Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Most Bible Scholars view Luke 21 as fulfilled in the 1st century.
Most partial preterists, including me, view that as fulfilled on 1st century Jerusalem as shown in Luke and Revelation........Futurists, Dispensationalists and some partial preterists view it as still future.....

Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose

Partial Preterism:
Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero. The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.
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Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 3961: πατέω
πατέω, πάτω; future πατήσω; passive, present participle πατουμενος; 1 aorist ἐπατήθην; from Pindar, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Plato down; the Sept. for דָּרַך, etc.; to tread, i. e.,
a. to trample, crush with the feet: τήν ληνόν, Revelation 14:20; Revelation 19:15 (Judges 9:27; Nehemiah 13:15; Jeremiah 31:33 (Jeremiah 48:33); Lamentations 1:15).

b. to advance by setting foot upon, tread upon: ἐπάνω ὄφεων καί σκορπίων καί ἐπί πᾶσαν τήν δύναμιν τοῦ ἐχθροῦ, to encounter successfully the greatest perils from the machinations and persecutions with which Satan would fain thwart the preaching of the gospel, Luke 10:19 (cf. Psalms 90:13 (Psalms 91:13)).

c. to tread underfoot, trample on, i. e. treat with insult and contempt: to desecrate the holy city by devastation and outrage, Luke 21:24; Revelation 11:2 (from Daniel 8:13); see καταπατέω. (Compare: καταπατέω, περιπατέω, ἐμπεριπατέω
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Let's look at where the Greek word #3961 is used in the NT.

Behold! it is used in the 70ad Temple/City discourse of Luke and Revelation

G3961 πατέω (pateō) which occurs 5 times in 5 verses

Luke 10:19 Behold! I give to you the authority to tread<3961> upon serpents and scorpions, and on all the power of the enemy, and nothing by any means shall hurt you;

Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Luke 21:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833> without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations
and they shall be trampling<3961> the holy City forty two months.

Revelation 14:20 And the winepress was trampled<3961> outside the City,
and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

Revelation 19:15
and out of his mouth doth proceed a sharp sword, that with it he may smite the nations,
and He shall be shepherding them with a rod of iron,
and He doth tread<3691> the press of the wine of the wrath and the fury of God the Almighty,

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The Fall of Jerusalem and the future of the Jews | Partial Preterism |

Summary:
The fall of Jerusalem together with the destruction of most of the people and of the temple in AD 70 is a limited although dreadful judgement upon the people of Jerusalem. It is limited in time to the generation of Jesus day and it was limited to the area of Judea. It came because of the Jews consistent rejection of the prophets who died in Jerusalem and in particular their rejection of Jesus who was crucified just outside Jerusalem. Not only the leaders but also the people themselves called for the crucifixion of Jesus, preferring to have Caesar as their king and the murderer Barabbas released instead of Jesus. In fact both Jews and Gentiles were implicated in the death of Christ. The Jews represented by the high priest and the Gentiles represented by the Roman governor Pilate, who ordered the execution, and the Roman soldiers who carried it out. After the resurrection and Pentecost the Jews continued to persecute Christians and to reject the gospel and so in the end the gospel was preached to the Gentiles who accepted it and inherited all the benefits promised to Abraham's offspring. And God fulfilled his promise to Abraham that 'Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.' Gen 22:18, Acts 3:25 A great persecution of Christians by Jews arose in Jerusalem so that Christians fled Jerusalem.

The destruction of Jerusalem together with the temple also served to terminate the priesthood and animal sacrifice. Thereafter the temple is the body of the believer in whom God dwells; each believer is a priest; and animal sacrifice is no longer required because it looked forward in time to the sacrifice of Jesus himself. The early church was centred on Jerusalem and the temple and was entirely composed of Jewish believers in Jesus, only later did Gentiles also became believers.

Jesus himself was the bridge between the old Jewish order and the new Christian order. Jesus was a Jew who underwent the Jewish rite of circumcision and the Christian rite of baptism. Jesus abolished the dividing wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile by making them one (Eph 2:11-20). He did this not by excluding Jews but by including Gentiles and he abolished in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. Through Jesus we both, Jew and Gentile, have access to the Father by one Spirit. Thus Gentiles are now fellow citizens with God's people with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. The question for Jews now is whether or not to accept Jesus as the chief cornerstone.

