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JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Sep 13, 2017.

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  1. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Apparently, you didn't understand a word I wrote. You just keep coming back with all your canned, out of context, rhetoric. All I can do is pray and feel sorry for you.

    Paraphrasing what I wrote is this: My parents had a law that I was not allowed to climb the cherry tree. Now Johnny, who lived next door, didn't have this command by his parents. He was allowed to climb the tree any time he pleased. For me it was a sin, but for Johnny it was perfectly his choosing to climb or not.

    God gave Israel the laws of the Sinai covenant. For them it was sin to break any one of them. God didn't give me all those laws, so am I sinning when I don't observe laws given exclusively to Israel? Was Johnny somehow sinning even though he was not under the law?
     
  2. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

    (CLV) Mt 15:24
    Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    YHWH's renewed covenant is with Israel.

    (CLV) Hb 8:10
    "For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

    (CLV) Ro 2:11
    For there is not partiality with God,

    (CLV) Ro 2:12
    for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

    (CLV) Ro 2:13
    For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

    You see, without the Torah we perish.
     
  3. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did Johnny sin?
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    It is exactly what scripture says. Here is the part you left out....

    It was already answered earlier as all sin which was already stated and why I added the context back in. Hebrews 10:1 says [1], For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

    The Greek used here in "year by year" ἐνιαυτός is a derivation: prolongation from a primary ἔνος (a year) meaning continually throughout the year. That is all sins throughout the year by year could not make the comers thereunto perfect. So we are talking about all sin that was brought into the earthly Sanctuary throughout the year

    For example other translations of Hebrews 10:1 say it this way...

    Young's Literal Translation
    For the law having a shadow of the coming good things -- not the very image of the matters, every year, by the same sacrifices that they offer continually, is never able to make perfect those coming near,

    American Standard Version
    For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh.

    New American Standard Bible
    For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the form of those things itself, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually every year, make those who approach perfect.

    Berean Literal Bible
    For the Law, having a shadow of the good things coming, not the form of the things themselves, never is able each year, with the same sacrifices which they offer continually, to perfect those drawing near.

    All sin was to be brought into the Sanctuary every year by year which culminated in the cleansing of all sin from the Sanctuary on the great day of atonement once a year which leads us into Hebrews 10:3

    .............

    Now in Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. Reference to Leviticus 23:27-32 which is the great day of atonement (Yom Kippur) or the cleansing of the Sanctuary from all the sins of God's people collected throughout the year. So back to the original answer that was already provided = Yom Kippur is ATONEMENT FOR ALL SIN and the cleansing of the Sanctuary for all sin through out the year! In the new covenant Jesus death on the cross is God's sacrifice for all the sins of the whole World (John 1:29) once and for all *Hebrews 10:10. Jesus paid the penalty for our sins with His own blood so that we can have God's forgiveness.

    ..............

    God's Word not mine dear friend. Now what is it that you do not believe here?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    And what strawman argument would that be?
     
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    What is a Jew in the new covenant?

    Romans 2:28-29 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    God's Israel in the new covenant is no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who through faith are now born of the Spirit according to the promise *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29. If we are not true Jews born inwardly of the Spirit we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. We are all now one in Christ and gentiles are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. God's Israel are all those now who believe and follow Gods' Word according to the scriptures.

    Hope this is helpful
     
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Your response here...
    Bob all I see here are your words here disagreeing with God's Word in the post you are quoting from which are not my words but God's Words. You disagree here with your words without showing why you disagree. So we may need to agree to disagree. There is no need to be upset when only scripture is posted and shared with you that may disagree with you. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. That would be between you and God.
     
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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  11. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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    I know it is a waste of time, but you set up a false narrative...you and Johnny have the same Father, The Creator of all. Again, do you think God just made up the Torah at Sinai? Gentile nations were punished for sin. Adam was not a Jew and he sinned (sin is the transgression of the law). Neither was Abraham a Jew... Genesis 26:5
     
  12. HIM

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    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godliness; so that they are without excuse:
    Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godliness; so that they are without excuse:
    Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
    Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
    Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
     
  13. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your false narrative is neither Adam of Abraham was under the laws of the Sinai covenant. Torah = the five books of Moses constituting the Pentateuch and the word was invented in 1547AD. To try to tell us Adam had the first five books of Scripture is a false narrative. Man is born with the sense of right and wrong. Morality laws are forever. Adam had the laws of morality and we have the same laws. When we treat our fellow man with the love Jesus asked us to do, we are keeping the laws of morality just as man has done or should have done since the beginning. All the extra laws of the Torah were excess baggage and taken away at Calvary.

    It has been a waste of time trying to get some to realize the real truth of Jesus words in John 15. 9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

    The commands Jesus kept was Torah. The commands Jesus asked the disciples to keep were Jesus commands. They are the same commands Jesus disciples are to keep today.
     
  14. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Good point.

    When Paul wrote this, it was the TaNaK, and maybe what is now considered apocrypha by some, that was considered to be scripture.

    Paul taught almost exclusively from the TaNaK.
     
  15. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Your derivation doesn't line up with all scripture.

    Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

    The Kohen Gadol was not delegated to making all types of sacrifices, therefore that responsibility would not have been transferred. YHWH covenant with the Levitical Priesthood is eternal; and they will be making sacrifices in the Kingdom to come.

    Aside for that, the Apostles continued to contribute to YHWH's table, long after Yahshua had ascended.
     
  16. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Post# 2094 directly quotes your post, and makes a scripture reference.

    I agree that it's misinformation; and the source of that misinformation is not the cited scripture.
     
  17. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Your additions to Yah's word, do not qualify as Yah's word.

    Certainly we disagree on this point.
     
  18. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Weird... I almost missed this response, as I didn't get an alert that you quoted my post. That would have been a shame.

    Clearly, in my mind, Yahshua was delegated the tasks of the Kohen Gadol; and as I was working my study, that was the context that I was looking for regarding his role, and what we can learn from what was commanded regarding YHWH's table.

    However, Yahshua is our Pesach. The Pesach has a much different purpose than the Yom Kippurim.

    If Israel had conformed to the covenant that they had entered; day to day sin sacrifices would not have been offered.

    Israel would have honored their threshold covenant, as they accepted YHWH into their family.

    Now it seems that the covenant is reversed. In other words, it is YHWH who is putting the blood on his threshold, and inviting us into his home, to be members of his family.

    "I am the door."

    You can review this portion of my study here:

    YHWH's Table (Part 8A)
     
  19. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    "God's Israel" are all those now who believe in and trust on the person and atoning work (blood--Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and permanent right standing (position) with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty;" permanently removed from their sin ever being charged against them; rightesous; sanctified.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
  20. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by "in covenant"?
    Which covenant?

    Great discussion, btw!
     
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