JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[Danthemailman]

View attachment 301363

What dictionary are you using?

Same dictionary as you. So you don’t think this willful sin is ongoing? Do you think it’s a one time slip up?

 

[Leaf473]

Fortunately I have not been faced with the dilemma of choosing between Yah's law, and man's law. I would counsel others to seek out our heavenly Father; and ask him to make a way to do his will.

If you lived in a country where polygamy was legal, then you would be eager to do it, as the law says?

But in a western nation, wouldn't following God's law be more important than following man's law?

I'm certainly not a legal expert, but even in the USA there's probably workarounds. You could have consensual sex with your sister-in-law and support her and any children she bears financially. That would fulfill the physical requirements of the law, imo.

 

[HARK!]

Same dictionary as you. So you don’t think this willful sin is ongoing? Do you think it’s a one time slip up?

Let's pretend that you are on a jury.

If someone, planned to kidnap, bind, torture, and execute, just one time; then he carried out that plan; would you find him 'not guilty' because he only did it once; therefore it wasn't willful?

A "slip up" is very much different in my mind.

A slip up is when a drunken hobo, jumps out of the bushes, in the night, and runs out in front of your car, as you close your eyes to sneeze.

He's just as dead as the man who was tortured to death; but there was no intent to willfully kill.

 

[HARK!]

If you lived in a country where polygamy was legal, then you would be eager to do it, as the law says?

But in a western nation, wouldn't following God's law be more important than following man's law?

I'm certainly not a legal expert, but even in the USA there's probably workarounds. You could have consensual sex with your sister-in-law and support her and any children she bears financially. That would fulfill the physical requirements of the law, imo.

Do you think that Yahshua was eager to follow his father's instructions to go to the torture stake?

 

[Leaf473]

Do you think that Yahshua was eager to follow his father's instructions to go to the torture stake?

No, I don't think Jesus was eager to go to the cross, but that was probably because of the physical and emotional pain, imo.

But it might not be painful to have your sister-in-law essentially as a mistress. It might even be fun.

So if you have God's blessing, away you go!

At least that's how it looks to me, following that approach to law keeping.

 

[HARK!]

Who says that a better covenant negates the Torah? If I never said it does why are you pretending that I did? As posted earlier the new covenant is based on better promises. This does not negate the old covenant but much of the laws for remission of sins from the earthly Sanctuary system, Priesthood, animal sacrifice for sin are now fulfilled in the body of Christ

This is doublespeak.

The Hebrew word תורה is translated into the Greek word νομον which have been translated into the English word law.

They are one in the same.

 

[HARK!]

I just posted it in the scripture you were quoting from (Hebrews 10:10) all sin, Your not reading my posts again.

In case you didn't realize it; the Book of Hebrews is not in the TaNaK. I'll assume that you didn't know that; as I wouldn't want to falsely accuse you of not reading my posts.

I hope this helps.

P.S. Hebrews 10:10 makes no mention of "all sin."

You might want to read that again.

 

[HARK!]

You did not provide any answer accept to quote the scriptures I already gave you.

Scripture provided an answer.

Can you explain the difference between a קרבן and a זבח?

 

[HARK!]

But it might not be painful to have your sister-in-law essentially as a mistress. It might even be fun.

A mistress? Is that what you think that this is about? I don't view providing for my dead brother's wife as a way to have fun.

 

[Leaf473]

A mistress? Is that what you think that this is about? I don't view providing for my dead brother's wife as a way to have fun.

Actually, I think it's about taking care of women who don't have another means of support.

Back then if your husband died and you had no sons, you could be in bad shape. Like Naomi.

Legally she would be in the role of mistress, that's how one could get around polygamy laws. Once one makes the decision to keep that law, might as well have the most positive outlook towards it, imo.

***************
But we probably talked about that enough.

I think there is a law about stoning someone who works on the Sabbath. Again, there's laws against it. But is that the only thing keeping you from physically following through with that commandment?

 

[HARK!]

I think there is a law about stoning someone who works on the Sabbath. Again, there's laws against it. But is that the only thing keeping you from physically following through with that commandment?

