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Featured Jerusalem Is The Whore Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Truth7t7, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    No. Really, ONLY ONE:

    Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Now, what city is this?
     
  2. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I think these two will be Enoch and Elijah, the two men who never died - yet.
    I think they will do what the scriptures tell us they will do.
     
  3. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Speaking of plain clues..
    Do you see ANY of Revelation as the 70th week of Daniel, or what many call "the trib?" I do. I see the 70th week clearly marked by 7's: the 7th seal begins the week, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it. That is 9 chapters about the 70th week. Now, what did Daniel write?

    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Now, what city is this?
     
  4. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    We agree 100%!

    Literal prophets returned, Enoch & Elijah never saw death, appointed unto man once to die.

    Literal plagues, as often as they will.
     
  5. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Hello my friend, off the grid and a little under the weather yesterday. Good observation on Jeremiah, I think John used those two chapters to paint a picture of the Visions God showed him in Revelation chapters 17 and 18. Jesus/John encoded Revelation, to know the future you have to understand the past so to speak, not many get this. As per those two chapters we really need to go back to the previous chapter where Elam in verses Jeremiah 49:36-39 speaks of Elam (part of modern day Iran) will be turned back unto God in the latter time. Elam eventually became a part of Persia. So that is an interesting tidbit in today's geopolitical atmosphere.

    Jeremiah 50

    As per Jeremiah ch. 50, it was of course about Babylon of old, but John used the passage to tell about the Mystical future of Babylon the Great, the City of false gods and the city who chose to serve Bel or Satan, amongst many false Gods whom Jeremiah called out. (Its a Metaphor of Satan's rule of mankind and his Mystical Religions via the Harlot) A few scriptures highlighted from there.

    Jer. 50:2 Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel(Satan or BAAL) is confounded, Merodach(False god) is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces.

    In verses 1-7 it shows Israel being in bondage in Babylon, looking towards Zion for redemption. Then it shows other nations coming again Babylon, freeing Israel from their captors. Thus its just like Jesus returning and freeing Israel who have repented from their captors in the END TIMES.

    8 Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldeans, and be as the he goats before the flocks.

    So Israel is freed from her captivity.

    13 Because of the wrath of the Lord it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be wholly desolate: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues.

    Babylon shall never be Inhabited again. Satan will never have Rule of the earth again after he is defeated at Armageddon and is cast into the bottomless pit.

    17 Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones. 18 Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will punish the king of Babylon and his land, as I have punished the king of Assyria.

    19 And I will bring Israel again to his habitation, and he shall feed on Carmel and Bashan, and his soul shall be satisfied upon mount Ephraim and Gilead. 20 In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.


    So Israel is scattered, just as they were for the 2000 year Church Age. Israel was brought back and Babylon, the World under Satan, will be punished. The False Religion of Babylon will be cast down and destroyed. Then we will get the 1000 year reign where there will be no sin in the land, that is willful sin.


    23 How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations! 24 I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the Lord. 25 The Lord hath opened his armoury, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation: for this is the work of the Lord God of hosts in the land of the Chaldeans.
    27 Slay all her bullocks; let them go down to the slaughter: woe unto them! for their day is come, the time of their visitation. 28 The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of the Lord our God, the vengeance of his temple.


    So in Gods brings His Wrath upon Babylon (Mankind/Satan's Domain).


    31 Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord God of hosts: for thy day is come, (Like unto the DAY of the Lord) the time that I will visit thee. 32 And the most proud shall stumble and fall, and none shall raise him up: and I will kindle a fire (Babylon Burns, the World BURNS via plagues in Rev.) in his cities, and it shall devour all round about him. 33 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; The children of Israel and the children of Judah were oppressed together: and all that took them captives held them fast; they refused to let them go. 34 Their Redeemer is strong; the Lord of hosts is his name: he shall throughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon.


    God is against the proud, today's world are proud and haughty, to many of course there is no God. Then the Day of the Lord shall come upon them, God will burn Babylon (World) with fire, God will save ALL ISRAEL from Babylon. God destroys Babylon and rescues Israel.


    38 A drought is upon her waters; and they shall be dried up: for it is the land of graven images, and they are mad upon their idols. (False Religion) 39 Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation. 40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the Lord; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein. 46 At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is heard among the nations.

