Jehovah's Witnesses

answer: NO θεοτητος = deity, divine quality, godlike excellence

Latin translates it as divinitas, which is the divine quality of the nature of God.


Lets look at the Greek and [Tr. Greek]...

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the
Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. Acts 17:29

"theios", "θεῖος" = "1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks;2) spoken of the only and true God, trinity;a) of Christ;b) Holy Spirit;c) the Father" [Strong's Concordance], see also Thayer's Lexicon, "divine, divinity, diety", etc; and see "Divine: "divine" (from theos, "God"), is used of the power of God, 2Pe 1:3, and of His nature, ver. 4, in each place, as that which proceeds from Himself. In Act 17:29 it is used as a noun with the definite article, to denote "the Godhead," the Deity (i.e., the one true God). This word, instead of theos, was purposely used by the Apostle in speaking to Greeks on Mars Hill, as in accordance with Greek usage. Cp. DIVINITY. In the Sept., Exd 31:3; 35:31; Job 27:3; 33:4; Pro 2:17. " [Vine's Expository]Part of Speech: Adjective; Case: Accusative; Number: Singular; Gender: Neuter

Act 17:29
[E-Sword] γενος ουν υπαρχοντες του θεου ουκ οφειλομεν νομιζειν χρυσω η αργυρω η λιθω χαραγματι τεχνης και ενθυμησεως ανθρωπου το θειον ειναι ομοιον

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
genoV oun uparconteV tou qeou ouk ofeilomen nomizein crusw h argurw h liqw caragmati tecnhV kai enqumhsewV anqrwpou to qeion einai omoion

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
genoV oun uparconteV tou qeou ouk ofeilomen nomizein crusw h argurw h liqw caragmati tecnhV kai enqumhsewV anqrwpou to qeion einai omoion


Byzantine Majority
genoV oun uparconteV tou qeou ouk ofeilomen nomizein crusw h argurw h liqw caragmati tecnhV kai enqumhsewV anqrwpou to qeion einai omoion


Alexandrian
genoV oun uparconteV tou qeou ouk ofeilomen nomizein crusw h argurw h liqw caragmati tecnhV kai enqumhsewV anqrwpou to qeion einai omoion


Hort and Westcott
genoV oun uparconteV tou qeou ouk ofeilomen nomizein crusw h argurw h liqw caragmati tecnhV kai enqumhsewV anqrwpou to qeion einai omoion


Now lets us consider another:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and
Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

Paul speaks of the Creator...

"theiotēs" "θειότης" = "1) divinity, divine nature" [Strong's Concordance]; see also Thayer's Lexicon "divinity, divine", and also see, "Divinity: "divinity," the RV rendering in Rom 1:20 (AV, "Godhead"), is derived from theios (see DIVINE, A), and is to be distinguished from theotes, in Col 2:9, "Godhead." In Rom 1:20 the Apostle "is declaring how much of God may be known from the revelation of Himself which He has made in nature, from those vestiges of Himself which men may everywhere trace in the world around them. Yet it is not the personal God whom any man may learn to know by these aids; He can be known only by the revelation of Himself in His Son; . . . But in the second passage (Col 2:9), Paul is declaring that in the Son there dwells all the fullness of absolute Godhead; they were no mere rays of Divine glory which gilded Him, lighting up His Person for a season and with a splendor not His own; but He was, and is, absolute and perfect God; and the Apostle uses theotes to express this essential and personal Godhead of the Son" (Trench, Syn. ii). Theotes indicates the "Divine" essence of Godhood, the Personality of God; theiotes, the attributes of God, His "Divine" nature and properties.
See GODHEAD." [Vine's Expository]


Romans 1:20 τα γαρ αορατα αυτου απο κτισεως κοσμου τοις ποιημασιν νοουμενα καθοραται η τε αιδιος αυτου δυναμις και θειοτης εις το ειναι αυτους αναπολογητους

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
ta gar aorata autou apo ktisewV kosmou toiV poihmasin nooumena kaqoratai h te aidioV autou dunamiV kai qeiothV eiV to einai autouV anapologhtouV

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
ta gar aorata autou apo ktisewV kosmou toiV poihmasin nooumena kaqoratai h te aidioV autou dunamiV kai qeiothV eiV to einai autouV anapologhtouV