It's not just someone. It's someone who is in covenant in the nation of Israel.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you understand the meaning of a strawman argument?

Indeed.

The word is אשמתו. I choose not to add nor subtract from YHWH's word.

And אשמתו means what exactly?

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H819
אַשְׁמָה (ʼashmâh | ash-maw')
Derivation: feminine of אָשָׁם;
Strong's: guiltiness, a fault, the presentation of a sin-offering
KJV: offend, sin, (cause of) trespass(-ing, offering).
Cognate Group: H819 (offend), H816 ([idiom] certainly), H818 (one which is faulty), H817 (guiltiness)

I choose not to add of subtract from YHWH's word too

Hope this is helpful.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Who says that a better covenant negates the Torah? If I never said it does why are you pretending that I did? As posted earlier the new covenant is based on better promises. This does not negate the old covenant but much of the laws for remission of sins from the earthly Sanctuary system, Priesthood, animal sacrifice for sin are now fulfilled in the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17 once for all *Hebrews 10:10 to which they pointed to and are now fulfilled and continued in Christ as our great high Priest ministering on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary which the Lord pitched and not man *Hebrews 8:1-6.

Your response here...

This is doublespeak. The Hebrew word תורה is translated into the Greek word νομον which have been translated into the English word law. They are one in the same.

Not at all dear friend. You seem to be making arguments no one is making so you can argue with yourself on this one. Once again what has your post here have to do with what you are quoting from? - Nothing. If I never said the new covenant negates the torah why are you trying to make arguments pretending that I did? The old covenant laws and Priesthood for remission of sins are fulfilled and continued in the body of Christ to who they point to in the new covenant based on better promises with Jesus ministering on our behalf in an heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man (Hebrews 8:1-6)

Hope this is helpful

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes! Context is key.

True that is why I provided it. What does it say to you?

You didn't answer my question. I'll rephrase it so that you can better understand the question. "those sacrifices which they offered year by year" "But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year." Which sacrifices were made by the High Priests once per year? Does that sacrifice negate any other instructions of what is to be brought to YHWH's table, by anyone other than the High Priest? If so; please prove this out with YHWH's word.

It was already answered earlier as all sin which was already stated and why I added the context back in. Hebrews 10:1 says [1], For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The Greek used here in "year by year" ἐνιαυτός is a derivation: prolongation from a primary ἔνος (a year) meaning continually throughout the year. That is all sins throughout the year by year could not make the comers thereunto perfect. So we are talking about all sin that was brought into the earthly Sanctuary throughout the year

For example other translations of Hebrews 10:1 say it this way...

Young's Literal Translation
For the law having a shadow of the coming good things -- not the very image of the matters, every year, by the same sacrifices that they offer continually, is never able to make perfect those coming near,

American Standard Version
For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh.

New American Standard Bible
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the form of those things itself, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually every year, make those who approach perfect.

Berean Literal Bible
For the Law, having a shadow of the good things coming, not the form of the things themselves, never is able each year, with the same sacrifices which they offer continually, to perfect those drawing near.

All sin was to be brought into the Sanctuary every year by year which culminated in the cleansing of all sin from the Sanctuary on the great day of atonement once a year which leads us into Hebrews 10:3

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Now in Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. Reference to Leviticus 23:27-32 which is the great day of atonement (Yom Kippur) or the cleansing of the Sanctuary from all the sins of God's people collected throughout the year. So back to the original answer that was already provided = Yom Kippur is ATONEMENT FOR ALL SIN and the cleansing of the Sanctuary for all sin through out the year! In the new covenant Jesus death on the cross is God's sacrifice for all the sins of the whole World (John 1:29) once and for all *Hebrews 10:10. Jesus paid the penalty for our sins with His own blood so that we can have God's forgiveness.

Now what is it that you do not believe here?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

In case you didn't realize it; the Book of Hebrews is not in the TaNaK. I'll assume that you didn't know that; as I wouldn't want to falsely accuse you of not reading my posts. I hope this helps. P.S. Hebrews 10:10 makes no mention of "all sin."

