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Featured Jerusalem Is The Whore Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Truth7t7, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  2. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  3. vinsight4u

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  4. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    At least it appears we agree, the great whore and Babylon the great are both the same.

    Yes, Babylon the great who is the great whore will be burned with fire:
    revelation 17:16
    They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire,
    Revelation 18:8
    8For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine,
    and she will be burned up with fire;

    Yes, the Judgments are very similar between Babylon and Babylon the great and there are many that are similar between revelation 18 and Jeremiah 51/Isaiah 47

    Jeremiah states it will sink like a scroll/book tied to a stone
    Jeremiah 51:63
    63When you finish reading this book, tie a stone to it and cast it into the midst of the Euphrates, 64and say, ‘Thus shall Babylon sink, to rise no more, because of the disaster that I am bringing upon her, and they shall become exhausted.’


    Revelation also states that Babylon the great will sink and be no more:
    Revelation 18:21
    Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying,
    “So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence, and will be found no more;

    1.)However, there are also many judgments in revelation 18 that where only given to Israel in the OT.
    Jeremiah 25:10
    Moreover, I will take from them the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp.
    Revelation 18:22-23
    and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer; 23and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer

    2.) Was their any other nation in scripture that was accused of sexual immorality with other kings other than Israel?
    Revelation 18:3
    3For all nations have drunka the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her,

    OT Babylon was charged for killing many people, including the people of Israel.
    Jeremiah 51:49
    49Babylon must fall for the slain of Israel, just as for Babylon have fallen the slain of all the earth.

    But Babylon was never charged with the murdering of the prophets. Only Israel was charged with that:

    Matthew 23:35-37
    35so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,f whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Lament over Jerusalem
    37“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!


    Revelation 18:24
    And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.”

    ___________________________________________________________________

    Revelation 17-19 actually correlate very well with the parable of the marriage feast in Matthew 22:

    Revelation 17: The great whore, who is Babylon the great, vision explained
    Revelation 18: Babylon the great, who the great whore, is punished for blood of the prophets
    Revelation 19: Rejoicing over destruction of great whore and marriage feast of the lamb

    Matthew 22: parable of marriage feast
    1.) initial people invited to marriage feast (OC Israel) reject offer and murder the kings servants
    2.) King is angry about this and kills those who (OC Israel) murdered the servants, and burns their city
    3.) Many others from all over are invited and come to the marriage feast
     
  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you really want to know why... Jerusalem...

    Where on earth did God proclaim that He chose to dwell forever? Zion in Jerusalem (Ps.132).

    Where has the devil said he will sit in God's place? In Isaiah 14...

    Isa 14:12-13
    12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    KJV


    That's Mount Zion in Jerusalem. The sides of the north are the sides of Mount Moriah on which the temple in Jerusalem was built. This is what Apostle Paul shows the "man of sin" of 2 Thess.2 will do in Jerusalem.

    Also see Ezekiel 8 about the "image of jealousy" placed towards the north & Ezekiel 9, which I do not believe has ever been fulfilled.
     
  6. vinsight4u

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    deleted
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  7. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  8. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  9. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  10. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be using Babylon the great and Babylon, mystery who is the great whore interchangeably when discussing judgement. That’s why it appears you believe they are one in the same.
     
  11. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  12. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Yes Jerusalem is the whore, mystery Babylon the great
     
  13. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    When John wrote Revelation, I don't think John was talking about Jerusalem.

    When John wrote Revelation, Jerusalem had been sacked by the Romans.

    I do believe John was talking about Rome, prophets and saints were also slaughtered in great numbers by Rome. In fact, at the time of John's authorship and for the next two thousand years, Jerusalem was not a threat to any Christians.
     
  14. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Sorry Dave your 66-70AD destruction Don't fit the bill.

    Jerusalem Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

    1.) Revelation 18:16KJV
    "The Great City" Babylon

    Revelation 11:8KJV
    "The Great City" where our Lord was crucified "Jerusalem"

    2.) Revelation 18:16KJV
    She Wore linen, purple, scarlet, gold?

    Exodus 39KJV
    Jewish Levitical Priesthood, linen, purple, scarlet, gold.

    3.) Revelation 18:24KJV
    She's guilty of the "Prophets Blood"

    Matthew 23:37KJV
    "Jerusalem" Thou That Killest The Prophets.

    4.) Revelation 16:12-21KJV
    Nations draw to Jerusalem/Israel/Megiddo, Earthquake Destroys "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem.