Byzantine Majority
ta gar aorata autou apo ktisewV kosmou toiV poihmasin nooumena kaqoratai h te aidioV autou dunamiV kai qeiothV eiV to einai autouV anapologhtouV


Alexandrian
ta gar aorata autou apo ktisewV kosmou toiV poihmasin nooumena kaqoratai h te aidioV autou dunamiV kai qeiothV eiV to einai autouV anapologhtouV


Hort and Westcott
ta gar aorata autou apo ktisewV kosmou toiV poihmasin nooumena kaqoratai h te aidioV autou dunamiV kai qeiothV eiV to einai autouV anapologhtouV


Now let us consider:

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the
Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

"theotēs" "θεότης" = "1) deity;a) the state of being God, Godhead" [Strong's Concordance], see also Thayer's Lexicon, "deity, the state of being God"; originating from "theos".

Colossians 2:9
οτι εν αυτω κατοικει παν το πληρωμα της θεοτητος σωματικως

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
oti en autw katoikei pan to plhrwma thV qeothtoV swmatikwV

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
oti en autw katoikei pan to plhrwma thV qeothtoV swmatikwV


Byzantine Majority
oti en autw katoikei pan to plhrwma thV qeothtoV swmatikwV


Alexandrian
oti en autw katoikei pan to plhrwma thV qeothtoV swmatikwV


Hort and Westcott
oti en autw katoikei pan to plhrwma thV qeothtoV swmatikwV


The words clearly stem from Theos, which is God. In Christ Jesus is Eternal Life, unborrowed, underived. I am the Way, the Truth and the Life... Definite articles "the". For as was shown earlier, Christ Jesus is the YHVH the Son. He is the Good Shepherd, He is the Husband, He is the Covenant Maker, He is the Creator of all things who is before all things, God blessed forever [lest Paul contradicts himself; Acts 17:24,25; Colossians 1:20, "himself"; 1 Corinthians 8:6 "by whom are all things"; Ephesians 4:10, "above all"; Colossians 2:2-3, "mystery of GOD [the Spirit], and of the Father, and of Christ", "in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge"; 1 Timothy 3:16, "Great is the mystery of Godliness...God manifest in the flesh"; Colossians 1:16, "all things created...all things were created", etc, etc].

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: - Matthew 28:19

"name" is singular. "the name", "the" [definite article, something specific, the name is the very Character of God, see Exodus 34:5-8] While the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are plurality of persons. "the Father", "the Son" and "the Holy Ghost [Spirit]". "the" Definite articles.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: - Deuteronomy 6:4

"one" is unity. 'Echad, not yachid.

"in the name" ..... that name is "YHWH" [Jehovah] - Exodus 6:3. A name they share, the character they share.

They are one in purpose, in mind, in character, but not in person.
 
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...
Joh 1:14 And the word became flesh, and tabernacled among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten from the Father,) full of grace and truth. ...

The Gospel of John, really is not the place to demote Jesus Christ to less than He is, God. In fact, all of John's Gospel, His letters and Revelation speak of Christ Jesus being God.

John 1:1-2, clearly reveal that the WORD [CHRIST JESUS] was ever eternally with the FATHER. This is how Christ Jesus can be witness and testify.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

Forwards and backwards, positive and negative [forever sealed] reveal that Christ Jesus is God, the Creator.

[That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. John 1:9

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. John 1:10

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:11

The very people He took out for Himself as seen in the OT, a peculiar and chosen nation.
JESUS also said, something very important to understand...

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins. - John 8:24

The words [he] are not present. JESUS actually said, “if ye believe not that I AM...”. This text nowhere mentions "Christ" (and it will not be found in the whole of John 8), for the whole passage in John 8 Jesus is making His declaration of being equal to the nature of GOD the FATHER. They even questioned Him on this to be sure in what HE was saying, "whom makest thou thyself" (John 8:53).

If Jesus was merely saying He was the Christ why then would they attempt to stone Him then and there?

All Israel was looking for the Messiah.

Therefore, Jesus was claiming ever so much more than mere pre-existance, He claimed to be equal to GOD (John 10:33; "For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.").

