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Featured Jerusalem Is The Whore Of Revelation, Mystery Babylon The Great

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Truth7t7, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    As I said before, Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem, outside the gates of Jerusalem.

    Chapter eleven of Revelation is talking about a different city, to the whore city of chapter seventeen.
     
  2. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    So your stating "The Great City" seen in the verse below isn't Jerusalem, then what city is it?

    Revelation 11:8
    And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
     
  3. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    The city in the text above (Rev 11) is different to the city (Rev 17).

    One is called Sodom and Egypt and the other is called Babylon the mother of harlots.

    Different names means different cities!
     
  4. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Well is it Sodom or Egypt?
    Was Jesus crucified there?

    You state it can't be Jerusalem because Jesus was crucified outside the city walls a few hundred yards?

    Don't you see your reasoning in disregarding the clear scripture, as you run from it's simple truth?

    Revelation 11:8
    And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  5. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    No clear exact answer of actual location as various researchers have slightly varied answer crucifixion.PNG
     
  6. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Israel is the Bride of God who was discarded, by God, in Babylon, as a harlot. The Jews of today are from the House of Judah which fell in 587 B.C.. The House of Israel is dominated by Judah’s brother Joseph and his descendants are Josephites, not Jews. The House of Israel fell in 722 B.C.. The Jews maintained their lineage but the Josephites are lost in the masses and scattered to the world today. Jacob/Israel bypassed the twelve tribes of Israel and placed the ‘Blessing of Abraham’ on his grandson, Joseph’s son, Ephraim. The Blessing of Abraham is, myriads of descendants, will grow to become a multitude of nations (Genesis 48:17, 41:52, Joshua 17:14), with world dominant power (Genesis 17:15, 22:17, 24:60, 27:29, 37:5, 41:39, Revelation 17:15) and great wealth (Deuteronomy 33:1). The beast the harlot is riding on is world dominant power. The heads of the beast are the dynasties of Ephraim’s descendants past and present. These heads include Greece, The Roman Empire, England, France, Spain, Germany, the United States, Russia, and more. These are the countries where Ephraim's descendants live and dominates the world from today. Ephraim Rules in the form of a multitude of nations so dynasties have multiple world dominant powers at the same time. Ephraim is, GEN 33 “The majestic bull, his father’s first-born, whose horns are those of the wild ox with which to gore the nations, even those at the ends of the earth”. Babylon was a kingdom of business men and tradesmen. Though Israel enters Babylon as conquered slaves, like Joseph in Egypt, they take over and rule symbolic Babylon today, due to their possession of the Blessing of Abraham. The fall of Babylon in the Book of Revelation is the fall of Ephraim, (his descendants) at Armageddon. ( Hos 5:9 Ephraim shall become a waste on the day of chastisement.) Ephraim is also the Prodigal son in Christ’s parable. The harlot of Babylon falls at our near future Battle of Armageddon, in the Book of Revelation, to make way for Christ’s Kingdom Come. Jesus will Rule the earth, with and through His Church, the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is made up of people from all races and nations. Catholics, faithful to Jesus, will be the New Jerusalem and rightful heirs to Abraham, under Messianic Reign. Let Jesus Rule! Hallelujah!
     
  7. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Not running from any truth, just not saying something that scripture never says.

    Sodom, Egypt are names of Jerusalem.

    Babylon is John's name for Rome.

    The great city had world trade in goods that Jerusalem never had.

    The great city ruled the kings of the earth which Jerusalem never did.

    Revelation 17
    6 And I saw the woman drunk with saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.

    Jerusalem may have executed a few witnesses of Jesus, but Jerusalem was not around long enough to have any impact on those that believed in Jesus.

    Rome has slaughtered so many witnesses of Jesus, it is impossible to know just how many.

    John wrote his letter after Jerusalem had fallen, so we know that the whore was not Jerusalem. John was in prison under the Roman emperor Domition. There is almost no doubt that John was describing Rome in chapter seventeen.

    6 And I saw the woman drunk with saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.

    Also you will notice that John does not recognize which city the harlot is, but John knew Jerusalem well. Though John may never have even been to Rome. This verse tells us that the whore is Rome.

    Keep smiling, never lose that smile.
     