Conclusions:
The judgement and destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was for that particular generation of Jews. In answer to the question - "Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery?" Paul answers "Not at all!" (Rom 11:11). Lev 26:40 indicates that even in exile, if they turn to the Lord and confess their sins and those of their fathers that God will forgive them.
The scriptures indicate that Satan will try to destroy them but that they will be preserved. Despite many attempts to eradicate the Jews from the face of the earth, as a recognisable people the Jews are still here. Jesus hints that before he returns the Jews will acknowledge him as Lord.

For those believing Jews and Gentiles, they are one new man and not two. God's method of salvation is the same for Jews and Gentiles, for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Jesus was a Jew and he underwent both the Jewish and Christian initiation rites of circumcision and baptism.

The early church was predominantly Jewish, but as it spread it became more and more Gentile. While the church is now almost all Gentile because the number of Gentiles exceeds the umber of Jews, Jews can be part of the church by recognising Jesus as the cornerstone.
Theologically the church is composed of believing Jews and Gentiles, there is no difference. Jesus Christ has made the two into one new man. There is no distinction between believing Israel and the church.

The Times of the Gentiles | Dan Delagrave

The times of the Gentiles has to be kept in it's proper historical context. Jesus said that "all", including the times of the Gentiles, would be fulfilled before his contemporary generation had passed.

Dispensationalists go outside the box of "this generation" in order to teach a futuristic view of Christ's coming.
To do that they have to redefine both "the times of the Gentiles" and "this generation". Needless to say, their "1948 generation" has proven to be more than just a little embarrassing.

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh . . . and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." (Luke 21:20, 24)

The times of the Gentiles referred to the treading down, or desolation, of first century Jerusalem, which Jesus called "the days of vengeance". In other words, it was God's mission for the Gentiles to bring judgment upon Jerusalem. This is consistent with past judgments upon Israel, when God brought Gentiles armies into their land to desolate it.

The whole controversy centers on the duration of the treading down of Jerusalem. The Greek for "trodden" is pat-eh'-o (#3961 in Strong's Concordance), and it means "to trample down underfoot". The parallel to Lk.21:24 is seen in Revelation 11:2, which says:

"But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot (pateho) forty and two months."

Could it be any plainer? The times of the Gentiles, or treading down of Jerusalem, entailed no more than a forty two month period of time, the exact duration of the Jewish-Roman War. This is in perfect harmony with Daniel 12:7, where the defining characteristic of "the time of the end" is said to be "the scattering of the power of the holy people", which we are told would be accomplished during "a time, times, and a half", or forty two months.

Furthermore, when we consider the mountain of evidence for a pre-70 dating of Revelation, in addition to the statements of imminence in the book itself (1:1, 3; 22:6, 7, 10, 12), then the forced conclusion is that the forty two months was fulfilled in the 66-70 A.D. Jewish-Roman War.

In the ancient Near East, the ultimate image of triumph over an enemy was the positioning of the enemy "under the feet" of the conqueror. This was a literal custom in Biblical times – read Joshua 10:24; 2 Kings 7:17, 20, 9:33; Isaiah 14:19 – as well as a metaphor for dominion, conquering, possession, judgment, shame, defilement, oppression, and victory – read Deuteronomy 11:24; Judges 20:43; 1 Kings 5:3; Joshua 14:9; Psalms 18:38; 47:3; 74:21; 110:1; Lamentations 1:15; 3:34; Isaiah 14:25; 41:2; 63:6; 66:1; Jeremiah 25:30; Daniel 8:7; Joel 3:13; Amos 2:6-7; 4:13; Micah 1:3; 5:5-6; Malachi 4:3; Matthew 7:6; Mark 12:36; Luke 20:43; Acts 2:35; Romans 16:20; I Corinthians 15:25; Ephesians 1:22; Hebrews 1:13; 2:8; 10:13; Revelation 19:15. The Greek word for "tread" in Revelation 11:2 is the same word Luke used for "trodden" (pat-eh'-o) in Luke 21:24.