No help needed, but thanks for offering. Why do you seem so upset? All of scripture is written for our admonition not just some of it. The new covenant scriptures come from the old covenant scriptures

You might want to read that again

Sure it does (see the context you left out in Hebrews 10:1-10) and the earlier post provided (above) on the Greek of continual year by year in Hebrews 10:1 and the Yom Kippur *Hebrews 10:1-10.

I think God's Word is pretty clear here don't you?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑You did not provide any answer accept to quote the scriptures I already gave you.

Your response here...

Scripture provided an answer.

Yes indeed but all you did was quote the scriptures I provided you.

Can you explain the difference between a קרבן and a זבח?

Well yes I do. What does this have to do with the Greek we are discussing in Hebrews 10:1-10? - Nothing

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nothing there about being habitual.

Let's talk about the Hebrew meaning for a minuet here in regards to intentional and unintentional sin. The idea of 'intentional' is better understood as 'defiant' or 'rebellious and unrepentant'. Unintentional therefore includes many sins committed due to want of knowledge, or through weakness to temptation, or where the offender did not really understand his guilt.

Intentional sin, is not that you were consciously aware of sinning, like when King David committed adultery, and organized to have her husband murdered (don't tell me he did not know murder and adultery was sin), rather it is more of a public defiance against the covenant, like the man stoned for picking up sticks on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32), just after God had declared that the whole camp should not work on the Sabbath. This open rebellion during the establishment of the Sabbath was direct open public defiance against Gods Word. This I believe is what 'intentional' means in this context. The sin offerings through animal sacrifice covered all sin for those who confessed and repented of their sins and returned back to God in the old covenant. Today Jesus paid the price for our sins and for the sins of the whole world as Gods' sacrifice for sin once and for all *Hebrews 10:1-10; John 1:29; 36 and if any man sin we now have an advocate with the father Jesus Christ the righteous *1 John 2:1-2 and if we confess our sins he is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness *1 John 1:9.

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Numbers 15:22 But if you sin unintentionally (H7683 שָׁגַג;shâgag), and do not observe all these commandments that the Lord has spoken to Moses,

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H7683
שָׁגַג (shâgag | shaw-gag')
Derivation: a primitive root;
Strong's: to stray, i.e. (figuratively) sin (with more or less apology)
KJV: [idiom] also for that, deceived, err, go astray, sin ignorantly.

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Unintentional sin therefore in the Torah is any sin in ignorance or weakness that is accompanied with repentance, confession and sorrow for sin. While intentional sin is willful, rebellious, unrepentant sin.

Proverbs 28:13, He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1, My little children, these things write I to you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

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Intentional unrepentant sin

Hebrews 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,[27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hebrews 6:4-8
[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.


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Hope this is helpful

 

[HARK!]

And אשמתו means what exactly?

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H819
אַשְׁמָה (ʼashmâh | ash-maw')
Derivation: feminine of אָשָׁם;
Strong's: guiltiness, a fault, the presentation of a sin-offering
KJV: offend, sin, (cause of) trespass(-ing, offering).
Cognate Group: H819 (offend), H816 ([idiom] certainly), H818 (one which is faulty), H817 (guiltiness)

I choose not to add of subtract from YHWH's word too

Hope this is helpful.

It's not really very helpful at all.

Strong's isn't a dictionary. Strong simply outlined how King James' boys translated the manuscripts that they had. That is why you will see so many disconnected substitutions for the same Hebrew word. That is also why you'll see them add words that don't exist in the Hebrew text. I've seen King James' boys add and omit so many words in the same sentence; that the sentence has a different meaning.

I went over the scripture in my study. Have you read it yet?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It's not really very helpful at all.

Strong's isn't a dictionary. Strong simply outlined how King James' boys translated the manuscripts that they had. That is why you will see so many disconnected substitutions for the same Hebrew word. That is also why you'll see them add words that don't exist in the Hebrew text. I've seen King James' boys add and omit so many words in the same sentence; that the sentence has a different meaning.

I went over the scripture in my study. Have you read it yet?