    God sees Babylon as the land of FALSE RELIGION (Graven Images/Idols). God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and he overthrew Babylon and when He overthrows Satan and Satan's Kingdoms on earth He sees it as Babylon being defeated. (Revelation 16:19)


    Jeremiah 51
    Jer. 51:1 Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind; 2 And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about.

    5 For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the Lord of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. 6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul {Rev. 18 Come out of Babylon my people} be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the Lord's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.

    7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the Lord's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. 8 Babylon is suddenly fallen (Babylon is Fallen, is fallen) and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed. 9 We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies. 10 The Lord hath brought forth our righteousness: come, and let us declare in Zion the work of the Lord our God. 11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the Lord hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the Lord, the vengeance of his temple. 13 O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.

    God will fight against Babylon in the "Day of troubles" just like He raised up an Army against Babylon proper back in the day. Israel has not been forsaken, even though there was a 2000 year Church Age. God tells them to flee Babylon, or come out of Babylon. (Rev. 18) Babylon will fall before God, and Christ will set up a 1000 year reign on earth and rule from Jerusalem. God seems tobe seeking vengeance for both His Domain being taken away and because His Temple has been profaned. False Governance and False Religion.

    24 And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the Lord. 25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain. 26 And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the Lord. 29 And the land shall tremble and sorrow: for every purpose of the Lord shall be performed against Babylon, to make the land of Babylon a desolation without an inhabitant.

    So God sees Babylon as a Mountain of POWER !! The Seven Heads are SEVEN MOUNTAINS which are also Seven Kings. God says he will destroy the "Mountain" which is destroying all the earth, It (Satan's Governance) will not be used as a "Cornerstone" for Governance, for the World, the Lord God will set up His own Kingdom and it will be given unto the Saints. (Dan. ch. 2). Babylon or evil shall be done away with once and for all.

    44 And I will punish Bel in Babylon (Baal/Satan), and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall. 45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the Lord.

    46 And lest your heart faint, and ye fear for the rumour that shall be heard in the land; a rumour shall both come one year, and after that in another year shall come a rumour, and violence in the land, ruler against ruler. 47 Therefore, behold, the days come, that I will do judgment upon the graven images of Babylon: and her whole land shall be confounded, and all her slain shall fall in the midst of her.

    58 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; The broad walls of Babylon shall be utterly broken, and her high gates shall be burned with fire; and the people shall labour in vain, and the folk in the fire, and they shall be weary. 64 And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

    Both Jeremiah 50 and 51 are of course about the Fall of Babylon to the Medes and Persians. But Jesus/John chose to use these two chapters or this passage to paint a picture of what is going to happen unto THIS WORLD at the End Times !! Babylon is the WHOLE WORLD under the Governance of Satan. The False gods/False Religions will be brought down along with Governance under Satan. Its basically God painting us a picture of the future by using and event of the past.


    People have to understand the Old Testament to understand the book of Revelation and to understand Rev. chapters 17 and 18 they have to understand these two chapters in Jeremiah. along with Dan. ch. 5.

    So as to your question, yes both chapters are about Babylon falling to the Medes and Persians, but God is painting us a picture of an end time event in which He destroys Babylon (Satan's rule over mankind) and all of its False Religions once and for all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  6. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    The whole Seven Years is the 70th Week. The Rapture ends the Church Age and begins Jacobs Troubles or the 70th Week. Why would anyone think that the First Seal, which brings forth the Anti-Christ Conquering Jerusalem, would be the start of Jacobs Troubles? The Anti-Christ or Little Horn comes against Israel/Jerusalem in the Middle of the week (Dan. 9:27).

    70 Weeks are determined upon Israel/Jerusalem , to finish the transgression, to make an end to willful sins, to reconcile unto God, to bring in righteousness, and to fulfill all of the Prophecies.

    Why would anyone think this shows Jerusalem to be the Harlot? That fits in no way, shape, fashion or form. This is about Israel repenting from her sinning against God of course.

    So Israel has sinned against God, Jeremiah prophesies against Israel that they will be led away captive from Jerusalem, and thus they indeed were led captive unto Babylon. During this captivity Daniel is praying unto God and God sends Gabriel unto Daniel to explain the Jeremiah prophesy in full unto him. Thus we get the full understanding of the time-line and what must come to pass.

