the Word of God, which is correct?

When you write "apart from the word" do you mean apart from the Scriptures. The Greek word of Scriptures is Graphe and in not translated "word" in your Bible!! Still, that is just semantics, so I will ignore the fact that your 'wording' does not match up with the Bible and address the issue of finding Jesus Christ through the Bible.

First - we need to understand that Jesus Christ is not the Bible!! But in a prior post you wrote:

The Living Word is the truth written

This is why Jesus could and did tell the Jews they searched the Scriptures thinking that would give them eternal life, and that they did not come to Him. (See Jn 5:39)

Indeed, the purpose for Him having the Scriptures written were that people might seek Him. So we read in 1 Tim 3:15 ... the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

The Scriptures are able and indeed are supposed to lead you to Jesus Christ, and Him as the Word of God. Yet saying they are able to does not mean they did!!!

It does however seem from some of what you write that you did come to know Him, because you also wrote:

because i followed His inner Voice, i have all the prove i need to know that i know Jesus and He knows me.

Indeed, that inner Voice is Him, is it not? Then you do know Him, not because you read the Bible ,though you should do that, but because you hear His voice! It is written that His sheep hear His voice, and you say you do so I don't doubt you.

Of course the His Holy Spirit is not the only spirit, but if you seek Him you find Him. That is what is written and that is what happens.

Now I don't know how often or how well you hear Him, but if you say you hear that 'inner voice' of His, then you should understand that He is the Word of God - Which is to say that He is the One who comes with the words of God and speaks to you personally.

I don't want you to doubt that, but I want you to believe that!! That is why I preach Him (Jesus Christ) as the Word of God, as does the Bible!

I want you to develop that relationship with Him, and that by continually seeking Him and what He has to say to you via that 'inner voice' if that is how you want to put it. As you do so, He will teach you things, and you get better and better at hearing Him. It is written that to those who have more will be given. So the more you seek Him the more words He will give you. This means practicing using your spiritual senses, and that help you with your discernment - which brings us back to the OP.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Now I originally wrote the OP because He told me to. I think I did a poor job of it, but He asked. It was based on a teaching He gave me via that 'inner voice' if you want it put that way. He was teaching me about discernment of spirits, because we battle with the dark forces (evil spirits) of this world. So 'He brings to light' so to speak, the things going on around you in the spiritual world.

Having ears to hear that 'inner voice' means that you have ears to hear spirits, any spirits. So we need to test them (see 1 Jn 4:1-3) and practice hearing to get better at discernment. If you hear something that does not seem to be true, take what you hear back to the Lord and get more information from Him! You will find that sometimes it was from Him but you didn't understand, and sometimes it was not from Him. So what you are doing is reasoning with Him.

Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together, ...”

Now Paul wrote about taking all thoughts captive to Him, but I find that hard to do. I get busy during the day and just don't remember to take all thoughts to Him and listen to the 'inner voice'. So knowing that He is the truth gets me to turn to Him whenever I think something might not be true. It can be any thought, like something from the radio, tv, or just thoughts that come to me, if I wonder if the thought is true I then stop and ask Jesus Christ about the thought and listen to that 'inner voice' that comes from Him.

Now when He replies, He often brings up Scriptures because the Scriptures are good for reproof and teaching, and as the Teacher He often uses the Scriptures when talking to me. Therefore the Scriptures are not Him, the Teacher, but the Textbook, the Teacher uses! What you don't want to do is lean on your own understanding! That would be leaving Him out of your life, and not recognizing Him in your life!

Now I personally think you should start calling Jesus Christ, the One who talks to you via the Holy Spirit and hear with what you call 'the inner voice', The Word of God. Indeed you provided the Scripture (Rev 19:13) which tells you that His name is called "The Word of God" And then you would probably call the Scriptures the 'Bible', the 'Sacred Writings', or just the "Scriptures', because that is what they are. To call both Jesus Christ and the Scriptures by the same name is just confusing! And you know that Jesus Christ is the person called the Word of God who took on flesh and is not the Scriptures, right?

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

The above verse and many others prove that the Scriptures are not Jesus Christ, and you know Jesus Christ is the person you know via the 'inner voice'. So He is the One who sometimes talks to you about the Scriptures, but also talks to you about other things also, right?

 

[Soyeong]

The Torah consists of writings!!!

The writings are not God anymore than my writings are me. They express my thoughts, but certainly not all my thoughts. And my writings were not before me. I clearly existed before my writings. My writings are something I created.

The same things is true with God and His writings. God is eternal - not the writings!!

That is obvious, and so should not need to be explained. Yet if a person says the writings are eternal it becomes equally obvious that they lack this basic understanding, that God is the One who had the sacred writings created. To think of the writings as eternal is to make the created a god - an enteral being. That is called idolatry!