The first was from a Hebrew and Greek Dictionary with Strong's Concordance word numbers

How about these?

Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew & Thayer Greek Definitions - H819
אשׁמה
'ashmâh
BDB Definition:
1) guiltiness, guilt, offense, sin, wrong-doing
1a) doing wrong, committing a trespass or offense
1b) becoming guilty, guilt
1c) bringing a guilt-offering
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H817
Same Word by TWOT Number: 180c

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Ancient Hebrew Lexicon of the Bible - H819
Strongs #819: AHLB#: 1473-C (N1)
1473) Ms% (Ms% ShM) ac: Breathe co: Breath ab: Desolate: The wind, or breath, of someone or something is its character.
A) Ms% (Ms% ShM) ac: ? co: Breath ab: Desolate: Hebrew names are words given to describe character.
Nm) Ms% (Ms% ShM) - I. Breath: The breath of a man is character, what makes one what he is. The name of an individual is more than an identifier but descriptive of his character or breath. II. There: Used to identify another place. [Hebrew and Aramaic] III. Sky: The place of the winds. [Hebrew and Aramaic; Only used in the masculine plural form, mims or nims in Aramaic] IV. Aroma: A sweet aroma that is carried on the wind or breath. [DF: Mo] [Freq. 1365] | KJV: name, renown, fame, famous, heaven, air, sweet, there | H5561, H8033, H8034, H8036, H8064, H8065, H8536
Nf1) Ems% (Ems% Sh-MH) - Desolate: A wind blowing over the land pulls the moisture out of the ground drying it up, making a place of ruin or desert. [Freq. 39] | KJV: astonishment, desolation, desolate, waste, wonderful | H8047
kf1) Emsm% (Emsm% MSh-MH) - Desolate: A wind blowing over the land pulls the moisture out of the ground drying it up, making a place of ruin or desert. [Freq. 7] | KJV: desolate, astonishment | H4923
nmm) Nmsa% (Nmsa% ASh-MN) - Desolate: A wind blowing over the land pulls the moisture out of the ground drying it up, making a place of ruin or desert. [Freq. 1] | KJV: desolate | H820
B) Mms% (Mms% ShMM) ac: ? co: ? ab: Desolate: A wind blowing over the land pulls the moisture out of the ground drying it up, making a place of ruin or desert. One in horror or in astonishment is one dried up in the inside.
V) Mms% (Mms% Sh-MM) - Desolate: [Hebrew and Aramaic] [Freq. 93] (vf: Paal, Niphal, Hiphil, Hitpael, Hophal, Piel) | KJV: desolate, astonish, waste, destroy, wonder, amaze | H8074, H8075
Nf1) Emms% (Emms% ShM-MH) - Desolate: [Freq. 58] | KJV: desolate, waste | H8077
ejm) Nfmmis% (Nfmmis% ShY-M-MWN) - Desolation: [Freq. 2] | KJV: astonishment | H8078
C) Msa% (Msa% AShM) ac: ? co: ? ab: Guilt: One with a character of wrongdoing.
V) Msa% (Msa% A-ShM) - Guilt: [Freq. 35] (vf: Paal, Niphal, Hiphil) | KJV: guilty, desolate, offend, trespass, destroy, faulty, offence | H816
Nm) Msa% (Msa% A-ShM) - Guilt: [Freq. 49] | KJV: trespass, sin, guiltiness | H817, H818
Nf1) Emsa% (Emsa% ASh-MH) - Guilt: [Freq. 19] | KJV: trespass, sin, offend | H819
G) Mes% (Mes% ShHM) ac: ? co: ? ab: ?: [Unknown meaning;]
Nm) Mes% (Mes% Sh-HM) - Shoham: An unknown stone. [Freq. 11] | KJV: onyx | H7718
J) Mfs% (Mfs% ShWM) ac: Smell co: Garlic ab: ?: A sense of smell from breathing.
Nm) Mfs% (Mfs% ShWM) - Garlic: From its strong odor. [Freq. 1] | KJV: garlick | H7762
L) Msi% (Msi% YShM) ac: ? co: Desert ab: Desolate: A wind blowing over the land pulls the moisture out of the ground drying it up, making a place of ruin or desert.
V) Msi% (Msi% Y-ShM) - Desolate: [Freq. 4] (vf: Paal) | KJV: desolate | H3456
bf1) Emisi% (Emisi% Y-ShY-MH) - Desolate: [Freq. 1] | KJV: seize | H3451
bjm) Nfmisi% (Nfmisi% Y-ShY-MWN) - Desert: A desolate place. [Freq. 13] | KJV: desert, wilderness, solitary | H3452

