Jerusalem was a "Vine"

[radhead]

Ezekiel chapters 15 through 17 describes Jerusalem as a "vine" which is good for nothing but being thrown into the fire, eventually becoming replaced by a Glorious Tree.

So why would Jesus, in the gospel of John, call himself a "vine" then, and that his believers were the "branches"? Is the author of John trying to tell his readers that the religion known as Christianity was a false one? It was a late written gospel, and the author would have seen the transformation of the early movement being formed into an organized religion with supernatural beliefs. If so, then the image of Jesus would be transformed between the beginning and ending of the story itself.

The lamb was killed by the beast, and was quickly replaced with someone that his followers didn't recognize. Someone who ate "fish".

Or is the author trying to state that the "vine" is nothing but an idea, but which gives life to it's branches?

The message of the New Testament seems to be that the lamb was being overcome and replaced by a beast. But that the beast would be overcome as the religious people began to open their eyes to the truth, and their religious ideas fell away like scales from their eyes. It's like an ongoing process that continues to this day.

 

[radhead]

Over a 100 views and no one has any thoughts on why Jesus would compare himself to such a despicable thing?

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Over a 100 views and no one has any thoughts on why Jesus would compare himself to such a despicable thing?

I have not looked up the passage you're referencing. Assuming you're correct, I think you've made an interesting observation. But that's all it is. A vine in the Bible is not automatically a bad thing based on your passage you cited.

Satan walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah. Are lions good or bad?

 

[radhead]

In other words, don't worry about it. That's the only explanation I will be able to get. We are never supposed to read the "scriptures" critically. Especially when it might contradict sacred doctrine.

Doctrine is the most important part of faith. I understand.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

In other words, don't worry about it. That's the only explanation I will be able to get. We are never supposed to read the "scriptures" critically. Especially when it might contradict sacred doctrine.

Doctrine is the most important part of faith. I understand.

I would definitely recommend that you read it critically.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The thing about things like metaphors is that the meaning is in the context, not in there being some magical code.

The Bible describes sheep in both positive and negative language; sheep are described as wayward and easily led astray; sheep are also described as beloved creatures of a caring shepherd. Jesus tells His followers to be "wise as serpents and gentle as doves", a bronze serpent was used in the desert to heal the sick Israelites--elsewhere serpents are regarded as sinister and repulsive, it was a serpent that deceived Eve, both John the Baptist and Jesus refer to religious hypocrites as vipers, the devil is referred to as "that old serpent" and as "the dragon".

Thinking that the Bible is written in some kind of universal magic code is an inherently bad way to read the Bible--as it would be a bad way to read any collection of texts from any era.

Snakes aren't always evil.
Vines aren't always good.
Etc.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[radhead]

The thing about things like metaphors is that the meaning is in the context, not in there being some magical code.

The Bible describes sheep in both positive and negative language; sheep are described as wayward and easily led astray; sheep are also described as beloved creatures of a caring shepherd. Jesus tells His followers to be "wise as serpents and gentle as doves", a bronze serpent was used in the desert to heal the sick Israelites--elsewhere serpents are regarded as sinister and repulsive, it was a serpent that deceived Eve, both John the Baptist and Jesus refer to religious hypocrites as vipers, the devil is referred to as "that old serpent" and as "the dragon".

Thinking that the Bible is written in some kind of universal magic code is an inherently bad way to read the Bible--as it would be a bad way to read any collection of texts from any era.

Snakes aren't always evil.
Vines aren't always good.
Etc.

-CryptoLutheran

The problem with Christians attempting to read and understand the Bible is that their doctrines have dominion over anything else, including what they might otherwise understand by reading it with an open mind. But they are afraid to question the dogma.