Just as if I said (an imperfect example), I am the son of my Father, it means I am claiming equality to being Human! If (since), according to the texts, Jesus is God (the Son), then this text is crucial. Read it carefully, ponder it.

Continuing from the previous post somewhat, on the nature of Jesus and the forgiving of sins. This directly deals with Blasphemy.

Blasphemy in scripture is very specific. 1. Claiming to be God; 2. Claiming the perogatives of God - ie claiming to forgive sins. Jesus claims both. In fact, the very antichrist (that system that is alive and well even unto this day) claims both.

If Jesus Christ is not God [YHWH; Jehovah] the Son, it is then that we have no Mediator between Man and God, for all we would have then is a mere man which cannot reach unto God. This position cannot be reversed. God Himself has bridged the Gap, and the person of the SON became a man and shed HIS blood for us.

HE has a nature totally GOD and now totally of man – our kinsman redeemer.

Additional texts on the Godhead:

Godhead:

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; - Col 2:2

In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. - Col 2:3

"...mystery of God...", "...and of the Father...", "...and of Christ...", that is 3 Persons, "in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.", of the Godhead. God the Holy Spirit, Father and Son.

In Revelation 14, we see GOD the CREATOR CHRIST JESUS being referenced...

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. - Revelation 14:7

(Now consider directly see Exodus 20:8-11; Genesis 2:2-3, John 1:1-3, 17:5, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 2:9, etc.)

Christ Jesus is the one who gave those Ten Commandments upon Mt. Sinai, John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Daniel 9:4, etc.


Question: Who walks among us?

And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people. - Leviticus 26:12

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. - Revelation 21:3

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:20

For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel [will be] your rereward. Isaiah 52:12

Question: Who is our Rest?


Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28

And he said, My presence shall go [with thee], and I will give thee rest. Exodus 33:14

God is love. He loves you, will you not accept the Son? To not accept the Son as God is to not accept the Father.

That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. - John 5:23

Honour the Son in all things, even as we Honour the Father... this includes worship due to God alone. We worship the Son, even as, we worship the Father.

JESUS is stated as saying in the Gospel of John:

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. John 3:31

Question: Who hath descended? to then Ascend up far above all?

Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. - Psalms 24:7

Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift [them] up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. Psalms 24:9

Who is the "King of Glory"? What is His name? Where did He come from to enter into the Gates of the Heavenly City?

Paul says of Christ Jesus who hath ascended:

Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: Ephesians 1:21

More on the Gospel of John...

I AM... Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58

eipen autoiV o ihsouV amhn amhn legw umin prin abraam genesqai egw eimi John 8:58; Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus

JESUS does not say, "I was...", simply indicating "pre-existence", but rather He says, "I AM", indicating so much more than "pre-existence", rather stating HE has always had "eternal existence", being always "with the FATHER". JESUS uses the the past tense [aorist] when speaking of Abraham ("Abraham was"), but when speaking of HIMSELF, HE speaks using the present tense ("I AM") and not the imperfect tense.

The Prophet Isaiah knew who was to come:

The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3

Isaiah 40:3 קול קורא במדבר פנו דרך יהוה ישׁרו בערבה מסלה לאלהינו׃

The word for "LORD" in Isaiah 40:3 is the Hebrew Tetragrammaton "יְהֹוָה", "YHWH/YHVH" or Jehovah...and directly quoted 4 times in the NT:

For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Matthew 3:3

The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Mark 1:3

As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Luke 3:4

He said, I [am] the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. John 1:23

Whose way was to be prepared in Isaiah? It is the LORD [YHVH/YHWH]. Who was it that Created and formed all things?

The sea [is] his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry [land]. Psalms 95:5

I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. Isaiah 45:12

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else. Isaiah 45:18
 
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...Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
son of man, that thou visitest him?

Heb 2:7
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Heb 2:8
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, ...

Hebrews, like the Gospel of John is really not the place to demote Jesus Christ, for the whole point of the Book of Hebrews is to establish the supremacy of Christ over all else, over Moses, over Angels, over types and shadows, etc.

JESUS divinity [being God] is compared to Melchizedek, who was, "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually." [Hebrews 7:3]

For every house is builded by some [man]; but he that built all things [is] God. Hebrews 3:4

Indeed, "a body" was prepared:

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Hebrews 10:5

Let us consider something awe inspiring...