    5.) Matthew 23:32KJV
    Jerusalem, The Cup of Wrath Is Filled.

    Revelation 16:19KJV, Revelation 18:6KJV
    The Cup Of Gods Wrath Is Poured Out, "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem

    6.) Revelation 17:9KJV
    The whore sits on seven mountains/hills.

    Jerusalem sits on seven mountains/hills.

    7.) Revelation 17:1-4 & 18:9KJV
    Mystery Babylon Fornicates with the Kings of the world, playing the Harlot.

    Ezekiel 16KJV
    Jerusalem fornicates with the Kings of the world, and plays the Harlot.

    8.) Revelation 17KJV
    The Woman/Whore/Jerusalem rides the Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin

    Daniel 11:36-37KJV
    The Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin will be Jewish/Hebrew in decent. His fathers worshipped the true Hebrew God.

    2 Kings 21:22KJV, 2 Chronicles 33:12KJV

    "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers"

    Jerusalem Is The Whore Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great.

    Jesus Christ Is Lord

    Truth7t7
     
  15. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    John's revelation concerned things of the future not the past.

    May I ask you when you think that John wrote revelation?
     
  16. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    In all honesty, a case can be made for either option, Jerusalem and Rome.
     
  17. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Sorry Dave item #3 below alone cancels Rome, it didn't exist to be guilty of the "Prophets" blood, Jerusalem did as Matthew 23:37 clearly describes.

    You fight to keep your "Preterist" interpretation alive, just as the Dispy's fight to keep theirs alive, both interpretations being in error.

    Jerusalem Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

    1.) Revelation 18:16KJV
    "The Great City" Babylon

    Revelation 11:8KJV
    "The Great City" where our Lord was crucified "Jerusalem"

    2.) Revelation 18:16KJV
    She Wore linen, purple, scarlet, gold?

    Exodus 39KJV
    Jewish Levitical Priesthood, linen, purple, scarlet, gold.

    3.) Revelation 18:24KJV
    She's guilty of the "Prophets Blood"

    Matthew 23:37KJV
    "Jerusalem" Thou That Killest The Prophets.

    4.) Revelation 16:12-21KJV
    Nations draw to Jerusalem/Israel/Megiddo, Earthquake Destroys "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem.

    5.) Matthew 23:32KJV
    Jerusalem, The Cup of Wrath Is Filled.

    Revelation 16:19KJV, Revelation 18:6KJV
    The Cup Of Gods Wrath Is Poured Out, "The Great City" Babylon/Jerusalem

    6.) Revelation 17:9KJV
    The whore sits on seven mountains/hills.

    Jerusalem sits on seven mountains/hills.

    7.) Revelation 17:1-4 & 18:9KJV
    Mystery Babylon Fornicates with the Kings of the world, playing the Harlot.

    Ezekiel 16KJV
    Jerusalem fornicates with the Kings of the world, and plays the Harlot.

    8.) Revelation 17KJV
    The Woman/Whore/Jerusalem rides the Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin

    Daniel 11:36-37KJV
    The Beast/Antichrist/Man Of Sin will be Jewish/Hebrew in decent. His fathers worshipped the true Hebrew God.

    2 Kings 21:22KJV, 2 Chronicles 33:12KJV

    "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers"

    Jerusalem Is The Whore Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great.

    Jesus Christ Is Lord

    Truth7t7
     
  18. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Number three, killing the prophets, both cities did that.

    Does tradition indicate that Peter and Paul were also executed in Rome?

    Jesus was not crucified technically in Jerusalem, but outside the city gates and under Roman rule.

    I cannot see that point three excludes Rome.

    Jerusalem was not the city that ruled the kings of the earth?
     
  19. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    All who dwell in the world are not secret/mystery Babylon, else we have contradiction after contradiction. Babylon signifies a city "in" the world, not the world itself. The kings of the world fornicate with "this city" Babylon. You can't have the world fornicating with itself. There is no symbolism in Scripture that supports that.

    Revelation 14:8
    • "And there followed another messenger, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, becauseshe made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."
    Again, clearly God illustrates this woman is a great city in the world, a city that the nations "of the world" drink her wine and (like Israel before them) commit spiritual fornication. She is a spiritual Harlot.

    Revelation 17:5
    • "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
    God calls her that great city, not that great earth or world. Here in this verse God calls her the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, "not" the earth itself. That great city and a Harlot is the exact same words God called "His congregation" Israel because of their spiritual unfaithfulness. Again, Scripture interprets Scripture.