So it is that people worship the created instead of the creator. They thus turn to the created instead of the creator. The sacred writings make it clear that there is a difference between the writings and the creator.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Our faith is in Jesus Christ and Him as the Word of God, yet there are those still shut up under sin and do not yet believe in Jesus Christ. They do not understand that all things were created through Him, including the Scriptures. So they writing silly things like the writings are eternal, because they do not believe in Jesus Christ. They write that the Bible is the Word of God because they don't hear by faith. And this is all explained in the sacred writings, but they don't believe what those like Moses wrote, for the wrote the the word we preach is found in our hearts not on the pages with ink. So they don't find Him. He is hidden from them. They created has become the eternal being instead of the creator.

Jn 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

How do they miss the above verse. Jesus Christ is the Word and all things (which would include the Scriptures) came into being through Him!

Still they write silly things like:



Jesus created the Torah, so He is not nor never has 'lived in sinless obedience to the Torah' nor is he (and you should capitalize 'He' because He is God) the personification of the truth but He is the Truth and the writings explain this.

Jn 14:6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

So they write that the Torah (the created) is the way and the truth of which Jesus came forth as a personification of the Torah, when the Scriptures clearly explain that He is the creator, the Word, the Way, the Truth, and the life. So He spoke to the Jews which should have known Him but only knew the Torah and told them the truth:

Jn 5:39,40 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

and He explained to them:

Jn 5: 46,47“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

And Moses did indeed write about Him:

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
“Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”

So the Word who took on flesh showed up to Abram and spoke to him, and that before Moses wrote it down.

And Moses wrote more which I already showed you


They search the Scriptures instead of coming to Him and listening to His voice. Jesus explained it, but Moses had already explained it to them in the desert. Sadly, the scriptures are correct, they will surely perish; because they will not listen to the voice of the Lord their God.

They have replaced listening to the Christ, like Abram did, to proclaiming the Scriptures are eternal. So their faith is in their understanding of the Scriptures, but they do not believe what is written in the Scriptures. Like Abram heard from the word of the Lord so too they need to hear from the Christ. His name is called Jesus because He is our savior, not the writings. That is what the sacred writings explain.

In order for the statement that God is eternally righteous to be meaningful, there need to be an eternal standard of what is and is not righteous. This eternal standard has existed for as long as God has been eternally righteous, so is not something created by God, but rather it is an expression of who He is. This eternal standard can at some later point in time be spoken to and written down by Moses, but that does not mean that what Moses wrote is God, but rather it teaches us about who He is. Jesus existed before Moses wrote down that eternal standard was written down by Moses, but that eternal standard has existed for as long as Jesus has been eternal, especially because he is the personification of that eternal standard. Again, Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). The Torah scroll that Moses wrote was created by him, so it is not eternal, but it nevertheless teaches us things that are eternally true about God's righteousness. This does not detract from the fact that all things were created through Jesus.

Do you deny that Jesus was sinless?

the Torah is the way (Jeremiah 6:16-19), the truth (Psalms 119:142), and the life (Deuteronomy 32:47, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6), the Torah is God's Word written down, and Jesus is God's Word made flesh, so they are the same way, truth, and life, and there is no following one apart from following the other. As long as you focus on the physical scroll that was written down instead of the eternal truth that it contains, then you are not going to understand me, and you are going to put many words in my mouth of which I have not spoken.

 

[Jeshu]

the Torah is God's Word written down, and Jesus is God's Word made flesh, so they are the same way, truth, and life, and there is no following one apart from following the other.

Amen!

Jesus is the living Word, His Name is The Word of God and out of His mouth comes a two edged sword. It is The King of kings and Lord of lords i serve.

Not just some inner voice i cannot check. Rather we have two witnesses 1)The Spirit, making us cry Abba Father again, and 2) the written word. 1 Peter 1:23

Not that the word is God, but what God has spoken is eternally true.

So i serve The Living God, the God of The Word, He speaks to me using all kind of truths, but none contradict or distort the Word as He has spoken it, rather He confirms it every chance He gets.

i know who does distort the word, the devil, he wants to take the truth of the word away, and present himself as an angel of light doing so.

Best be aware of that.

 

[K2K]

Amen!

Jesus is the living Word, His Name is The Word of God and out of His mouth comes a two edged sword. It is The King of kings and Lord of lords i serve.

Not just some inner voice i cannot check. Rather we have two witnesses 1)The Spirit, making us cry Abba Father again, and 2) the written word. 1 Peter 1:23

Not that the word is God, but what God has spoken is eternally true.