Jerusalem's first century desolation represented the time when Christ put his enemies – read I Thessalonians 2:15-16 – under his feet. This was accomplished during a forty two month period which Jesus called "the times of the Gentiles".
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WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS 1ST CENTURY ISRAEL, JUDEA AND JERUSALEM

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass,
but the end<5056> is not yet.
==
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The age we live in has many names. This is the Church age, the Holy Spirit Dispensation and also they call this: The times of the Gentiles. So the question is, when does the age we are in come to an end? For me that is easy because I am a dispensationist, so that means the age is 2,000 years in length. When did the age begin? On the day of Pentacost when Peter was preaching in the Upper room. That was 50 days after Passover when Jesus was sacrificed for our sin and transgression. Also at the time of Moses at the first passover when the Hebrew children left Egypt the law was given 50 days later at Mount Sinai. So the question then is, what year was Jesus crucified? I believe it was 29 ad. Then the question is: so what? The church is 2,000 years old. Should we order a cake and have a party?
We are told that this is the end of the Time of the Gentiles and the beginning of the Kingdom Age. On December 6, 2017, US President Donald Trump announced the United States recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Does this mean that Jerusalem is no longer being trampled underfoot by the Gentiles? Is there a 7 year tribulation period between the Church age and the Kingdom age? Are there people that teach this? There maybe people that believe that the Kingdom age, the 1000 year reign of Christ began on Dec 6, 2017.

One thing I believe is that we are in the last of the last days indeed. What a time to be alive. I am with you on this Joshua 1 9. I don't believe the 1000 year reign began on Dec 6, 2017 because Jesus is supposed to be ruling on the throne of David from Jerusalem and He is not here yet. Plus I didn't see the prophecies of the tribulation take place. I didn't see the two witnesses who can't be killed nor have I seen the 144K and all the other amazing things yet to occur. I realize there are many different theories, conjectures, etc. Oh, and we have to also factor in which calendar are we going by to guesstimate Christ's return? No matter what I love this topic - the End Times. Thanks for posting.

This is said to be the 50 year Jubilee. So we can add 7 years and we get 2015, 2022, 2029 & 2036. If 2029 is the end of the Church age & there is 7 years of tribulation, then 2036 could be the year Jesus returns to establish His Kingdom here on the Earth. 2036 is a year we elect a new president here in America.

Utter speculative futurist nonsense...........

There is a thread to discuss the symbolic 1000yr period:

Revelation 20:4-6 "reign with Christ a 1000yrs"

This is an offshoot from this other thread:

What is the purpose of the thousand-year reign of Christ?

The Millennium (also known as the Millennial Kingdom) is the 1,000-year reign of Jesus after the Tribulation and before all the people of the world are sent to either heaven or hell. Jesus will reign as king over Israel as well as all the nations of the world (Isaiah 2:4; 42:1). The world will live in peace (Isaiah 11:6–9; 32:18), Satan will be bound (Revelation 20:1–3), and, at the beginning, everyone will worship God (Isaiah 2:2–3). The purpose of the 1,000-year reign is to fulfill promises God made to the world that cannot be fulfilled while Satan is free and humans have political authority. Some of these promises, called covenants, were given specifically to Israel. Others were given to Jesus, the nations of the world, and creation. All of these will be fulfilled during Jesus’ 1,000-year reign.

The main purpose of Jesus’ 1,000-year reign is to fulfill the prophecies given to Israel and the promises made to Jesus, the nations, and the whole earth. God’s covenants were voluntary and one-sided. He promised He would bless Israel and restore the world in specific ways, and He will.
Quasar02

Since we know the Millenial reign starts when Christ returns to earth and resurrects the 144,000 end-time jewish martyrs, we see that the Millenial reign is both a fulfillment of prophesy to the Jewish remnant and a reward for end-time Christian martyrdom. It is also God's way of saying "You've had the Anti-Christ run things. Now have my Son." It's God's way of giving the earth the choice of who to partake of.... Jesus or the Anti-Christ. God or Satan. The Millenium is also a way to refine humanity, since Satan will be locked up, unable to deceive the Millenial nations, yet the descendents of the 144,000 will not all chose Christ, even though they will have lived with Him in person on Earth. These are those who Satan deceives at the end of the 1,000 years and brings to encircle the camp of Jesus Christ and are destroyed by fire from Heaven before the Great White throne judgement.

