One reason this topic is important to me is because I think that it's important for people to be aware of the authority and power of God behind what Jesus says about how to live our lives, and what I've seen Christian evangelism doing seems to me to mostly be diverting attention from that, and even repelling people away from learning about it.
I never see Christians talking about Jesus as a person to serve and obey above all others, learning together to live the way He says to live. I'm wondering if that's true of most Christian evangelism, or only the parts of it that I've seen. I've been in many discussions with Christians, online and offline, and this might actually be the first time that I've seen any Christian who sees what I see in the gospels about Jesus as a person to serve and obey above all others and about learning together to live the way he says to live. All I ever see them talking about is requirements for salvation, and I don't think that there are any. I think that's just smoke and mirrors diverting attention from the Lordship of Jesus, and repelling people away from learning about it.
Apologies, that was harsh. It does grieve me, but I’m not here to complain. I just wanted to find out if Christians think and talk about the Lordship of Jesus more than I’ve seen them doing.
Maybe I should try to clarify this some more. In the gospel stories, it looks to me like what Jesus wants people to know most of all is that the best life they can live, for themselves and for the world, is learning together to live the way He says to live, with conscious efforts to continually improve their attitudes and behavior in accordance with all of His teachings, recognizing and accepting Him as a person to serve and obey above all others. That includes studying His teachings together, *all* of His teachings, *everything* that He says in the gospel stories, and practicing together with conscious efforts by each person to continually improve their own attitudes and behavior. That's what I think Jesus in the gospels is saying about what is best for every person and for the world, and that's what I think He wants people to know most of all. I never see Christians talking about this, but maybe that's only because most of my experience with Christians has been with people trying to convert me, and people promoting their Christian beliefs in online discussions. I'm trying to find out if there is anyone in the world besides me who sees what I see Jesus saying in the gospels that I think He wants people to know most of all.
No. I'm just trying to find out if there's anyone else in the world who sees what I see in the gospels, that I think Jesus wants for us most of all, that is, to recognize and accept Him as a person to serve and obey above all others, learning together to live the way He says to live. In my understanding that includes studying together, and conscious efforts by each person to continually improve their own character and capacities, in accordance with everything that He says in the gospels about how to live our lives. I'm trying to find out if there's anyone else in the world besides me who sees that in the gospels as what Jesus wants for us most of all.
followingjesus.org
Interesting. Thanks!It sounds to me like you are pondering matters like Dietrich Bonhoeffer did that have been interpreted as primarily following Jesus by deed above worship. Bonhoeffer considered this practice as a “religionless Christianity”. Important matters to consider are though that Pastor Bonhoeffer was a political prisoner of the Nazis at this time. He was blessed, to a small degree, to have initially not undergone torture but he still only saw 30 minutes of daylight each day. Prisoners at Tegel jail in Berlin remained upstairs when allied air raids occurred. Later Bonhoeffer was directly linked to the plot against Hitler and transferred to a camp & tortured. Pastor Bonhoeffer was tragically executed a month before the Nazi surrender in 1945.
There are different opinions on whether Bonhoeffer remained an orthodox Christian or not. I believe he did and was a martyr ( he is a martyr in some sense regardless).
Here is an ethical article on Bonhoeffer that supports the post Christian view of Bonhoeffer’s view of Christ.
religionless Christianity
Dietrich Bonhoeffer began to struggle with what remains when the typical traits of a religion—clergy, rites, beliefs, and morality—are eliminated.
There is also an Orthodox Christian nun, Mother Maria ( Skobtsova), also executed by the Nazis, who struggled with how to properly follow Jesus Christ in matters of faith & ethics. She wrote an essay on this at the same time Bonhoeffer wrote: The Cost of Discipleship. Her essay ( about 25pp.) was never intended to be published but was for her fellow coworkers but was found years later in a filing cabinet. Despite the variance of Lutheran & Orthodox faiths, I believe Pastor Bonhoeffer and Mother Maria were kindred spirits who probably never met. Mother Maria never wavered from Orthodoxy but had many of the challenges of how to follow Jesus Christ in a rapidly changing world.
I believe there is wisdom that can be found from people like these who may help you in forming your views.