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Philippians 2:7

Ask yourself why He has so done this? I ask, since it is obvious that He has now submitted to the Father, "What was His position and form before He 'humbled Himself' and "took the form of a servant'? Please consider this question. From what position has He 'humbled Himself' to take such a position as "servant"? We cannot say 'angel' (speaking of the created heavenly beings, though the word means so much more than this) for an angel is already/automatically a servant and nor can He be a created being of any other. The text also reads, 'He took not on the Nature of Angels' (Hebrews 2:16). Any being that is created is already a servant of God and amenable to His Law. In fact, no created being could ever have been the substitute for man.

This is extremely important to understand when it comes to the Everlasting Gospel.

I, [even] I, [am] he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. Isaiah 43:25

25. ἐγώ εἰμι ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἐξαλείφων τὰς ἀνομίας σου καὶ οὐ μὴ μνησθήσομαι

In the Greek LXX this passage reveals who forgives sins, it is the "egw eimi egw eimi", the I AM, the very same in John 8:58. See also Jeremiah 50:20 and Isaiah 1:8-9

The Jews knew exactly what JESUS stated. HE has power to forgive sins because HE is the I AM, YHWH the SON. Consider what is said in Acts, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge..." [Acts 7:60].

JESUS did not say that HE was "a truth", but rather "the TRUTH" [definite article].

JESUS is called over and over again, "the ROCK, CHIEF and PRECIOUS CORNERSTONE, A STONE, A LIVING STONE, A TRIED STONE, A STONE OF STUMBLING, HEAD OF THE CORNER, SURE FOUNDATION..."

GOD is the ROCK; Deuteronomy 32:4,15,18,30; 2 Samuel 23:3; Psalms 42:9, 94:22, etc..

For who [is] God, save the LORD? and who [is] a rock, save our God? 2 Samuel 22:32 [see also Psalms 18:31]

There are no other ROCK's other than the LORD GOD... FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT.

And they remembered that God [was] their rock, and the high God their redeemer. Psalms 78:35

Consider that the Book of Hebrews declares the work of Christ Jesus in the Heavenly Sanctuary.


A question to any:

And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire? - Zechariah 3:2

How many LORD's are in that verse? And I am not merely asking how times the word itself appears... I am asking how many actual LORD's are in that verse... Look closely.
 
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...Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is

Again, the letters of Paul are not the place to demote Jesus Christ, for those texts [quoted] are classic Pauline Tri-in-Unity texts...

Ephesians 4:4-6...


[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Ephesians 4:4

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:5

One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:6

Even as Paul elsewhere proclaims God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit:

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Colossians 2:2

In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Colossians 2:3



Question: Who raised Jesus from the Dead?:

GOD raised CHRIST JESUS, "The LORD our God [FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT, 3 persons] [is] one [Unity in Purpose] LORD": Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Colossians 2:12 and Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Peter 1:21 and And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. 1 Corinthians 6:14 and Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Acts 2:24 and And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. Acts 3:15 and God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Acts 13:33 and Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Hebrews 13:20

So JESUS [GOD the SON] did: Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. John 2:19 and No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:18

So GOD the FATHER did: Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], Ephesians 1:20 and Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4 and Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; ) Galatians 1:1 and And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. 1 Thessalonians 1:10

So GOD the HOLY SPIRIT did: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:11 and For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1 Peter 3:18
 
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Hebrews, like the Gospel of John is really not the place to demote Jesus Christ, for the whole point of the Book of Hebrews is to establish the supremacy of Christ over all else, over Moses, over Angels, over types and shadows, etc.
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Philippians 2:7

1Co 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Sorry, but the book of Hebrews is an exhortation to not drift away or to crucify Christ all over again and to show that Christ was no better than anyone and that we are to serve one another equally and to run the race and is silent on Baptism and the Eucharist.
1Pe 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
In the Greek LXX this passage reveals who forgives sins, it is the "egw eimi egw eimi", the I AM, the very same in John 8:58. See also Jeremiah 50:20 and Isaiah 1:8-9
The day that Abraham saw was a belief in the resurrection.
Joh 8:56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he sawit,and was glad.
And they remembered that God [was] their rock, and the high God their redeemer. Psalms 78:35
And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire? - Zechariah 3:2 How many LORD's are in that verse? And I am not merely asking how times the word itself appears... I am asking how many actual LORD's are in that verse... Look closely.
None, the word is Jehovah! And the angel is an adversary who is protesting to Joshua.