I am attaching a poll thread to this one and if anyone wants me to add more options, please let me know.

Does Christ literally come down to earth and bodily reign on the earth for a 1000yrs?

Revelation 20
1 And I saw a Messenger descending out of the heaven, having the key of the Abyss, and a great chain on the hand of Him.
2 And He seizes the Dragon, the Serpent, the Ancient-one, who is a Devil/Slanderer and the Satan/Adversary, and binds Him a thousands years.
3 And He casts Him into the Abyss, and locks and seals over Him, that no He should be deceiving the Nations, until should be being finished the thousands years.
After these, it is binding Him to be loosed a little time
4 And I saw thrones, and they are seated upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those having been beheaded/executed<3990> because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor it's image, and did not receive the mark upon the forehead and upon their hand,
and they live and reign with the Christ a thousand years;
5 And the rest of the dead not live until should be being finished<5055> the thousand years. This the first resurrection/standing up<386> .
6 Happy/blessed<3107> and holy the one having part in the first resurrection/standing up, over these the second death not is having authority,
but they shall be priests of the God and of the Christ,
and shall be reigning with Him the thousand years.

Does Jesus physically and bodily reign on earth with Saints a 1000 yrs?

1. 
   
   
   • Yes
     4 vote(s)
     57.1%
   • *
     No
     3 vote(s)
     42.9%
   • I am not sure yet
     0 vote(s)
     0.0%
   • Other
     0 vote(s)
     0.0%

 

[parousia70]

Even 100% because it is all a shadow and a type. What God did with the nation of Israel He is now doing with the gentiles.

So should we be expecting another virgin birth of messiah? another crucifixion? another 3rd day rising and another ascension?

Was Calvary a mere shadow of a future to us, even greater sacrifice of messiah for our sins?

If, as you say, 100% of what took place back then will be repeated in our day, then the answer should be yes.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So should we be expecting another virgin birth of messiah? another crucifixion? another 3rd day rising and another ascension?

Jesus was taken up to Heaven from the Mount of Olives we are told: " This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:11)

We read about this also in Zech 14:4 "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus was taken up to Heaven from the Mount of Olives we are told: " This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:11)

We read about this also in Zech 14:4 "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south."

Just as God's servant, the King of Babylon, sieged Jerusalem in the OT, so did a "son of man" named Titus siege Jerusalem in 70ad while camped on the very Mount Jesus gave His 70ad Jerusalem/Temple Discourse.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

...Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"

Matthew 24 Mount of Olives and Titus' 10th Legion on Mt Olives 70ad

Please visit my "Jewish Wars" thread

Matt 24:6..The Jewish Wars in 1st century...Up to 70ad and Masada
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I am learning a lot of what was going on during the 1st century Jewish wars in relation to the 70ad Olivet Discourse.
This is concerning Titus standing on the Mount of Olives.

Zechariah 14:4
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

View attachment 254306

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First, the verses from the MoO narrative:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying.............
6 “Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and hearings of battles...but not as yet the End<5056>

Mark 13
1 And He going forth out of the Temple,
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives overlooking the Temple,
7 “Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and hearings of battles, .....but not as yet the End<5056>

Luke 21
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple,
9 “Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>
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Just a little bit of what was happening up to the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem. This site as a plethora of maps and pictures portraying the action going on back then........
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Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @

MARCH, A.D. 66 - JERUSALEM
The Final Days of the Jewish Commonwealth ; Anarchy Erupts, and the Christians Flee

Numerous signs, prodigies, and portents are seen in the land of Judaea at the outset of the rebellion. Included in those recorded by Josephus, armed hosts and chariots in the clouds are seen flying over all the land of Judaea; a light at night makes the temple appear as though it were on fire; Halley's Comet, in the appearance of a sword, flies over the region. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory says that the closest approach of the comet that year was in March, immediately prior to the revolt.

