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JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    No problem. Why do you think I always say to you if you do not understand what the shadow laws are from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD pointed to?

    What do you think the animal sacrifices pointed to and the earlthy Sanctuary and levitical priesthood pointed to? In regards to LUKE 24:44 you do know the Mosaic shadow laws, the prophets and Psalms all pointed to JESUS right as the coming Messiah e.g. *DANIEL 9:24-27; PSALMS 40; HEBREWS 10; PSALMS 22 etc etc...

    Some (not exhaustive) more OLD testament scriptures of JESUS fulfilled in the new testament

    [1] Messiah would be born of a woman. Genesis 3:15; Matthew 1:20; Galatians 4:4
    [2] Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1; Luke 2:4-6
    [3] Messiah would be born of a virgin. Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:22-23; Luke 1:26-31
    [4] Messiah would come from the line of Abraham. Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; Matthew 1:1; Romans 9:5
    [5] Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac. Genesis 17:19; Genesis 21:12 Luke 3:34
    [6] Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob. Numbers 24:17 Matthew 1:2
    [7] Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah. Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:33; Hebrews 7:14
    [8] Messiah would be heir to King David's throne. 2 Samuel 7:12-13; Isaiah 9:7 Luke 1:32-33; Romans 1:3
    [9] Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal. Psalm 45:6-7; Daniel 2:44 Luke 1:33; Hebrews 1:8-12
    [10] Messiah would be called Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23
    [11] Messiah would spend a season in Egypt. Hosea 11:1; Matthew 2:14-15
    [12] A massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace. Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16-18
    13 A messenger would prepare the way for Messiah Isaiah 40:3-5 Luke 3:3-6
    [14] Messiah would be rejected by his own people. Psalm 69:8; Isaiah 53:3; John 1:11; John 7:5
    [15] Messiah would be a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:15; Acts 3:20-22
    [16] Messiah would be preceded by Elijah. Malachi 4:5-6; Matthew 11:13-14
    [17] Messiah would be declared the Son of God. Psalm 2:7; Matthew 3:16-17
    [18] Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Isaiah 11:1; Matthew 2:23
    [19] Messiah would bring light to Galilee. Isaiah 9:1-2; Matthew 4:13-16
    [20] Messiah would speak in parables. Psalm 78:2-4; Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:10-15; 34-35
    [21] Messiah would be sent to heal the brokenhearted. Isaiah 61:1-; Luke 4:18-19
    [22] Messiah would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek. Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:5-6
    [23] Messiah would be called King. Psalm 2:6; Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 27:37; Mark 11:7-11
    [24] Messiah would be praised by little children. Psalm 8:2; Matthew 21:16
    [25] Messiah would be betrayed. Psalm 41:9 Zechariah 11:12-13 Luke 22:47-48 Matthew 26:14-16
    [26] Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field. Zechariah 11:12-13; Matthew 27:9-10
    [27] Messiah would be falsely accused. Psalm 35:11; Mark 14:57-58
    [28] Messiah would be silent before his accusers. Isaiah 53:7; Mark 15:4-5
    [29] Messiah would be spat upon and struck. Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 26:67
    [30] Messiah would be hated without cause. Psalm 35:19; Psalm 69:4; John 15:24-25
    [31] Messiah would be crucified with criminals. Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27-28
    [32] Messiah would be given vinegar to drink. Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34; John 19:28-30
    [33] Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced. Psalm 22:16; Zechariah 12:10; John 20:25-7
    [34] Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed. Psalm 22:7-8; Luke 23:35
    [35] Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments. Psalm 22:18 Luke 23:34; Matthew 27:35-36
    [36] Messiah's bones would not be broken. Exodus 12:46; Psalm 34:20; John 19:33-36
    [37] Messiah would be forsaken by God. Psalm 22:1; Matthew 27:46
    [38] Messiah would pray for his enemies. Psalm 109:4 Luke 23:34
    [39] Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side. Zechariah 12:10; John 19:34
    [40] Messiah would be buried with the rich. Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57-60
    [41] Messiah would resurrect from the dead. Psalm 16:10; Psalm 49:15 Matthew 28:2-7; Acts 2:22-32
    [42] Messiah would ascend to heaven. Psalm 24:7-10 Mark 16:19; Luke 24:51
    43 Messiah would be seated at God's right hand. Psalm 68:18; Psalm 110:1 Mark 16:19; Matthew 22:44
    [44] Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin. Isaiah 53:5-12 Romans 5:6-8 (source)