Zec 3:2 And Jehovah said unto the adversary, Jehovah
rebukes thee, adversary; even Jehovah that hath chosen Jerusalem rebukes thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
6 And the angel of Jehovah protested unto Joshua, saying,

Psa 78:31
The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.
ויזכרו כי-אלהים צורם ואל עליון גאלם 35 And they remembered that God was the rock, and the preeminent God their redeemer.

Is 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
 
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...The day that Abraham saw was a belief in the resurrection.

Joh 8:56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he sawit,and was glad. ...

Let us speak about Abraham for a moment...

For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, Hebrews 6:13

Did JESUS not know?

Let us look at the Promise to Abraham, for where is the book of Hebrews referring to? Who came down? Who spake with Abraham? Who hath seen the Father according to John? None, so let us look at this person who "could swear by no greater" and so "sware by Himself".

The "Three Men" of Genesis 18 and 19.

"And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground," [Genesis 18:2]

From scripture we know that these
"three men" were no ordinary 'men'.

Without getting into all of the details from the scripture
[for the moment, but if needed...], we can immediately see from the context that these "three men" came down from Heaven. How do we know? By the very texts themselves:

Two of the "three men" were "two angels"
[Hebrew: shĕnayim Mal'ak, and the Greek LXX, "δύο ἄγγελοι"] [and no, not one of the "three men" 'took on' 'human flesh and blood', not even for a single moment, and to think so is very dangerous to the Gospel, but that is another study altogether, and if interested, please ask]:

"And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing [them] rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;" [Genesis 19:1]
[see also vs 19:15]

Since two of the
"three men" were "two angels", then who was the third? the UNCREATED, ETERNAL CREATOR GOD the SON HIMSELF, "the LORD" aka JESUS/MICHAEL [see http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthrea...=1#post1981026 ]

How do we know it was
"the LORD" [YHVH/YHWH; JEHOVA, etc] "יְהֹוָה" [this was none other than JESUS], since "not that any man hath seen the Father" [John 6:46;p] ? And so, again, by the text itself, "line upon line"...

"And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;" [Genesis 18:1]

"And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?" [Genesis 18:13]

"Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son." [Genesis 18:14]

"And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;" [Genesis 18:17]

"And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;" [Genesis 18:20]

"And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD." [Genesis 18:22]

"That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" [Genesis 18:25]

"And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes." [Genesis 18:26]

"And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place." [Genesis 18:33]

"For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it." [Genesis 19:13]

"And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:" [Genesis 19:27]

GOD,
"the LORD" YHWH/YHVH/JEHOVA the SON - JESUS descended to see Sodom and Gomorrah [as HE had in other cases, Tower of Babel, Jacob/Israel, Mt. Sinai, Joshua, Manoah, etc], not that HE did not already know, but for the sake of others... to make HIS judgments known...

How do we know it was not just JESUS speaking for the LORD... Abraham stands before HIM and says of himself,
"dust and ashes" [vs 27], but of this person he [Abraham] stands before, "the Judge of all the earth" [vs 25].

Additionally we can see where GOD, the SON and the FATHER are mentioned in a single verse,
"the LORD" JESUS standing on earth and raining "brimstone and fire" "from" "the LORD" the FATHER "out of Heaven"...:

"Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;" [Genesis 19:24]

Let us look at who Descended...

Who came down? Who hath Descended?

And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. Genesis 11:5

Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. Genesis 11:7

And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. Exodus 3:8

And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. Exodus 19:8

And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses [up] to the top of the mount; and Moses went up. Exodus 19:20

And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the cloudy pillar descended, and stood [at] the door of the tabernacle, and [the LORD] talked with Moses. Exodus 33:9

And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. Exodus 34:5

And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that [was] upon him, and gave [it] unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, [that], when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease. Numbers 11:25

And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood [in] the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth. Numbers 12:5

He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness [was] under his feet. 2 Samuel 22:10

He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness [was] under his feet. Psalms 18:9

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell? Proverbs 30:4

I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt. Acts 7:34

Who was in that Pillar Of Cloud and Of Fire?