Christians seem to have associated this period with the warnings and admonitions of Jesus Christ in Matthew 24, because after the withdrawal of Gallus and the Battle of Beth-horon, a great number of people flee the city of Jerusalem, led by the Mother Church, which headed east over the Jordan River to safety in the area of Pella, Jordan.
Early Christian settlements sprung up all over the Roman Decapolis Scythopolis [Bet She'an], Hippos [Susieh], Gadara [Umm Qais], Pella [Tabaqat Fahl], Philadelphia [Amman], Gerasa [Jerash], Dion [Adun], Kanatha [Kanawat], Damascus, and Raphana [Abila] . Today this region is within the Kingdom of Jordan and the Golan Heights. During the flight out of Palestine, a number of documents were apparently hidden in the Dead Sea area along the route -- DSS Caves 4 and 7-10 are of particular interest.
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MAY, A.D. 66 - JERUSALEM
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66

The Factions in Jerusalem During the Roman Siege

The Roman Procurator Florus demands 17 talents from the Jewish Temple treasury. This is the triggering insult for the Jews to begin their revolt. The Roman garrison in Jerusalem is overrun by rebels, who take control of the city. The rebels cause cessation of all sacrifices to the Roman Emperor, thus challenging Rome head-on
Florus cannot handle the situation, so the (Roman) Syrian Governor, Cestius Gallus, is called in to subdue the rebellion. He attacks Jerusalem, gets up to the walls of the city, then unexpectedly withdraws, suffering heavy losses in retreat.
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A.D. 66-69 - GALILEE
PROGRESS OF THE LEGIONS UNDER VESPASIAN

After the humiliation of Gallus -- who subsequently died (some said of shame) -- Nero commands General Vespasian (Titus Flavius Vespasianus) to take over command of the Jewish War.
While civil war rages in Jerusalem, Vespasian decides to give time for the infighting in the city to weaken the Jewish defense against his armies. He then proceeds to subdue Galilee with the aid of his son Titus. After a number of sieges and clashes, he succeeds in calming northern Judaea
JOSEPHUS CAPTURED IN THE SIEGE OF JOTAPATA
Jewish General Josephus in captured in siege of Jotapata. After a short imprisonment, he serves the Roman field marshals until the completion of the war. After the war, Josephus is adopted into the Flavian family, and he writes the definitive history of the Roman-Jewish War
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"THE YEAR OF THE FOUR EMPERORS"
Four emperors possess the ultimate world power in Rome in quick succession during this unsettled period. The first is Nero (Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus), who ends the reign of the Julio-Claudian dynasty by committing suicide on June 9th, 68.
His last words were "Qualis artifex Pereo" which is translated "what an artist dies in me"

General Galba in Spain declares himself emperor while Nero is still alive, and takes power upon his arrival in Rome.
In January, 69, Galba is murdered by Otho who proclaims himself emperor.
On April 15th, Otho commits suicide and his rival, Vitellius becomes emperor. In June, Vespasian resumes operations in Judea.
In July, Vespasian is proclaimed emperor by the army. He transfers command of the Jewish war to his son Titus and heads for Rome. On December 20th, 69, Vitellius is beheaded in Rome and Vespasian is installed as emperor there.
=================================================
A.D. 70 - JERUSALEM
TITUS TAKES OVER WAR AND HEADS STRAIGHT TO JERUSALEM

They will take away your turban and remove your crown; everything will be changed; the low will be high and the high brought low. To ruin, and to ruin on ruin, am I going to bring it, to such ruin as was never known before this man came who is appointed to inflict the punishment which I am determined to impose on it." (Ez.21:23-27).