    Brother the above are only some of many more. We haven't even started talking about CIRCUMCISION and some of the other SHADOW laws associated with the annual feast days, new moons and special ceremonial sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week (not God's 4th commandment) from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

    Hope this helps to explain your question in relation to Luke 24:44

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  2. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Would you kindly tell me how I'm to respond to your passages? Are you attempting I must say yes and Amen to your chain of thought and Scriptures? Or are you demanding I ignore to the ones I post? You certainly do. Nothing you post from the OT has any merit for the Christian. To try requiring Christians to observe the law (famous 10) specifically the 4th commandment with NT passages is futile. There's not a single passage found in the NT obligating Christians to the law (famous 10). I haven't read any post by anyone including such.
    Because I've other things to do besides argue with you. Not only that, like I said there are several single passages that refute your effort to require Christians to keep the law. You just throw them out. You just tried to invalidate Luke 16:16 with verse 17. Luke 16:16 doesn't claim the law failed. So your point is null and void trying to promote the law as a requirement for Christians.
    This passage has nothing to do with the law (famous 10). For that to be true for you, you simply insert what you want. There's nothing in the text indicating the famous 10. The problem is your theology. You believe Jesus issued the famous 10. You have no Scripture to back that view up. I've quoted the Gospels to you as proof.
    A memorial celebration is no different from a ceremonial celebration. You can't have a memorial activity without ceremony. If the other required items of Lev 23 are ceremonial so is the weekly sabbath. It is listed first in Lev 23.
    Why did God tell Israel to do this? What exactly is remembered?
    OK so you accused me of lying yet again. Nothing new. It's your way of dismissing the truth. Jesus provides the rest the sabbath can't and doesn't. It's type of the sabbath - Heb 4:9 says there remains a sabbatismos. This is a typology kind of word. It isn't the sabbaton.
    Pretty simple - Mat 11:28-30. The sabbath wasn't made or required prior to the departure from Egypt. In fact it's the first time the sabbath is mentioned. In view of Ps 95:11 and Heb 3:11 quoting it, they didn't enter God's rest even while they observed the 7th day sabbath. So what is your objection of Jesus being my rest they couldn't enter into? Is it because you don't have this rest either mistaking the physical day for the spiritual rest? I think so.
    No you mix God's Law with the famous 10 which came 430 years after Abraham (Gal 3:17). And Moses said plainly Abraham nor anyone else prior to the departure from Egypt didn't have the covenant (famous 10) given to Israel (Deut 4:13; 5:3). I'm not mixing anything.
    Again no I'm not. See above response in this post.
    You do yourself no favors. Read only what the verse says.
    You insert the word "eternal" to support your doctrine. Since you claim proof is the stone tablets - produce them.
    If you say those references contain the word eternal law, no. If you mean am I referring to the law of Moses, yes.
    This is to Israel only.
    No and it doesn't matter how many times you ask that. You promote the law, the Old Covenant while I promote Jesus and His New Covenant.
     
  3. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Please just answer the question. Your long post doesn't answer the question.
     
  4. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    No thanks. I refuse to depart from the Gospel for the law.

    I edited the post to You may pick apart my post line by line. Sorry that you think I made a demand.
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    No problem. Do the same as I do for you. Break the post down section by section and scripture by scripture and prove your claims with scriptures. So far you have pretty much simply chosen to ignore most of my posts and the scriptures in them shared with you and moved on to change the topic of discussion.

    Brother, I am not attempting anything. I am simply sharing God's WORD with you. All I am hearing here is your own words. Did you have any scripture to share? On point though I post all the WORD of God because God's WORD is for God's people and it is the Word of God that we are to live by *MATTHEW 4:4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16.

    This section of your post only shows you have not been reading the posts and scriptures sent to you. God's eternal law (10 Commandments) only give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. They make nothing perfect. God's LAW is the mirror that shows us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. You need to find JESUS for forgiveness of your sins in order to be BORN again to walk in his Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16. If we are still in our sins (breaking any of God's 10 Commandments *JAMES 2:10-11), God's WORD says we do not know God and our claims of knowing God is a lie *1 JOHN 2:3-4.

