• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    To be Holy or Holiness

    What is the meaning of holiness or holy? There are a few meanings in Hebrew and Greek depending on the scripture and context. In relation to God's Law (10 commandments) it means; HO'LINESS, n. from H2623; חסיד; châsı̂yd; khaw-seed' Greek; G2150; εὐσέβεια; eusebeia; yoo-seb'-i-ah [from holy.] The state of being holy; purity or integrity of moral character; freedom from sin; sanctity or set apart. Applied to the Supreme Being, holiness denotes perfect purity or integrity of moral character, one of his essential attributes. Godliness (like God in character). Therefore to be holy or practice holiness is in reference to God's Law (10 commandments) to have a character like God which is fulfilled by love (Romans 13:9-10). We can only find it in Jesus as we seek him by faith in his Word.

    1Peter 1:15-16

    15, But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16, Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

    Ephesians 1:4

    According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

    Romans 7:12

    Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    Romans 6:19

    I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

    Romans 6:22
    But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life

    2 Corinthians7:1

    Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    Ephesians 4:24

    And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    1 Thessalonians 3:13
    To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.3

    1 Thessalonians 4:7
    For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

    Hebrews 12:14
    Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
     
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Abiding in Christ

    Jesus says; abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in me,1 and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

    Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and thou hears the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Are you a teacher of God's people and know not these things?

    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Sin is the transgression of God's Law and who so ever sins has neither seen him or known him. He that commits sin is a servant to sin but if the Son of Man shall make you free you shall be free indeed. This is the parable the seed is the Word of God.
    For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
    Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. By grace are you saved through faith and not of yourselves it is a gift of God lest any man should boast. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
    They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick but go and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    How much of the above was my words? He must increase and I must decrease.Only God's Word is true.

    James 2:8-12

    8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

    This also includes the 7th Day Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11). If we knowingly break any of God's Laws and are not repentant we are guilty before God of breaking all of God's Law and are in danger of the Judgement.

    In Christ Always!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  3. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    Well as you know, I don't read long posts. So if you inserted that into ling posts I would have missed it. It just surprised me you did not refer to the Holy Spirit in the posts I responded to
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    How does Faith ESTABLISH the law? Romans.3:31

    Personal Testimony


    For me many years ago. I believed that I needed to keep God's Law (10 commandments) for my salvation accepting the death and life of Jesus. I was very exacting in what I believed at the time and tried to be very strict in my observance to obey God's Law. I found after some time that the harder I tried the more I saw myself as a sinner going through a cycle of sinning, confessing and repenting the same old sins, until I was ready to give up in discouragement. I also saw myself on the inside. Sometimes I was outwardly never breaking God's Laws but in my thinking it was not a very nice place to be at all. Where was this love I was supposed to have for others. I knew deep down inside that I did not really love people like Jesus wanted me to.

    What now? Reading God's Word Jesus is telling me even if I look on a woman to lust I have already committed adultery applying God's Law to my very thoughts? Ok here I lost all hope..... Condemned as a sinner....... All my righteousness now was as it is plainly to be seen, filthy rags. I have finally given up all hope of trying to keep God's Law. There is finally nothing that I can do to save myself.

    It was at this place for the very first time in my life I met Jesus. I could finally see that it was he who died on the cross for my sins and that I was the Chiefest of sinners of whom Christ had come to save! I knew for the very first time in my life that Jesus had come into the world not to save the righteous but bring sinners to repentance. Before I was righteous (in my own eyes) but now I can see myself just how God sees me, sick with sin in need of a Savoir. The Law of God was my schoolmaster that brought me to the cross to meet Jesus for the first time. Here I was at the cross, all undone my complete dependence was no longer on what I could do, but was only on what God's Word says it would do. For the first time I had complete dependence on the Word of God to do what it says it would do and that Jesus was holding out His free gift of salvation to me all he wanted me to do was to believe His Word and it was mine. I saw for the very first time that I love Him because He first loved me.

    Now I walk with him. His commandments that brought me to him are no longer his commandments. They are his promises and as I received Jesus I live in Jesus, by faith in his Word to do what it says it will do. Now I obey and follow him because I love him. He has made me free in Him and given me power to walk with him in newness of life. Now I follow the God of creation by faith and dependence on the Word only to do what it says it will do. I love Jesus and His Word. His Words are spirit and they are life! I worship Jesus everyday. I follow His Word by faith and it is he that works in my as I believe His Word. For the very first time I am free in Him, He changes me day by day as I believe His Word. A counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.

    Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?

    Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 24). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Romans 2:12).

    God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matthew 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.

    The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Saviour and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of God’s Word. (2 Peter 1:4) It is here as we believe God that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).

    People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfillment of His new Covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1 John 3:6)

    In Christ Always!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Post # 75. Not too long attached here. Most verses referring to the promise of the Holy Spirit
     
  6. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    In regards to rom 3:31

    Do we then nullify the law by this faith( a righteousness if faith in Christ not observing the law) not at all! Rather we uphold the law.