With Vespasian taking over the government of the Roman Empire, his son Titus Flavius Vespasianus (AD 9-79; Joint Emperor AD 69-79 ; Sole Emperor 79-81) takes over as field marshal of the Roman forces opposing the Jewish revolt. Titus and Tiberius Alexander, Prefect of Egypt, march to Caesarea from Alexandria, bringing with them reinforcements from the 18th and 3rd Augusta Legions. The 12th Legion marched down from Syria, and three thousand legionaries of the 23rd and/or 24th Legions marched west from the Euphrates. In April, 70, Titus led the 12th and 15th Legions and the 3rd Augusta and 18th Legion cohorts out of Caesarea towards Jerusalem. Upon arriving, he encamped on Mount Scopus, north of the city.
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APRIL, A.D. 70 - PHASE ONE
THE ROMAN ARMY ARRIVES AT JERUSALEM TO PREPARE THE SIEGE

The first night of Titus' encampment with the 15th, 3rd and 18th Legions, the 5th Legion arrived from Emmaus and set camp north of the city on Mount Scopus.
Later the next day, the famed 10th Legion (founded by Julius Caesar) marched in from Jericho and camped on the Mount of Olives, east of the city.
Instead of waiting to starve the Jews into submission, Titus decides to assault many different parts of the city and overwhelm the defenders. Titus was early on in the middle of the fighting with his soldiers. At least two times, Titus and his detachment are surrounded by defenders, only to escape unharmed.

‘Admirable as were the engines constructed by all the legions, those of the tenth were of peculiar excellence. Their scorpions were of greater power and their stone-projectors larger, and with these they not only kept in check the sallying parties, but those also on the ramparts. The stones that were thrown were of the weight of a talent, and had a range of two furlongs and more. The shock, not only to such as first met it, but even to those beyond them for a considerable distance, was irresistible. The Jews, however, at the first, could guard against the stone; for its approach was intimated, not only to the ear by its whiz, but also, being white, to the eye by its brightness. Accordingly they had watchmen posted on the towers, who gave warning when the engine was discharged and the stone projected, calling out in their native language, "The son is coming," on which those towards whom it was directed would separate, and lie down before it reached them. Thus it happened that, owing to these precautions, the stone fell harmless. It then occurred to the Romans to blacken it; when, taking a more successful aim, as it was no longer equally discernible in its approach, they swept down many at a single discharge.’ Josephus, Jewish Wars, bk. v. chap. vi. 3.
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View attachment 254309

View attachment 254307

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[joshua 1 9]

Utter speculative futurist nonsense...........

There is a thread to discuss the symbolic 1000yr period:

You admit that the THIRD day is 1,000 years but you question that the first two days are 1,000 years each.

"they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years". Rev 20:4 "After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence." Hosea 6:2

The third day is also the seventh day from Adam when man will rest from his works. Then on the eighth day there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth. We will receive our Glorified body.

 

[BABerean2]

What God did with the nation of Israel He is now doing with the gentiles.

Why would you claim we are "gentiles", without a DNA test?

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel".
On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.

Since that time the Church has been made up of all races of people.

.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Why would you claim we are "gentiles", without a DNA test?

I gave my son a DNA test. I though it would be less Mongolian and more middle east. But otherwise his results were pretty much what I was expecting.

DNA presents a problem for people because they want to look back when you have to go back and look forward.

 

[parousia70]

Jesus was taken up to Heaven from the Mount of Olives we are told: " This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:11)

We read about this also in Zech 14:4 "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south."

That didn't answer my question.

But that is interesting... for the description of the events in that passage in Zechariah are nowhere near "in the same way as He went into heaven" are they?

So, now you have claimed that EVERYTHING that happened for the Jews in the first century are to be repeated in our day of the gentiles - but when pressed to elaborate it seems even you don't believe that to be true... AND, you also assert that Jesus will return "in the same way He went into heaven" yet in the same breath indicate the events surrounding His return will be nothing like the events surrounding His departure...

Any chance you can reconcile these seemingly polar opposite views you are attempting to simultaneously hold?

 

[BABerean2]

I gave my son a DNA test. I though it would be less Mongolian and more middle east. But otherwise his results were pretty much what I was expecting.

DNA presents a problem for people because they want to look back when you have to go back and look forward.

Is your son a direct descendant of Abraham, since some of his ancestors lived in the Middle East?

.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Is your son a direct descendant of Abraham, since some of his ancestors lived in the Middle East?

He only has 3% middle east. His mom's name was Sagan. Same as Carl Sagan - who was host for the Cosmos program on TV.