    Sounds like you need a new bible brother. Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.

    WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
    (the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive)

    Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..


    1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matthew 5:17-18)
    2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
    3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matthew 22:36-40)
    4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
    5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
    6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
    7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matthew 5:19)
    8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

    Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

    1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
    2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Corinthians 7:19
    3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Romans 2:13-16
    4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Romans 3:31
    5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:6-8
    6 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jeremiah 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Hebrews 8:7-11
    7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2 Timothy 3:16
    AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
    8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Ephesians 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
    9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Romans 7:12)
    10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; 7:7)
    11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Romans 6:23)
    12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Romans 2:23)
    13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Romans 3:19)
    14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Romans 3:31)
    15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Romans 6:1-7)
    16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Romans 6:15)
    17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Romans 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
    18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Galatians 3:24)
    19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Romans 6:22)
    20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Romans 2:4-13)
    21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Romans 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Hebrews 8:9-10)
    22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    John affirms the 10 commandments……

    1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
    2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
    3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
    4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
    5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
    6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
    7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
    8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
    9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
    10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
    11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
    12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

    James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

    1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
    2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
    3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
    4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
    5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

    Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

    1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Peter 1:2)
    2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Peter 1:5)
    3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Peter 1:13-16)
    4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Peter 2:21-22)
    5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Peter 4:1-3)
    6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
    7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Peter 1:2-4)
    8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Peter 2:6)
    9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Peter 2:20-22)
    10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Peter 3:5-14)

    What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

    1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
    2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
    3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
    4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
    5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
    6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
    7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; Ezekiel 20:20)
    8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22)
    9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10)

    God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Brother I have not come here to argue with you. I am only sharing God's WORD with you. If you want to argue your better off doing your other things.

    Well that statement has no truth in it brother. You have provided no scripture that refutes a single passage of scripture shared only in love as a help to you. We have looked at everything you have provided and have shown that it is your interpreation of the passage that is the problem as you leave out context. That is why you find other scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures.

    It seems in your view brother if someone is living a life of known unrepentant sin they are in a saved state before God? Sorry brother God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. God's WORD says that hose who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter the kingdom of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son, neither do they know God *ROMANS 6:23. HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBERWS 6:4-8; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. You do not believe a Chritian is free to live a life of lawlessness now do you brother?

    Not really brother, your only repeating yourself now without addressing all the context you left out of your interpretation of LUKE 16:16 which is JESUS promoting God's LAW without addressing the post and scriptures that disagree with you. Here is the linked post here click me showing the context you left out of your interpretation.

    Sorry brother, God's WORD disagrees with you. 1 JOHN 2:3-4 is indeed talking about the 10 Commandments. This was proven in an earlier post showing that the context you leave out is sin (breaking any of God's 10 commandments) from 1 JOHN 2:1-2 in post # 957 linked click me. I have added nothing except to point you to context which is God's WORD not mine. You just chose to ignore this post and the scriptures in it that disagree with you. Sorry brother it is God's WORD not mine so your argument is with God not me.

    Sorry brother. You were provided the context of the gospel scripture and it disagrees with your interpretation of LUKE 16:16. Here is the linked post here click me showing the context you left out of your interpretation.

    Of course it is and it was shown why through the very scriptures and the post you are quoting from and have not addressed. God's 10 Commandments are not ceremonial they are Moral. The first four being our duty of LOVE to God and the second six our duty of LOVE to mankind (neighbore).

    Of course you can. If you read God's 4th commandments in EXODUS 20:8-11 it tells you exactly how to REMEMBER God's SEVENTH DAY Sabbath. No ceremony required. Simply remember creation and God the creator on this day and keep the day HOLY not doing any of your own work (includes buying and selling any business and domestic duties)

    Not at all where does it say that in the scriptures? Your mixing up the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT with God's eternal laws (the 10 Commandments)

    Easy one to answer. The Jewish annual feastivals of LEVITICUS 23 were guided by the timings of the NEW MOON and seasons. This means that each feastival could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. Also, many of these festivals went longer for seven days so Gods 4th commandment was included in with LEVITICUS 23. Also, there is a difference between the normal 4th commandment Sabbath and the days of "HOLY CONVOCATION". The Hebrew word used here is מקרא; miqrâ' which means something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading. These festival Sabbaths were special public gathering and meetings.