    In Daniel 9:24, Gabriel explained what Jeremiah prophesied, he prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

    1. Finish the transgression (Israel must turn back unto God/Accept Christ.)
    2. Make and end of sins (Everyday sins, not sins of the flesh but WILLFUL SINS.)
    3. To make reconciliation for iniquity (Israel must atone for sins via the blood of Christ)

    4. Bring in everlasting righteousness (For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.)

    5. To seal up vision and prophecy (All prophesy must be fulfilled by the end/70th Week)
    6. Anoint the most Holy (Jesus will be anointed King of kings and Lord of lords)

    So these SIX THINGS/GOALS have to come to pass before Jeremiahs prophecy can come to pass, and that must happen before the 70th Week is finished. So Israel MUST REPENT before the 70th week is over, does this happen? YES !!

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

    6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    So Israel REPENTS before the Day of the Lord comes upon them, which happens in the Middle of the Week. The FIRST SEAL is Gods Wrath upon mankind. The Holy people of Jerusalem or Israel must REPENT before the 70th Week can come to pass. It has zero to do with Jerusalem being the Harlot of Revelation chapter 17, that is ALL FALSE RELIGION.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  7. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I disagree. I think you are miles off from John's intended meaning about "Mystery Babylon" in Revelation.

    Read and ponder what Daniel wrote about the same time frame we see in many chapters of Revelation (Chapters 8 - 16):

    Dan. 9:
    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city...

    Upon WHO? Upon Daniel's people.
    Upon WHAT CITY? Upon "thy holy city."

    There can be only one meaning for the Babylon of Rev. 17 & 18, and that is the city of Jerusalem.
     
  8. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Good! We are pretty much in agreement here.

    How about because that is exactly what it says?
    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city...

    Upon WHO? Upon Daniel's people or the Hebrew people.
    Upon WHAT CITY? Upon "thy holy city..."
    Which can be no other city than Jerusalem.
     
  9. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Sorry, but the Day of the Lord, as specified by John, begins at the 6th seal, and just before the 70th week begins. I don't believe most of Israel that is to be saved will acknowledge Jesus as Lord until they see the nail holes in His hands, and that cannot be until He returns.

    We agree: Jerusalem! But Jerusalem is A CITY as John said, NOT ALL FALSE RELIGION!

    Stop and ponder for a moment: what will be the state of all who were Buddhists before the 70th week? What will be the state of all who were Hindu's before the 70th week? How about Muslims? How about ever false religion we can name? According to John, they will ALL be deceived into accepting the Beast as God, and accepting His mark. Therefore all false religions will have decreased down to ONE: the religion of the Beast. And his headquarters will be Jerusalem. Since that is the Beast's headquarters, and since Satan ill be inside the beast, then the seat of Satan will move to Jerusalem. it will become the headquarters of every demonic spirit. Sorry, but your theory of all false religions simply does not fit. John said it is a CITY. He is speaking of the city of Jerusalem as the center for the worst deception ever put upon man.
     
  10. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Of course you do, you already have an idea in your head what it means and men's hearts and minds are the toughest thing to change once they have their mind set. That is the reason I take no positions in the affirmative until God assuages me via the Holy Spirit. By the way, it never says Mystery Babylon, it says MYSTERY,(COMMA), Babylon the Great, Abominations of the Earth, and Mother of Harlots. Why people call it Mystery Babylon I have no clue.

    I answered this in the post above no use repeating it here.

    I don't get how this is not slam dunk easy. It has nothing to do with Jerusalem. This is about Israels sin 2500 years or more ago, they are brought back in 1948, why would you think God brought them back just to DESTROY Jerusalem? That makes zero sense brother. God brought Israel back because of his promise to Abraham, Israel REPENTS !! So why would you assume God still has anything against them? When you or I repented was God still angry at our sins or did He place them as far as the East is from the West?

    Its make absolutely no sense whatsoever Brother.

    No it does not brother !! Just because we/you see a VISION of people realizing they are in the Day of the Lord doesn't mean that is when it started. Its the old way of thinking, well since I have thought that for 20 years I got to keep thinking that way. God does nothing outside of symmetry. God did not start the Lambs Wrath at the 6th Seal, it amazes me that people still think this way. Jesus is opening the Seals, thus this is the Lambs Wrath upon mankind. Just because we/you see a VISION where some men are seen saying we are in the Lambs Wrath in NO WAY Excludes all of the Seals from being the Lambs Wrath.

    As per Israel doesn't repent until right before Jesus returns your belief can't be right according to Malachi 4:5-6. We are to believe scriptures over our own understandings right? Zechariah 12:10 and Zechariah 13:1 both show Israel REPENTING and then Zechariah 14:1-2 showing Jerusalem getting sacked, and then Zechariah 14:3-4 shows Jesus returning and sacking the Beast and his minions. Zech. 1 and 2 is Rev. 6 (Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem) and Rev. 16 is Zech. 3 and 4.