  8. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise anymore" (Revelation 18:11)

    Scripture tells us that this great city is the New Testament Congregation as she has wandered in the world (wilderness) with Gospel, Revelation 17:18. Scripture also tells us that this very woman (city) reigns over the kings of the earth [More on "kings of the earth" later on different thread]. It is Christ and His Church who reigns over the kings of the earth. However, this woman has fallen into spiritual adultery. Now, in the final years of this earth's existence, she is termed the "Mother of Harlots." This is the manifestation and the unveiling of the abomination of desolation found in the church worldwide. In this post, we will briefly examine the two merchandises you asked me to explain, which rightfully belongs to the true merchant, i.e. Christ and His bride - the Church. It is the lack of this merchandise within the organized and corporate church that provokes the weeping and mourning of the true spiritual merchants, Elect. It is the time of Great Tribulation. Satan has shrewdly and cunningly taken his seat within the corporate church, unnoticed by any and all who are spiritually blind to this prophecy. The question is asked, are these literal merchants of the earth? Are they weeping over the loss of material goods that are being destroyed at Judgment Day? Or do we dare suppose that these merchants are spiritual merchants of the true Gospel weeping and mourning over the fact that the true Gospel is no longer heard (or can't be buy and sold) in the corporate church?

    The following is a list of the merchandise belonging to these merchants, of which are no longer to be found in this woman; this great city in the wilderness.

    "The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,"

    "And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men." (Revelation 18:12-13).

    Now we will examine two items you asked me to explain:

    Cinnamon

    Other than in Revelation chapter eighteen, the word "cinnamon" is used in only three other verses, all of which are Old Testament references. "Cinnamon" was a substance or an ingredient used in holy oil for anointing. We find this word used in Exodus 30:23, where God commands Moses to make a holy anointing oil, that he should anoint the following: the tabernacle of the congregation; with the ark of the testimony, the table and its vessels, the candlestick, the altar of incense, the altar of burnt offering with all its vessels, the laver (wash bowl) and its foot (stand), and Aaron and his sons. This was done as God requested. "This shall be a holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations," (Exodus 30:31). To be anointed with holy anointing oil is surely depicting the baptism of the Holy Ghost
    upon all of God's elect within His completed Temple - the body of Christ.

    Proverbs chapter seven teaches the shrewdness and craftiness of the religious harlot; "... a woman the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart," (verse 10). This is not simply any non-Christ centered religion. This harlot is taught to be disguised and masquerading as the one true religion. Neither is she presumptuously bringing some bizarre but recognizable false gospel. No, she is a harlot; spiritually defiled, and yet is successfully deceiving multitudes with her imitation of Christ. She has "cast many down wounded: yea, many strong have been slain by her, (Proverbs 7:26).

    Her house is the way to hell, verse twenty-seven. She is suggesting that her virtues and traits are true, and indistinguishable from that of God's true Church. Her resting place, by analogy her bed (Proverbs 7:16), is decked with coverings of tapestry. In comparison, we read of the true Church of God in Proverbs 31:22 "She maketh herself coverings of tapestry..." Everything about this religious harlot is only mimicking God's true Church. She continues: "I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon, (Proverbs 7:17). Christ's true Church possesses, among many allegorical figures, "cinnamon, myrrh, and aloes," Song of Solomon 4:14.

    ODOURS [Spices]

    "Odours" is yet another segment of God's merchandise that has been taken away from this religious harlot of Revelation chapter eighteen. Strong's Greek defines "odours" as "an aroma, for example, to offer aromatic fumes; burnt incense."

    "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints," (Revelation 5:8).

    We know from the above verse alone that "odours" are representative of the prayers of the saints. The word "odour" is also translated as "incense" in Revelation chapter eight, and again is associated with the prayers of the saints.

    "And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense [same word as "odour"], that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne."

    "And the smoke of the incense [odour], which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand," (Revelation 8:3-4).

    Our prayers to God are indeed a pertinent part of our spiritual sacrifices (odours).

    "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." (Hebrews 13:15)

    Christ Himself was given as the ultimate sacrifice, of which was symbolically pictured as a sweet-smelling savour.

    "And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour." (Ephesians 5:2)

    As "odours" is defined as to offer burnt incense, we saw that it represents (in addition to Old Testament burnt offerings), the prayers of the saints. Odours are seen in the Old Testament being affiliated with the tabernacle of the congregation and also Solomon's Temple.

    "According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot [duty] was to burn incense [odours] when he went into the Temple of the Lord." (Luke 1:9)

    Someday Satan and all of fallen man will acknowledge that Christ is LORD of LORDS. As Daniel typified Christ in the Old Testament, so King Nebuchadnezzar was a type of Satan, no doubt. All of creation, saved and unsaved will bow to Christ at His second coming:

    "Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him." (Daniel 2:46)

    The Old Testament Hebrew word for odours carries the meaning of "spices," "fragrance," and even "restful," "pleasant," or "delight." The LORD commanded Moses to speak to the congregation of the children of Israel. In doing so, Moses said: "...whosoever is of a willing heart, let him bring it, an offering of the LORD..." (Exodus 35:5).