    God as the creator of heaven and earth and creation as a reminder of the power of God's WORD that sanctifies us *EXODUS 20:8-11; GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 31:13; JOHN 1:1-4; 14; JOHN 3:15-21.

    Brother, I have never accused you of lying. Do you know what a lie is? On the contrary I believe that you think what you believe is true that is why I am happy to discuss the scriptures with you.

    In HEBREWS 4:9 the GREEK word SABBATISMOS is a different Greek word used here in v9. In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.”

    But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”


    HEBREWS 4:9 So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

    Yep this does not say JESUS is a Sabbath and God's people are still to keep the day. This is also highlighted in HEBREWS 4:1-5; 10.

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. God's seventh day SABBATH was made in the creation week *GENESIS 2:1-3 where God's people had the spoken Word. The SABBATH was made before EGYPT and the JEWS ever existed.

    MATTHEW 11:28-30 is not the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH that is God's 4th Commandment that gives us a knowledge of sin if broken and one of ther 10 Commandments.

    You do know brother you did not answer any of the questions asked of you in the post you are quoting from right? Here let me post that passage again and please answer the questions asked of you.

    ............

    How can God's 4th commandment be a SHADOW law when all shadow laws were pointing to God's plan of salvation for mankind from SIN in the NEW COVENANT when the SABBATH was made BEFORE sin entered into the world and before God's plan of salvation was ever given to mankind? If you cannot answer these question with God's WORD it is because your statement above has no truth in it. God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH was made before SIN *GENESIS 2:1-3 so cannot be a SHADOW of anything as we was a part of the FINISHED work of creation when there was no sin. NO SIN = NO SHADOW law!

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Your mixing up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

    You do know there is the spoken Word and the written Word of God right *ROMANS 10:17? It was the written Word that was given at Sinai. The OLD COVENANT included both God's 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC book of the covenant. Together these made up God's written Word. God speaking and writting his eternal law *10 Commandments) and MOSES writing and speaking the SHADOW laws from the book of the covenant.

    Here brother you may wish to consider the following scriptures. Maybe you have not seen them before. Please take the time to consider these scriptures.

    GENESIS 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my LAWS.

    The HEBREW word used here brother for LAWS is תּורה תּרה; tôrâh From H3384; which means a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

    The scripture says Abraham kept God's TORAH which includes God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the sacrificial laws for remission of SIN and SIN offerings.

    GENESIS 22:6-8; 13
    [6], And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
    [7], And Isaac spoke to Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
    [8], And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

    [13], And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns:and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

    Burnt offereings were made for remission of SIN. What is SIN? Sin is disobedience to God's WORD and includes breaking God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4). It is God's WORD and his LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN (Romans 3:20)

    GENESIS 39:7-9
    [7], And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
    [8], But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
    [9], There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back anything from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

    If Joseph did NOT know God’s LAW then how did he know he was SINNING against God by committing adultery with Potiphar’s wife?

    The TORAH laws for remission of sin (SACRIFICIAL SIN OFFERINGS) were practiced BEFORE MOSES....

    Genesis 4:4
    [4], And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering.

    Genesis 8:20
    [20], And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar

    SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 Commandments) please read Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:11. God's LAW gives us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20) SIN offerings were only practiced in the OLD Covenant for the remission or forgiveness of SIN (Breaking God's 10 Commandments) If God's people did not have God's LAW why are they offering SIN offerings to God if these laws were only known about in Mt Sinai?

    Abraham and his son practiced and knew about sin offerings...

    Genesis 22:7-8
    [7], And Isaac spoke unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
    [8], And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

    Exodus 10:25
    [25], And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.

    So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the spoken Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the written Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin was committed before Mt Sinai through the spoken Word of God and after Mt Sinai through the written Word of God.

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.

    Not really brother. It is God's WORD not mine that says God's 10 commandments are forever. I am only emphasizing the point.