The middle east is mostly made up of the descendants of Abraham and Hagar (Egyptian), Sarah's handmaiden. "As for Ishmael, I have heard you, and I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He will become the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation." Genesis 17:20

 

[joshua 1 9]

But that is interesting... for the description of the events in that passage in Zechariah are nowhere near "in the same way as He went into heaven" are they?

Zechariah gives us a lot more information then we received from Luke in Acts. Clearly they are both the same event.

Any chance you can reconcile these seemingly polar opposite views you are attempting to simultaneously hold?

There are paradoxes in the scriptures but that does not seem to be the case here. We use to talk about shadow and types but now the words we use are paradigms and archetypes. Actually Jung introduced archetypes to science. This has all been preserved by the Kabbalistic tradition. The people who seem to safeguard that now are the Hasidim. You can tell who they are because they do not trim their beards.

I do not study all of their symbols. I just study the Hebrew language and what the letters represent. Zeph 3:9 "For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language,"

There are many ways we learn from: allegory, metaphor, homilies, symbols, paradigms, parables and so on. There is a deeper meaning in the scriptures, in addition to the literal understanding.

It is no unusual for me to spend up to 18 hours a day or more to read and study all of this. When I am done with my studies at the end of this life I will just be getting started.

 

[parousia70]

Zechariah gives us a lot more information then we received from Luke in Acts. Clearly they are both the same event.

That is in no way clear to me... in fact it's not clear to many...and appears to be merely an assumption on your part based solely on a previously held bias and not on any explicit scriptural teaching.
Even the ECF's held that the Zechariah passage was fulfilled in Christ's first advent when He actually set foot on the MT of Olives:

Tertullian (A.D. 145-220) wrote (barely 150 years after it happened):
“But at night He went out to the Mount of Olives. For thus had Zechariah pointed out: ‘And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives’
Tertullian was alluding to the fact that the Olivet prophecy set the stage for the judgment-coming of Christ that would once for all break down the Jewish/Gentile division. Matthew Henry explains the theology behind the prophecy:

The partition-wall between Jew and Gentiles shall be taken away. The mountains about Jerusalem, and particularly this, signified it to be an enclosure, and that it stood in the way of those who would approach to it. Between the Gentiles and Jerusalem this mountain of Bether, of division, stood, Cant. ii. 17. But by the destruction of Jerusalem this mountain shall be made to cleave in the midst, and so the Jewish pale shall be taken down, and the church laid in common with the Gentiles, who were made one with the Jews by the breaking down of this middle wall of partition, Eph. ii. 14.8

So, as you can see, your claim that "clearly they are the same event" is hardly as clear as you assert.

Please demonstrate for us how the above is an unreasonable, incorrect interpretation of the Passage in Zechariah.
Please use objectivity.

There are paradoxes in the scriptures but that does not seem to be the case here. We use to talk about shadow and types but now the words we use are paradigms and archetypes. Actually Jung introduced archetypes to science. This has all been preserved by the Kabbalistic tradition. The people who seem to safeguard that now are the Hasidim. You can tell who they are because they do not trim their beards.

I do not study all of their symbols. I just study the Hebrew language and what the letters represent. Zeph 3:9 "For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language,"

There are many ways we learn from: allegory, metaphor, homilies, symbols, paradigms, parables and so on. There is a deeper meaning in the scriptures, in addition to the literal understanding.

It is no unusual for me to spend up to 18 hours a day or more to read and study all of this. When I am done with my studies at the end of this life I will just be getting started.

Let me try to simplify it ... since I'm a simple man.

Do you believe there will be anther virgin Birth in the future, since you apparently are claiming the Virgin birth of Christ was a mere "Type & Shadow" of a future fulfillment?

...and How about Calvary? Do you believe the Crucifixion of Christ was a mere shadow of some future, greater sacrifice of Messiah for our Sins?

If the answer is no.... then where does scripture teach the difference?

Are you expecting another "Surrounding of Jerusalem by armies", in another "Days of vengeance in fulfillment of all things written" even though both already took place in the 1st century?

If the answer is yes, then again, where does scripture teach you the difference?