    Among the many offerings for the tabernacle in the wilderness was "...oil for the light, and spices [odours] for anointing oil, and for the sweet incense," (Exodus 35:8). Spices (odours) was just one of many ingredients used for the service in the Old Testament tabernacle. When we go back to Song of Solomon we find the Hebrew word for "odour" is also used as "spices." Chapter four and verse ten has the bride of Christ in view:

    "How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse [bride in Hebrew]! How much better is thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices!" (Song of Solomon 4:10)

    The Church of Jesus Christ is no doubt a sweet smelling fragrance to Christ, figuratively speaking. When the Apostle Paul wrote to the saints at Philippi (Philippians chapter four) he expressed his gratitude and thankfulness that even when he was in Thessalonica the saints at Philippi "sent once again unto my necessity," Philippians 4:16. Whatever the gift was, Paul continues in verse seventeen by saying "Not because I desire a gift, but I desire fruit that may abound [be added] to your account." Finally in verse eighteen Paul states: "But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things from you, an odour of sweet smell, a sacrifice well-pleasing to God."

    Because Paul was loved by many saints in the churches he helped to establish, he was, no doubt, given physical substance by some, like those at Philippi. In the above verse, Paul states that he received from Epaphroditus the "things" which were sent from Philippi. Immediately he reflects upon them: an odour of sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable and well-pleasing to God. Is it reasonable to assume that the saints at Philippi, in attempting to help Paul in his travels, would determine and conclude that he needed some type of odors or "incense" to help him reach his next destination? Of course not. Paul is not disclosing what the gift was, he simply refers to it as "the things."

    Whatever the gift (no doubt a collection from the church; perhaps money and food), Paul says of it that he desires not a gift, but he desires Christian fruit, that may abound to your account. The gift to Paul was not perfume or anything of that nature, but it was material goods to help him in his journeys. This was done by the brethren to demonstrate the fruits of the Spirit; Christian love to Paul and to God. This then is precisely why Paul says of it: "...an odour of sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, well-pleasing to God." As small as it may have been, it indeed was a sacrifice to God.

    "... inasmuch as ye have done unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done unto me ...," (Matthew 25:40).

    Hebrews 13:16 absolutely confirms this:

    "But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased."

    Our good works, once we are saved, are performed not as any type of work to get us into heaven, but our good works (whatever they may be) are done as a spiritual sacrifice unto our Heavenly Father which the spices represent. Faithful prayer (the odour of the saints, Rev. 5:8, 8:4) is a good work and a spiritual sacrifice, well-pleasing unto God.

    When we look back to Song of Solomon chapter five we see a beautiful metaphorical portrait of Christ, the bridegroom

    "His cheeks as a bed of spices [odours], sweet flowers: his lips lilies, dropping sweet smelling myrrh," (Song of Solomon 5:13).

    In addition to Christ and His bride both being referenced as "sweet spices," Song of Solomon tells us in chapter eight and verse fourteen that the kingdom of God is as the "mountains of spices."

    Throughout scripture, the Kingdom of God is typified as a mountain or mountains. For example:

    "mountain of his holiness," Psalm 48:1.
    "Mountain of myrrh," Song of Solomon 4:6.
    "Hill of frankincense," Song of Solomon 4:6.
    "Mountains of brass," Zechariah 6:1.

    Notice particularly that spices, myrrh, frankincense, and brass and all included
    in Mystery Babylon's list of merchandise that has been taken from her, as God's righteous judgment upon her. Of course, these are all spiritual word pictures (symbols) of God and His magnificent plan of salvation. Not literal things.

    In the time of her judgment, neither will odours and spices (saintly prayers and good works) be found in Mystery Babylon. This is one more indicator that the apostate church (the religious harlot) of the tribulation period is mimicking the true Church of God, while lacking the true power of Christ. She is strictly representative of the apostate church after the abomination of desolation has set in, and Satan has taken his seat in the Temple (Church) of God, II Thessalonians 2:4. Thus is why the acceptable sacrifice (spice) will not be found in her because of the false doctrines of the false prophets and christs therein.
     
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  9. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    The Roman Catholic Church?
     