    PSALMS 119:142-143 Your righteousness is an EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, and Your law is truth. Trouble and anguish have overtaken me, yet Your commandments are my delights.

    PSALMS 119:172 My tongue shall speak of your word for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS


    PSALMS 119:160 All your words are true; ALL YOUR RIGHTEOUS LAWS ARE ETERNAL.

    ECCLESIASTES 3:14, I know that, WHATSOEVER GOD DOES, IT SHALL BE FOREVER: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God does it, that men should fear before him.

    EXODUS 32:16, And THE TABLES WERE THE WORK OF GOD, AND THE WRITING WAS THE WRITING OF GOD, graven on the tables.

    ISAIAH 40:8 [8], The grass wither, the flower fades: but THE WORD OF THE LORD OF OUR GOD SHALL ENDURE FOREVER.

    EXODUS 20:1-17 GOD SPOKE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (v1)

    Sorry brother it is God's WORD not mine.

    Not really brother. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. IF yo uare not a part of God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.
    Detailed scripture support here linked click me.

    Sorry brother that statement has no truth in it. Your mixing up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD pointed to?

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    You do know brother, that this post does not respond to anything you are quoting from right? Also, you seem confused, you cannot have the Gospel without the law. Jesus came to save us from sin. God's WORD defines sin as the transgression of God's law *1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7. Pehaps you may need to revisit the scriptures here brother. If you claim there is no law then there is no knowledge of what sin is. This disagrees with God's WORD *ROMANS 3:20.
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Your question was answered in detail in post # 1001 linked at the top of this page. If you do not understand what the shadow laws are from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD pointed to? Your mixing up God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us the knowledfge of what sin is if broken with the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the covenant *EXODUS 24:7 that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW.
     
  10. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if you think all things aren't fulfilled as Mat 5 mentions? What do you think Jesus is talking about? Why doesn't Luke 24:44 make it plain what needed to be fulfilled for the New Covenant to be activated? Jesus couldn't give every detail in Mat 5 for a reason. Those details were filled in after the resurrection.
     
  11. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Since you're promoting obligation to a defunct covenant why do I need to discuss every passage you post when a single passage proves you wrong? I find no value in discussing irrelevant past. I enjoy talking about the present covenant and my relationship with Jesus.
    No you're not merely just sharing Scripture. You're clearly evangelizing Christians to forsake grace for the law for salvation. Jesus said - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. You promote one can only come to the Father if they also keep the covenant given to Israel. There's nothing in the NT to support that. You directly oppose the Gospel in that Luke says the law was while you say the law is. You don't accept the NT as Scripture.
    Yes you avoid Luke 16:16, 24:44; John 1:17; 3; 5:24, 15:1-10; Rom 7:6; Gal 3-5; 1 John 3:23 like the plague for starters.

    I'll borrow this from your post and make it a statement of mine. Sounds like you need a new bible brother. Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  12. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    If that were only true.
    The words of Jeremiah 31:31-33 aren't my words, nor is accepting the definitions of the words used mine. You fail to understand the words 'but I say..." as something different. You dismiss Luke 16:16 with v 17. You don't accept John 1:17 and a long list of other NT passages.
    It seems that you say not obeying a rescinded law is a violation. So you resort to condemnation by something not current. You claim the Christian is graft into Israel against what the verse says. It says "in among them." It's you that doesn't agree with Scripture.
    So very sorry but "The law and the prophets were until John" isn't my interpretation.
    You continue to make this unqualified statement about 1 Jn 2:3-4. I showed you what is being said via Scripture - not my words here:JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!
    You don't understand you have identities mixed up.
    Sorry but v 17 doesn't void v 16 vice-a-versa. The truth is you don't believe verse 16 or even Jn 1:17.
    There's no need to. When I do you simply claim against the evidence I haven't. You just make a wild unsupported claim proven to be false as shown with my link.
    Why aren't you compliant with your own referenced passage? Tell you what, I'll make you a deal. If you provide independent testimony for a year that every sabbath you've disconnected from the utilities with picture proof, name address and phone number to my pm here, I'll consider taking up your position and forsake grace for the law.
    The weekly sabbath heads the list in Lev 23.