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Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Unabridged - H819
H819. ashmah
אַשְׁמָה noun feminine wrong-doing, guiltiness (properly Infinitive compare יִרְאָה אַהֲבָה,) — ׳א Lev 22:16 5t., construct אַשְׁמַת Ezra 10:10 3t.; suffix אַשְׁמָתוֺ Leviticus 5:24 6t.; plural אֲשָׁמוֺת2Chr 28:10; suffix אַשְׁמוֺתַי Psa 69:6; —
1 doing wrong, committing a trespass or offence2Chr 24:18; 28:10, 13 (3 t. in verse) (|| חטאת 28:13) 32:23; Ezra 9:6-7, 13, 15 (|| עָוֺן 9:13) Psa 69:6 (|| אִוֶּלָת); בָהּ לְאַשְׁמָה יַעֲשֶׂה אֲשֶׁר מִכֹּל of all that one may do wrong therein Leviticus 5:26 (P; || בָהֵנָּה לַחֲטֹא Lev 6:22).
2 becoming guilty 1Chr 21:3; Ezra 10:10, 19; הָעָם לְאַשְׁמַת יֶחֱטָא sin to the becoming guilty of the people (so that the people incur guilt) Lev 4:3; שֹׁמְרוֺן אַשְׁמַת guilt of Samaria (their idols) Amos 8:14.
3 bringing a trespass-offering, אַשְׁמָתוֺ בְּיוֺם in the day of his bringing his trespass-offering Leviticus 5:24; אַשְׁמָה עֲוֺן iniquity requiring a trespass-offering Lev 22:16.
אַשְׁמוּרָה (מֹֿרֶת מֻֿרוֺת,) see שׁמר.
אַשְׁמַנִּים see שׁמן. p. 1032.
אשׁן (√ assumed for following; perhaps be hard, firm, compare Aramaic אֲשִׁינָא אֲשׁוּנָא,, something firm).

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Gesenius Hebrew And Chaldee Lexicon - H819
H819 - GES797
אַשְׁמָה
f.-
(1) prop. Infin. of the verb אָשַׁם, like אַהֲבָה, ·יִרְאָה Lev. 5:26, מִכֹּל אֲשֶׁר יַעֲשֶׂה לְאַשְׁמָה בָהּ “of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.” Lev 4:3, אֲשְׁמַת הָעָם “like as the people contract guilt.”
(2) fault, guilt, 1Chr 21:3, 2Chr 24:18, 28:13, Amos 8:14, אַשְׁמַת שֹׁמְרוֹן “the guilt of Samaria,” for its idols. Pl. אֲשָׁמוֹת 2Chr 28:10, Psa 69:6.
(3) the offering of a victim for guilt, or trespass. Lev. 5:24, בְּיוֹם אַשְׁמָתוֹ “in the day of the offering of his sacrifice.” Comp. אָשֵׁם No. 2 and אֲפֻדָּה.

Hope this is more to your liking.

 

[HARK!]

Not at all dear friend. You seem to be making arguments no one is making so you can argue with yourself on this one. Once again what has your post here have to do with what you are quoting from? - Nothing. If I never said the new covenant negates the torah why are you trying to make arguments pretending that I did? The old covenant laws and Priesthood for remission of sins are fulfilled and continued in the body of Christ to who they point to in the new covenant based on better promises with Jesus ministering on our behalf in an heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man (Hebrews 8:1-6)

Hope this is helpful

It's really not helpful at all. You still haven't answered my question regarding the "sin sacrifice" of the High Priest.

Your seem to be conflating קרבן and זבח.