  10. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Well some things are agreeable - but Jesus does not have a catholic church - never did and never will - Jesus church is not a denominational church - Jesus people are from a diverse background of churches whether they be from a non-denominational church- catholic- baptist- Pentecostal- or any other denomination- the criteria is repentance of sins and accepting Jesus Messiah as lord and savoir and living for Lord Jesus and not for them self , even atheists that repent and accept Jesus as Lord and savoir will be part of Jesus Bride Church - remember the thief on the cross next to Christ when they crucified him when Jesus told him that he would be in paradise on that day with Jesus ?
    He will be part of Jesus church too
    Praise be to King Jesus the Alpha and Omega !
     
  11. Scott Perkins

    Scott Perkins New Member

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    Thank you, someone who actually reads the Bible, easiest prophecy in scripture to understand.
     
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  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    .
     
  13. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Well done!
     
  14. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    Ya, but so many Christians just don't want to admit anything that shines a bad light on the Jews.
     
  15. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    According to Dr. Ken Gentry, the "Whore of Babylon" = physical Jerusalem (1st century AD)...

    she, as a fornicator, suggestively "rode" the "beast of the Sea" with "seven heads" being "seven hills" = physical pagan imperial Rome (1st century AD)...
    • Mysterious Harlot of Babylon = physical apostate Jerusalem (1st century AD)
    • 7-headed beast of the Sea = physical pagan Rome (1st century AD)
    I myself would add, that Revelations 17 says the "kings of the world" (= pagan Roman emperors, rulers of the then-known world) "fornicated" with Mysterious Babylon (= apostate Jerusalem) who thusly "ruled over the kings of the world". John 19:12 shows the apostate Jerusalem leaders actually speaking for, and putting words into, the mouth of Caesar Tiberias, stating who was friend (or foe) of the same! They could do so because their scheming & ceaseless politicking imbued them with imperial authority -- they were "in bed with" the Caesars, and "came out on top".

    Caesar Nero (= 666 = 6th head of the Beast) even physically wed Poppaea Sabina, a Jewish empress. Given that Jews trace lineage through the mother, her child would have become the next Jewish emperor of the whole known-world (cp. Josephus describes the "star prophesy" popular at the time).
     
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  16. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    You are miles off from the intent of scripture as far as timing. This is PROPHECY meaning something that was not fulfilled in John's day, and still not fulfilled. Jerusalem will be the great wh*re ONLY during the time that the Antichrist Beast is deceiving the entire world from that city. This will be the worst ever deception ever foisted upon the human race. It will deceive the entire world, save those few whose names are written in heaven. The deception of any false religion of today will pale in comparison.
     
  17. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Preterism is one valid interpretation of Revelation
     
  18. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    The intent of the Author was and is not two or three meanings to every verse. His intent that each verse has one simple meaning. Either preterism is the right meaning, or futurism is the right meaning. Sorry, but futurism is BY FAR the majority here. No preterist has ever shown us in history when the first 6 trumpet judgments happened. They cannot because these events are future.

    When we compare past and fulfilled prophecies, such as the 300 or so prophecies concerning the coming Messiah (coming when they were written) we find they were fulled "to the letter" exactly as they were written. Why would anyone imagine that prophecies written in Revelation would be any different? Of course, we all understand there will not be a literal beast with 7 heads and 10 horns. What we should understand is there will be 7 nations with seven kings or leaders.

    To attempt to find 7 nations back in history that would fit - would be futile, simply because in context, John was speaking of yet future events. There has never been an event, for example, that has killed 1/3 of earth's population in a short period of time.

    Therefore I must disagree: preterism is not a valid interpretation.
     
  19. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Sodom is a city, Egypt is a country.
    Sodom....Jerusalem ?
    Egypt....Israel ?


    Romans 9:
    27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:[fn]
    “Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
    The remnant will be saved.
    29 And as Isaiah said before:
    Unless the LORD of Sabaoth[fn] had left us a seed,
    We would have become like Sodom,
    And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”[fn]
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
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  20. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sodom & Egypt alludes to "Sodom & Gomorrah"...

    so in some sense there are three (3) sinful cities alluded to,

    Sodom
    Gomorrah
    Babylon

    Noting that "Babylon" could refer to Nimrod & Tower of Babel as much as the Exile, perhaps the three (3) cities, all from the 3rd millennium BC, reflect how the "Great City is divided into three parts" (paraphrase) by a great earthquake. (Revelation 16:19)

    ???


    still think that, in broad brush strokes, it's easy to construe the various plagues and calamities of Revelation as reflections of the events surrounding Roman-Jewish relations leading up to and during the 1st Jewish-Roman war of 66-73 AD
     
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