    2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

    3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
    You want to ignore that for some reason.
    If you keep repeating this I will quote you for proof. It will be a long post.
    So you say that "sabbatismos" is a word meaning "sabbaton." Why then isn't the word "sabbaton" used? Isn't it because that isn't the same thing? Greek is very specific.

    You do quote something outside of general acceptance for support. The Aramaic isn't generally accepted. The evidence is it's polluted. It doesn't even agree with the doctored Westcott and Hort.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    MATTHEW 5:17-18
    [17], Think not that I am come to destroy the <1> law, or <2> the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to <3> fulfill.

    NOTE: JESUS did not come to destroy or stop καταλύω; kataluō the law or the prophets (this is referring to torah both the 10 commandments and the Mosaic book of the covenant prophets and psalms).

    The GREEK word fulfill used πληρόω; plēroō here has many applications depending on the context of use. The many meanings of fulfil πληρόω; plēroō are From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

    In the context above we are referring to the law, prophets and Psalms. The CONTEXT is that JESUS has not come to destroy or bring to an END. So the GREEK word use here for fulfill based on the rules of CONTEXT cannot mean bring to an end or expire. The meaning here then considering the GREEK word and primary context not to destroy being used then is to SATISFY, to EXECUTE, ACCOMPLISH, PERFECT or FULFILL the requirements of the LAW and the PROPHETS and PSALMS which were spoken of JESUS.

    [18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    NOTE: The topic is still the same here in v18 and the CONTEXT therefore is still the LAW and the prophets and Psalms. This passage is referring to HEAVEN and EARTH passing away. This does not take place until after the SECOND COMING. As HEAVEN and EARTH have not passed away and as yet there has been no SECOND COMING it should be very clear that all things concerning CHRIST and God's plan of salvation for mankind written in the law and the prophets and Psalms have NOT YET BEEN FULFILLED.

    ..............

    CONCLUSION The GREEK meaning of fulfill in v17 πληρόω; plēroō defines it's meaning from the CONTEXT of application which is JESUS saying he has not come to destroy or bring to an end the law and the prophets (torah) the GREEK application for fulfill then cannot mean bring to an end as this is not the meaning of the context used before by JESUS saying he has not come to bring to an end (destroy). The context meaning of fulfill in v17 πληρόω; plēroō therefore means to SATISFY, to EXECUTE, ACCOMPLISH, PERFECT or FULFILL the requirements of the LAW and the PROPHETS and PSALMS which were spoken of JESUS.
    Not all thing have been fulfilled concerning JESUS in the law and the prophets and Psalms as Heaven and Earth have not passed away and there has not been a second coming to complete God's plan of salvation for mankind so not all things have been fulfilled. What has been fulfilled is Christs work on earth but not in HEAVEN.

    ..............

    All of the above is then verified by JESUS in the following scripture CONTEXT in

    MATTHEW 5:19-22; 31-32
    [19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    [20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    [21], You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
    [22], But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    [31], It has been said, Whoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorce:
    [32], But I say to you, That whoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery: and whoever shall marry her that is divorced commits adultery.

    NOTE: The application here in v19-32 changes to specifically focus now on God's 10 commandments where JESUS is saying whoever breaks any one of God's 10 Commandmetns shall be called the least in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN; that is by those already there. The least in the KINGDOM of HEAVEN are those who do not go there. The application of here of the 10 Commandments is shown in v20-22 and v32 where JESUS uses examples of the commandments he is referring to citing "YOU SHALL NOT KILL" and "COMMIT ADULTERY" which are two of God's 10 Commandments found in EXODUS 20:13-14.
    It is pretty clear here that if JESUS came to put an end to God's 10 Commandments he would not be teaching them and increasing their application to the inside out in verses 19-22 and verses 31-32.

    ..............

    CONCLUSION: JESUS did not come to destroy the law or the prophets he came to fulfill them. They are not yet all fulfilled. Christs work on earth is fulfilled but not God's plan of salvation which is also written in the law and the prophets and Psalms. God's eternal law (the 10 Commandments) are not abolished and not to be broken because doing so is sin. None who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they reject the free gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. God's WORD says that God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 Commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11. If we KNOWINGLY continue to break it just like any other of the 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of sin and the wages of sin is death *ROMANS 6:23.