So i serve The Living God, the God of The Word, He speaks to me using all kind of truths, but none contradict or distort the Word as He has spoken it, rather He confirms it every chance He gets.

i know who does distort the word, the devil, he wants to take the truth of the word away, and present himself as an angel of light doing so.

Best be aware of that.

Yeah - the devil would like to distort the word!

But who or what is the word?

The correct answer is that Jesus Christ is the Word of God, and that because He talks to us.

He of course talked to those who wrote the Scriptures, so they wrote things like "The word of the Lord came to me saying"

But a word doesn't say but is something a person says. Jesus Christ is the person who says! So is where you read "the word of the Lord came saying" you can read that as 'Jesus Christ came saying" For example look at these verse:

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
“Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”

The Scriptures didn't come to Abram saying, but the Lord did. So it could be written "After these things Jesus Christ came to Abram in a vision, saying....

Gen 15:4 Then behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, “This man will not be your heir; but one who will come forth from your own [fn]body, he shall be your heir.”

Exo 9:20 The one among the servants of Pharaoh who feared the word of the LORD made his servants and his livestock flee into the houses;

It could read "The one among the servants of Pharaoh who feared Jesus Christ, made his servants and his livestock flee into the houses.

You understand that we don't actually fear words but God and Jesus Christ is God and the Word. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

So in the Bible we see over and over that the word of God or the word of the Lord (same thing) refers to our Lord. In Revelation, which is basically a revelation of who Jesus Christ is, we find that His name is called "The Word of God" but can we apply it back in the Bible to get that revelations about Him? Do we, after reading that His name is called The Word of God, go back and take hold of that revelation?

If so we find that He was the One who talked to Abram, saying... And He talked to Moses and a few fear Him and took precautions. And this goes on and on in the Bible!!

Num 3:16 So Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD, just as he had been commanded.

Moses did not read Scripture but he got instructions from Jesus Christ, just like you say you do via that "inner voice" you know as His.

And keep looking:

1 Sam 15:10 Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying,

See, same thing! Jesus Christ came to Samuel, saying!

2 Sam 7:4 But in the same night the word of the LORD came to Nathan, saying,

And Jesus Christ came to Nathan saying

2 Sam 12:9 Why have you despised the word of the LORD by doing evil in His sight?

Do you see that the above verse reads, 'Why have you despised Jesus Christ by doing evil in His sight?

1 Kings 6:11 Now the word of the LORD came to Solomon saying,

1 Kings 16:1 Now the word of the LORD came to Jehu the son of Hanani against Baasha, saying,

So king Solomon and Jehu both heard that same One with the 'inner voice' that talks to you, right?

And this continues:

1 Kings 19:9 Then he came there to a cave and lodged there; and behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and He said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

1 Kings 21:17 Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying,

1 Kings 21:28 Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying,

So Elijah knew Jesus Christ as the "word of the Lord', that One who came to him saying. Do we know Jesus Christ, that One who comes to us saying, as the Word of God or is that the writings. Those who wrote didn't call the writings the word of the Lord or the word of God, but Him who talked to Him.

However Isaiah wrote an interesting thing. Look closely at the following verses

Is 28:12,13 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,” And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen. So the word of the LORD to them will be, “Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,” That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

Do you see that if we do not listen to the Lord then the word of the Lord is the line on lines of text, and that so they we will stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive???

So if we listen to Jesus Christ, He becomes the word of God to us just like those who wrote the Bible, but if we don't listen then the word of the Lord will be the orderly line upon line of text in the Bible and that so we will stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive!!

The reason is obvious. You are either going to live by faith that He is there with you so that you seek Him and what He has to say to you personally, or you are going to reject Him being there with you to seek advice from. In that case the word of the Lord will have to be the Scriptures instead of Him. Now this does not mean we should not read the Scriptures! We can learn a lot from them, like the fact that Jesus Christ is called the Word of God, and that if we don't seek Him to hear what He has to say to us, then we will make the Scriptures the Word of God and not Him speaking to us!

In that case He needs to let us be taken captive and be broken so that we will get smart again and start seeking Him again. Now again, that does not mean that we do not read and study the Scriptures, but it does mean that we seek Him and His voice!! We should even do that about what part of our Bible we should study today. I mean, if you go to a class with a teacher, don't they tell you what chapters to read for the class? Of course they do, so to you need to talk to Him who talks to you via that 'inner voice' to find out what He wants to read and go over with you. How do you think I found out about applying the revelation in Rev 19:13 to the other parts of the Bible. He showed it to me. He will show you things also, as your Teacher, if you make it a priority to seek Him and His voice!

You can hear from Him, but is hearing Him the priority in your life, or have you replaced hearing from Him with reading your Bible at times??