    Look at an example about Cain being the one who slew Abel,

    Genesis 4:9-11
    • "And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
    • And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
    • And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;"
    The message is not that the world can drink blood, or that the world is responsible for Abel's blood, but that "Cain" is. The blood Cain spilled on the ground in symbolism is a witness against him. God saying the earth is drinking it is a metaphor, not a declaration that the world is responsible.

    When God says now you are cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, He is simply saying that because you spilled blood on the earth, the earth will not yield to him its increase as before. It is as a "testimony" to his sin, not that the earth is responsible for Abel's murder. This also confirmed in the very next verse, 12.

    The portrait painted here is that Cain is the first unbeliever of God's people, the first "brother" to rise up WITHIN the family against the Lord's chosen and slay him. Cain is the first viper for he is part of the generation (or family) of evil, the first of the line of those who hate and are offended by the Lord's servants. There would be many more. This is also illustrated in Israel when Christ called those of His people a family of evil. If we consider the mystery wisely, Christ tells us who Babylon is and why all he blood from Abel to his time is required of her.

    Matthew 23:31-35
    • "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
    • Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
    • Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
    • Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
    • That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
    • Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."
    Christ didn't claim that all the blood from Abel to Zechariah would be upon the whole world nor those who heard it in 33AD. Christ didn't say that the world was the seed, the family, the generation of them that killed the prophets. Christ didn't say the world was responsible for killing, persecuting, crucifying and scourging the prophets in their synagogues, Christ said perfectly clearly that it was these people, "His people," who were responsible for this, and who did all these things, and who the blood of Abel was upon. Not the world, them--the unfaithful of His own very congregation. The children of those who slew the prophets. That generation or family. They are spiritually Babylon! Selah!

    How were "they" responsible for the blood of Abel? Just as Christ explained, they were the children (family) of those who killed the prophets. They are part of spiritual family of Satan WITHIN the congregation of Israel which existed in the Old Testament AND the New Testament. Even though they protested that they would never do such a thing, Christ knew they had the exact same murderous, wicked heart of their father the devil. And that congregation is measured the same as their fathers, and would become a cage of devils. This was all proven of course as they ended up having Christ crucified, fulfilling Christ's words. They were of that "same" evil generation or family that Cain was of. It was the Jews, the people who crucified their Prince, Christ! The people of the prince, Daniel 9:26! The whole unfaithful family of Gods congregation (not the world) were the ones killing God's prophets. Read Bible history, it's all right there illustrating that the major antagonists of God's servants were God's own people. The rebellion was brother against brother, Israel against Israel, The Jews against their God. These verses 34 and 35 could have been taken right out of the text of God concerning Babylon, because they are nearly identical. Babylon is the unfaithful congregation, the harlot, "the great whore" which God called Israel again and again. Scripture interprets Scripture. Babylon is a contradiction if it represents the world.

    Luke 11:47-51
    • "Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
    • Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
    • Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
    • That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
    • From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation."
    It shall be required of "this family/generation," all of this generation of vipers, all of this evil and adulterous generation or family of Satan (Adulterous since they are betrothed to God). The children of the devil residing with the Lord's servants and slaying them. They are the ones the church should be wary of, not the world! Not Rome. Not New York! Selah! The world isn't going to kill the witnesses of the church, it is the very people, especially the professed Christians, of the church itself, as spiritually Babylon! Get it?! And why is she called "mystery" Babylon? For the exact reason that so many of the church cannot see who she is. Secret Babylon because few recognize her as the unfaithful church. Like you and Truth7t7, They're too busy claiming she's America, Iraq, the world, Rome, the world system, Mecca, London Royal Bank of Scotland, Jersualem, the list is endless. But those are all private interpretations. God interprets the harlot as His congregation, His people. Period!

    Revelation 17:7
    • "And the messenger said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."
    Think about it, if Babylon is the world, who is the Beast with 10 horns (10 kings) that carries her? The Messenger of the Covenant will explain what is meant by the symbolism of this great city that is now full of abominations, and the secret meaning including the beast and horns and rules. But it is a mystery for a reason, it's in symbolism for a reason, just as Christ said of Israel, that seeing they will see and not understand. The "Revelation" of the mystery is for saints who let Scripture interpret Scripture. Cain, Esau, Judas, etc, they're all of the same generations and the blood of the prophets are required both of them, and of these today, like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, or any professed christians with false doctrines, of that same generation. The generation that will not pass until all is fulfilled when Christ returns!
     
  20. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    No, the scripture definitely is identifying a great city, and this city sits on seven hills!

    The great city sits on many waters and has enormous trade.
     
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