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Now brother, that statement has no truth in it. All I am hearing from you is your own words over God's WORD. If you have God's WORD to share then share it. Ignoring the posts and scriptures provided only as a help to you do not make all the scriptures that disagree with you magically disappear. You are free to believe as you wish I do not judge you. Our salvation is between us and God. We all answer only to God come judgment day to the WORD of GOD we choose to BELIEVE or NOT BELIEVE *JOHN 12:47-48. It is God's WORD not mine. If you choose to believe God's WORD then BELIEVE, if you do not BELIEVE then it is between you and God. If you do not wish to discuss God's WORD than you do not have to and no one is forcing you to.

    It is the past that leads us to the future. If you do not know where you came from how will you know where your going to? Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God *MATTHEW 4:4. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT points to? You cannot have Grace without law. Likewise how can you have salvation without sin (breaking God's 10 Commandments) if salvation is from sin. If there is no law there is no Gospel and no relationship with JESUS as he does not know those who continue in known unrepentant sin *MATTHEW 7:13-23; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:6-8.

    Well that has no truth in it brother. All I am hearing here is your own words over God's WORD. Did you have any scripture to share? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27. God however is not willing that anyone should perish and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable. When a KNOWLEDGE of the truth comes however God expect us to repent and BELIEVE the GOSPEL (the Word) unless we become UNBELIEVERS *2 PETER 3:9; ACTS 17:30-31. No UNBELIVER enters into God's KINGDOM * JOHN 3:15-21.
    There is no grace without law because there is no knowledge of sin. *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

    INDEED! This is all I am sharing with you. JESUS is the LIVING WORD of GOD *JOHN 1:1-4; 14. If we do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW him we do not KNOW him *1 JOHN 2:3-4

    Well that is not true brother. We are in the NEW COVENANT now. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT points to? God's ISRAEL accoring to the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.
    More scripture on who God's ISRAEL are here click me. Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.

    Now brother that is not true at all. Your error here is that you mix up God's shadow laws with those that are eternal that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. I accept all scripture as God's WORD and God's WORD says we must live by every word of it *MATTHEW 4:4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16 not some of it. If we do not KNOW God's WORD how can we him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another?

    Well that has no truth in it brother. I love these scriptures. They are God's WORD. It is your interpretation of them as shown in previous posts however that is in error. If you disagree please feel free to respond to all the posts and scriptures that disagree with you. If you cannot why not believe the scriptures posted as a help to you that disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures you have posted? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. *ROMANS 3:4.

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.
     
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    No brother it is God's WORD that disagrees with you as shown in all the posts and scriptures provided only as a help in love that shows that you leave out the context of the surrounding scriptures that disagree with your interpretation of the scriptures you have provided. If you disagree please address the posts and all the scriptures provided in love to show your errors. If not you are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you. Maybe we should agree to disagree as you simply keep repeating yourself without addressing any of the posts and scriptures that disagree with your teachings.

    What recinded law are you talking about? You mix up your shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26; EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 commandments) *EXODUS 20:1-17 that give us the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS in both the OLD and NEW COVENANTS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. These are God's WORD brother in the NEW COVENANT not mine.

    Well that is not true brother. I am only a sinner in need of salvation like everyone here. I share God's WORD alone. Condemnation from the scriptures is only over SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 Commandments). If we confess our sins JESUS and faithful and just and ready to FORGIVE us our sins and CLEANSE us from all unrighteosness *1 JOHN 1:9. HOWEVER, if anyone of us are CONTINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN breaking any one of God's 10 Commandments, then we stand guilty before God of SIN (breaking God's 10 Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11. Sin will keep all those who practice it out of God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

    Nope not at all brother. Gentiles are grafted in among God's ISRAEL; to be a part of ISRAEL on the same ROOT as BELIEVING ISRAEL which is CHRIST. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. More scripture on who God's ISRAEL are here click me. Sorry brother it is God's WORD not mine.