    The Two-Witnesses bring Israel unto repentance. Jesus prophesied the next time the Jews see him coming they will say blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord. Why would Jesus/God PROTECT Israel in the Wilderness BEFORE THEY REPENT ? !!

    Why does Israel FLEE UNTO THE WILDERNESS? They have read the book of Matthew, they have started HEEDING JESUS' WORDS !! If they still hated Jesus they would not Flee unto the Wilderness, taking his advice !! THEY HAVE ALREADY REPENTED !!

    What do you think Matthew 24:15-28 is all about? Jesus warning the END TIME SAINTS (Jews) what they should do. He is like HEY.....When you see the Beast sit in the Temple FLEE to the Wilderness. Then hes like HEY.....when you see Beast and False Prophet (verse 24) DO NOT BELIEVE THEM, they will preform miracles and try to get you to believe it is ME/Jesus come again, but do not go out unto them in the desert or in the secret chambers...............For I will come out of the Eastern Skies like Lightning, IMMEDIATELY AFTER (NOT DURING !!!) the Tribulation of those days.

    Jesus is saying STAY IN YOUR PROTECTED ZONE (Probably Petra) for 1260 days, do not be stupid and come out thinking I have returned. Jesus is talking to people who have REPENTED !! They would not be listening unto his voice if they had not of REPENTED !! Malachi says Israel REPENTS before the Day of the Lord.

    2/3 of the Jewish peoples will die, 1/3 will FLEE unto Petra/Wilderness. But ALL ISRAEL IS SAVED, meaning Israel as a Nation or Israels SEED is preserved. ALL ISRAEL is not ALL JEWS.

    I don't care what Jerusalem is or is not, I can't be the Harlot. The Harlot is ON MANY WATERS, meaning its all over the whole world because MANY WATERS means MANY Nations, Tongues, Multitudes and Peoples. (WORLDWIDE).

    The word of Jesus Christ has been spread all over the World, you can't make people accept a WORD VIA Christ Jesus buy all have heard. After the Rapture the beast will not seek to COMBINE all Religions into one religion. Let me ask you a serious question, if you were a General and someone told you they wanted to have a NEW WORLD Government and they wanted to have a ONE WORLD RELIGION where all the World worshiped MANKIND via whoever the Ruler of the World is as the ONLY GOD, what would be your recommendations?

    If ANY GENERAL told me lets bring all the Religions under ONE UMBRELLA I would fire him on the spot if I was the Anti-Christ or one of his Kings. Religion COMING TOGETHER (LOL) Really !!! Give me a break man !! We can't even get Churches not to argue my brother. That would NEVER, EVER, EVER WORK. The PLAN WOULD BE THIS:

    Surprise attack Israel, the Arab Oil Nations, destroy Islam and all world religions, then order everyone to Worship the Beast as God or DIE !! There is not going to be a summit with Muslims, they are going to kill off Islam in a flash !! They will not have to dicker with them at all. Its MY WAY or its the HIGHWAY. The Beast is not playing games.

    The Beast will make his abode in the Holy Mountain. And he will probably have an abode in Rome also, and in Belgium.

    I don't have a "Theory". I don't do theory, I listen to the Holy Spirit.
     
  11. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    This Babylon is identified in Revelation 18:24 as being guilty of killing the prophets, and guilty of the earths blood?

    Matthew 23:35-37 answers this question not close, but "Exactly"

    Jerusalem killed the prophets, and is guilty of the earths blood.

    Revelation 17:1-4 & Revelation 18:9
    This Mystery Babylon fornicates with the Kings of the earth, playing the harlot.

    Ezekiel 16 "The Entire Chapter" Is Screaming Jerusalem Is The Harlot!

    And gives the exact explanation of "Jerusalem" fornicating with the earths Kings, playing the harlot, this time is at the end, when the Lord Pours the cup of his indignation out.

    Throughout Revelation 17/18 this Mystery Babylon is noted as "Great City"

    Revelation 11:8 clearly defines this "Great City" as Jerusalem, where Jesus was crucified.

    My Holy Spirit say's case closed, on these facts alone.

    Jerusalem Is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots.