    Paul had spent the previous ten verses stressing the believer will not be declared righteous by observing the law, has righteousness apart from the law, and cannot be justified by observing the law. What may some of his readers have thought?

    If we have no justification/ righteousness of observing the law, we are free to ignore G ods laws and live as we like. Hence rom 3:31

    But there is a deep spiritual message in the verse.
    The power of sin is the law 1cor15:56

    When the law was given sin increased
    Rom5:20

    Sinfull passions are aroused in you by the law if you live under it
    Rom7:5

    Pauls core message is of dying to a law of righteousness in order for sin not to be your master( rom6:14)
    For the true power of sin is a law of righteousness.
    However for many, Pauls message is too hard to accept.
    So they always insert:
    You can only be in a righteous/ saved state if you do not commit sin/ observe the law.
    They always fall short of understanding/accepting the truth, for it must be spiritually discerned. They in effect, have to cling to righteousness of observing the law
     
  7. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    Therefore no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight by observing the law( which is not committing sin) rather through the law we become conscious of sin
    Rom3: 20
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    I will just comment on the above section. That is what I have been sharing here with you earlier (see below)
    We are only saved as we have faith in Jesus and his Word to save us from our sins. It is through Love that God changes us to follow him. Not by observing God's Law. However obedience is the fruit of faith (Romans 3:31)
     
  9. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    Satan is subtle, and he desperately wants people to live under righteousness of observing the law, for he knows Paul correctly stated
    The power of sin is the law.
    So by subtle means he convinced people not to in reality accept righteousness apart from observing the law for it would mean a licence to sin
     
  10. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    Sin is the transgression of the law
    Therefore if committing sin places you under the law and guilty before God.
    Failing to observe the law places you under the law and guilty before God.

    You cannot seperate those two sentences, they mean exactly the same thing
     
  11. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    You may say on the one hand sin shall not be your master for you are not under righteousness if observing the law but under grace.

    However, a belief that being in a saved state hinges on not committing sin/ observing the law, does place the believer under righteousness if observing the law. This, is what you are unable to see
     
  12. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    What kind of Christianity does a person have?
    People are called to surrender their lives to Christ, ask him to be Lord and saviour of their lives. Such people will never be in a saved state dependant in observing the law. For their christianity is based in yielding their lives to Christ

    But those who seek a Christianity based on obeying Gods laws, will always be under righteousness of observing the law. For that is the religion they want
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    I think where you may be having difficulty is that I believe that salvation from sin is being saved from sin and being free not to sin (John 8:31-32: 36). This can only be achieved by faith in Jesus as we believe His Word (Ephesians 2:8-9). If your observing the law for your salvation you are not having faith in God's Word to save you from your sins. What I have highlighted here and in other posts in this thread shows that obedience is the fruit of faith and not observance of the Law. It is by faith in God's Word that we Abide in Christ who is the Word of God (Romans 3:31; 1 John 3:3-10; 1 John 2:2-4). This is why the statements you made above in my view are not the same because it is faith in Christ (the Word) that establishes the Law in the heart of the believer and not the observance of the Law. If you are in unrepentant sin you are not abiding in Christ by faith. Hope this helps

    In Christ Always!
     
  14. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    I'm not having any difficulty at all. I will once again repeat.
    If you say
    If you commit sin you are under the law and guilty before God
    It is exactly the same as saying
    If you fail to observe the law you are under the law and guilty before God

    The difficulty us yours in not understanding the two sentences mean exactly the same thing
    BTW
    You are saved in sin, then by following the truth of the gospel message you live an ever holier life
     
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Stuart, maybe it will help our conversation if I ask you some simple questions. If someone is professing to be a christian but is living a life of unrepentant sin are they in a saved state or an unsaved state? (some scriptures to look at; Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrew 6:4-8; Romans 2:12-13; Romans 3:19; Romans 3:9; Romans 3:19; )
     
  16. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    I've already given you the simple answer many, many times.
    A truly born again Christian will always repent of their sin as surely as night follows day
     
  17. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    At least you did not deny the two sentences stated mean exactly the same thing
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    No the question was in regards to someone that is in unrepentant sin. If someone is professing to be a christian but is living a life of unrepentant sin are they in a saved state or an unsaved state? (some scriptures to look at; Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrew 6:4-8; Romans 2:12-13; Romans 3:19; Romans 3:9; Romans 3:19) Are you able to answer the question?
     
  19. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    Would you naturally repent, as surely as night follows day if you offend the one you love? Of course you would.
    . Christianity is based in a loving relatiinship with God through his sons sacrifice for you.
    The greatest comnandment is to love God with all your heart, body, soul, mind and strength.
    How could such a person as obeyed the greatest commandment not repent of sin????
    It would be impossible
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  20. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    I've already answered it time and time again.
    And you are citing scripture that does not state Unrepentant sin
     
Loading...