    Your only repeating yourself here without addressing all the posts and scriptures that disagree with you. The scriptures for MATTHEW 5 have already provided to you showing that your interpretation of fulfilled leaves out the context of JESUS not destroying with the primary CONTEXT being JESUS has not come to destroy or do away with the torah but fulfil or execute it's requirements. JESUS then continues to teach the correct application of the 10 Commandments is from the inside out using the example of not killing and not committing adultery. This shows your in error in relation to your interpretation of MATTHEW 5 and for that matter most of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures as shown here click me.

    Well that has no truth in it brother. You were shown that the CONTEXT of 1 JOHN 2:3-4 is is found in 1 JOHN 2:1 and that CONTEXT is that we SIN NOT!. Your post and claims were responded to a few posts latter in great detail here click me. You simply ignored the post and all the scriptures that disagree with your claims that 1 JOHN 2:3-4 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments when God's WORD defines SIN as transgression of any one of God's 10 Commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7. Here is the post you ignored and all the scriptures that disagree with your claim here click me. Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. It is God's WORD not mine. So your argument is with God not me.

    Not at all brother. Your only repeating yourself here without addressing the post and all the scriptures in them that disagree with you found here click me showing the context you leave out of the interpretation of the scriptures, as well as other posts just posted recently. Please feel free to address these posts and scriptures that disagree with you. They are God's WORD not mine. All I am hearing here is your words not God's. Did you have any scripture to share? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

    No need to comment here only your words and none of God's without addressing the post you are responding to.

    Not really brother, I have not ignored anything. As shown earlier in the scriptures you have ignored and not responded to. Your mixing up the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal laws (the 10 Commandments) *EXODUS 20:1-17.

    The Jewish annual feastivals of LEVITICUS 23 were guided by the timings of the NEW MOON and seasons. This means that each feastival could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. Also, many of these festivals went longer for seven days so Gods 4th commandment was included in with LEVITICUS 23. Also, there is a difference between the normal 4th commandment Sabbath and the days of "HOLY CONVOCATION". The Hebrew word used here is מקרא; miqrâ' which means something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading. These festival Sabbaths were special public gathering and meetings.

    Please go ahead and also add a definition of what lying is.
    Nope I am not. Where does it say in anything that I have posted that "sabbatismos" is "sabbaton"? I suggest you read what was posted to you which was...

    In HEBREWS 4:9 the GREEK word SABBATISMOS is a different Greek word used here in v9. In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.”

    But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

    HEBREWS 4:9 So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

    Yep this does not say JESUS is a Sabbath and God's people are still to keep the day. This is also highlighted in HEBREWS 4:1-5; 10.

    Now that does not say what you are claiming now does it?

    Hope this helps.
     
  16. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Scripture I post isn't my words. You won't accept the words of LK 16:16 because you claim v 17 invalidates v 16. IOW you pit the Scripture against itself making it nothing more than a foolish work of fiction.
     
  17. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Oh how I wished that were true.
     
  18. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was also slain before the foundation of the world.

    REv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    I never said Jesus is the 7th day. I did and still say Jesus is my sabbatismos, which isn't the 7th day. Hebrews 4 isn't about the 7th day (sabbaton).
    Please located the word "shabbath" in Genesis. If you can't you've no argument.
    Rom 3:20 doesn't indicate obligation to the law (famous 10), neither does 7:7 with which you try to invalidate v 6.

    1 Jn 3:4 doesn't promote the law (famous 10) as an obligation. You steadfastly refuse to read a small word in the text "also." That won't allow your intention of only and always. Sin was before the world - Rom 5:13 and the law (famous 10) were added because of sin - Gal 3:19.

    Ps 119:172 has nothing to do with our discussion.
    So are the word of Jesus. Here you clearly don't accept the NT that Christians call Scripture.
    Have both seen and quoted that in my posts here. I've also posted Deut 5 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

    2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

    3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

    The words of Moses you refuse to accept.
    Then Moses lied in Deuteronomy 5.
    None of which prove anyone prior to the departure from Egypt had or were required to keep the law. The law didn't invent sacrifice for atonement or any other purpose.
     
  19. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    It makes a reference to a prior post.
     
  20. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    No. You only posted some of the things Jesus fulfilled. You artfully didn't admit that all things were fulfilled concerning Jesus as mentioned in Lk 24:44 referencing Mat 5.
     
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