    Jesus Christ Is Lord

    Truth7t7
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  12. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    Actually... they did die. Ya, shocker, I know. I just found out myself.
     
  13. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  14. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  15. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Having Babylon of Revelation be Jerusalem makes more and more sense to me. Esp. because the major source of persecution in the early Church was other Jews. But then again I believe most of the events described in Revelation have already happened and that much of it is symbolic.
     
  16. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Do you imagine that the Greek uses commas? Do you imagine you alone hear from the Holy Spirit?

    You seem to have a very good imagination. Israel as a nation REJECTED Jesus as their Messiah. The PEOPLE living in Israel today that are descendants of Jacob - most of them are still rejecting Jesus as their Messiah. Did you just overlook what Daniel wrote? He gives us the PURPOSE for the 70th week - what He is going to accomplish.

    Dan. 12:7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."

    You see, for the most part, they trust in their IDF. God is going to get them to the place when they had nothing left and they MUST trust in Him or be destroyed. Again read what Daniel wrote:

    Dan. 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

    Do you see it? If all 70 weeks are for the Holy City, then the 70th week for sure is for the Holy City.
     
  17. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Do you imagine that everything Jesus does must be done in wrath? How amazing! If you would study Isaiah 2, and Joel 2, and compare with the 6th seal, you would know WHY they knew this was the start of the Day of the Lord. They were correct in their assumption and you are wrong.

    Stop and think! If the seals are the wrath of God, they God is angry with the Martyrs, and God is killing them! Sorry, but that is silly. God is not killing the martyrs, nor is God angry with them.

    You are determined to pull the first seals out of their setting and context. Always remember, anyone can make any scripture say most anything if they are willing to pull it out of the context. But you are willing to ignore the context and say it is the Holy Spirit. Go back and read it again!

    John saw the moment Jesus ascended into the throne room, right after telling Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended. That event was around 32 AD. And that is when Jesus got the scroll and began opening the seals. In other words, seal 1 was opened in 32 AD to represent the CHURCH taking the GOSPEL to the world. Sorry, my friend, but that is NOT WRATH. Neither are seals 2, 3, and 4 God's wrath. They are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel.
    If we believe Jesus, John the Baptist fulfilled this prophecy. Therefore, if Elijah is to be one of the two witnesses, he will not have to come before the start of the Day of the Lord. And it may not even be Elijah as one of the two witnesses.

    10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Sorry, but they will not be able to "look upon me" until Jesus returns, which will be as shown in Rev. 19. It will be that day when Jesus returns that they look upon Him. Your correlation between Zech. and Revelation is myth. Zech. is writing this in the second year of Darius, and most of it is about Jerusalem and Israel THEN.
    The horseman said "behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest." Sorry, but this does NOT describe Israel during the end times.

    Next, Rev. 6 is CHURCH AGE, not end times. Not until the 6th seal do we get to the end times. And the Antichrist will not attack Jerusalem until after the Midpoint. Did you forget he will enter the temple at the midpoint and declare he is god?

    The book of Revelation is the most complete end time prophecy that exists. It is a close look at the things the minor prophets only mentioned in passing. If we take Revelation as it is written and don't try to rearrange it, we will have end time truth.

    Can you show us a scripture to this effect - that the two witnesses will bring Israel to repent? I have never seen such a scripture. God will protect those who flee simply because He does not wish them dead! They will be in the Millennial Kingdom.
     
  18. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  19. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  20. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Sorry, but trying to save their life does not mean they have repented. Did you know they read the New Testament in the high schools in Israel? They know what it says, but blindness will still be upon them until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

    Your imagination is going wild again. We have to have SCRIPTURE. Show us the scripture in Malachi with your understanding of it.

    Then you are disagreeing with John. How in the world can the beast deceive the entire world UNLESS he has power of the entire world. Oh! Wait! He IS given power of the whole word! John tells us this. You still don't understand the mystery part of this. Jerusalem was suppose to be the city that led the entire world to God! Remember the Queen of Sheba? But instead, the city of Jerusalem becomes the seat of Satan and the Beast and False Prophet deceive the entire world from there.
    This is your imagination again, not scripture. John tells us the Beast and False prophet will deceive the entire world. You don't seem to get that! That means Buddhists will be deceived. That means Muslims will be deceived. That means Hindu's will be deceived. Of course they are already deceived, but not the way they WILL BE when this happens. They will all join forces with the Beast, worship the image and take the mark.
    Ya. Right. What you do is imagination; at least some of the time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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