...and if multiple fulfillment is the rule, were does scripture teach you to stop at two? why not 3, or 4 or 10 or 100 more?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

BABerean2 said: ↑
Why would you claim we are "gentiles", without a DNA test?

I gave my son a DNA test. I though it would be less Mongolian and more middle east. But otherwise his results were pretty much what I was expecting. DNA presents a problem for people because they want to look back when you have to go back and look forward.

Don't we all have DNA from "Adam"?

The Ancient Hebrew Research Center

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

120 'adam from 119;
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):--X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
H120 אָדָם ('adam) occurs 552 times in 527 verses

I noticed the plural "they" concerning "adam"?

Genesis 1:
26 And 'Elohiym is saying " We shall make/`asah 'adam in image of Us, as likeness of Us, and they shall rule in fish/dagah of the sea and in flyer/`owph of the Heavens and in cattle/beast/b@hemah, and in all the Land and in every the moving one/remes, the one moving on the Land"
27 And 'Elohiym is creating/bara' the 'adam in image of Him, in image of 'Elohiym He creates/bara' him, male and female He creates/bara' them
==============================
G76 Ἀδάμ (Adam) occurs 9 times in 7 verses

Luke 3:
23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli,....
38 - the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God
===============================
Romans 5:14 but the death did reign from Adam till Moses[Law], even upon those not having sinned in the likeness/omoiwmati <3667> of Adam's transgression, who is a type/tupoV <5179> of him who is coming.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For just as in the Adam all are dying/apoqnhskousin <599> (5719), so also in the Christ all shall be being made alive. [Genesis 5:5]
45 And so it is written,
“The first man Adam became a living being.”
The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

1 Timothy 2:
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Jude 1:14
Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
============================

[/quote][/quote]

 

[joshua 1 9]

Don't we all have DNA from "Adam"?

We are all descended from the male and female in Genesis chapter one. The Hebrew people are descended from the Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We are all descended from the male and female in Genesis chapter one. The Hebrew people are descended from the Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

Not sure I understand......

 

[joshua 1 9]

Not sure I understand......

Time magazine - science Adam and Eve are not the same people as Adam and Eve that we read about in our Bible in the Garden of Eden. The Bible uses archetypes that some people call paradigms. In additional to the literal understanding there is a lot of symbolic meaning to what we are reading. So the Adam and Eve in Eden are an archetype expressed in Scientific Adam and Eve.

We see this in the story of Noah. In his day his world was destroyed with water. Today we are told the world is being cleansed with fire. We already see fire in California and in the Amazon. Jesus said: As it was in the days of Noah: Matthew 24:37,38 "As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark."

 

[sdowney717]

Notice His feet do not touch the ground. That is why they say the second coming He comes for His Bride. The third coming His feet touch the ground at the Mount of Olives.

It is all part of the same second coming. All you read about is when He returns, comes again, a second time, you dont read about a third time.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

the first time was for His crucifixion, and resurrection, the second time is to deliver us from this current evil age, bodily as in our own resurrection. Apart from sin, means He comes to save His sin forgiven already people, not to suffer again for sin. The second time to rule the whole earth and destroy all the wicked burning them with fire.

 

[joshua 1 9]

All you read about is when He returns, comes again, a second time, you dont read about a third time.

Are you talking about reading the Bible? The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus comes FOR His church before the Tribulation. If you do not believe that then do you plan to be here for the Tribulation period? Then we read about how Jesus returns with His church to establish His Kingdom so we rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years.

Jesus had to depart for the Church Age to Begin. This was when the Holy Spirit Dispensation began. NOW in order for Jesus to return then the HOLY Spirit has to depart. When the Church age ends then the Kingdom age begins.

 

[sdowney717]

Are you talking about reading the Bible? The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus comes FOR His church before the Tribulation. If you do not believe that then do you plan to be here for the Tribulation period? Then we read about how Jesus returns with His church to establish His Kingdom so we rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years.

Jesus had to depart for the Church Age to Begin. This was when the Holy Spirit Dispensation began. NOW in order for Jesus to return then the HOLY Spirit has to depart. When the Church age ends then the Kingdom age begins.

Where does the bible say that clearly? That Christ comes before the tribulation to rapture the church?