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthrea...=1#post1957312


Who hath "appeared"?

And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. Genesis 12:7

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 17:1

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; Genesis 18:1

And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of: Genesis 26:2

And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I [am] the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I [am] with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake. Genesis 26:24

And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother. Genesis 35:1

And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother. Genesis 35:7

And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. Genesis 35:9

And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me, Genesis 48:3

Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and [seen] that which is done to you in Egypt: Exodus 3:16

What shall the unbelievers says?

And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. Exodus 4:1

...to be continued...
 
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... they remembered that God was the rock, and the preeminent God their redeemer.

Is 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

More from previous...

That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee. Exodus 4:5

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Exodus 6:3

And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud. Exodus 16:10

And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of the congregation, and came out, and blessed the people: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto all the people. Leviticus 9:23

But all the congregation bade stone them with stones. And the glory of the LORD appeared in the tabernacle of the congregation before all the children of Israel. Numbers 14:10

And Korah gathered all the congregation against them unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto all the congregation. Numbers 16:19

And it came to pass, when the congregation was gathered against Moses and against Aaron, that they looked toward the tabernacle of the congregation: and, behold, the cloud covered it, and the glory of the LORD appeared. Numbers 16:42

And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them. Numbers 20:6

And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle. Deuteronomy 31:15

And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD. 1 Samuel 3:21

In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee. 1 Kings 3:5

That the LORD appeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon. 1 Kings 9:2

And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, 1 Kings 11:9

Then Solomon began to build the house of the LORD at Jerusalem in mount Moriah, where [the LORD] appeared unto David his father, in the place that David had prepared in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. 2 Chronicles 3:1

And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice. 2 Chronicles 7:12

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, [saying], Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3

And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, Acts 7:2

Whom did they see?

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Genesis 32:30

And they saw the God of Israel: and [there was] under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in [his] clearness. Exodus 24:10

And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. Judges 13:22

Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and [on] his left. 2 Chronicles 18:18

In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Isaiah 6:1

Who was walking in the Garden?

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. Genesis 3:8

It was Jesus...

Who is with us?

And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I [am] the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I [am] with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake. Genesis 26:24

And, behold, I [am] with thee, and will keep thee in all [places] whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done [that] which I have spoken to thee of. Genesis 28:15

And the LORD said unto Jacob, Return unto the land of thy fathers, and to thy kindred; and I will be with thee Genesis 31:3

I will go down with thee into Egypt; and I will also surely bring thee up [again]: and Joseph shall put his hand upon thine eyes. Genesis 46:4

And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this [shall be] a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. Exodus 3:12

Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he [it is] that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. Deuteronomy 31:6

There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, [so] I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. Joshua 1:5

...

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:20

For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city. Acts 18:10

Notice the context that Paul quotes from the OT and to whom he directly equates it with...

[Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. Hebrews 13:5

So that we may boldly say, The Lord [is] my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. Hebrews 13:6

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8


Look at Isaiah 46:

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, - Isaiah 46:9

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:10

Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am [he]. John 13:19

Again the [he] is absent from the greek. JESUS is the I AM.

The Commandments of GOD, who gave them?:

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:6

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments. Deuteronomy 5:10

JESUS gave them.

Look also closer at the 4th Commandment:


For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Revelation 14:7

Who created? Again...

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. John 1:10
 
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... Is there a God besides me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Question: Who made Adam [the first man] and in whose image was He made?

So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:27

Notice, that God [Elohim - the plural form word] created man "in his [own] image" that is to say "in the image of God". Man [Adam] was not created in the likeness of any other but God, and therefore no other created beings are involved in creating the 'creation'. Think about what that means.

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Genesis 2:8

This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Genesis 5:1

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Genesis 9:6


Who made Eve [the first woman]?

And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. Genesis 2:18

And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. Genesis 2:22


In the NWT [for Jehovah's Witnesses] it clearly says that the "LORD God" who made these [Adam/Eve - Man] was "Jehovah God" [NWT; Genesis 2:7-8, 18,22] The Hebrew text [Tr.] bears this out as well: "YHVH 'aLHYM" - Hebrew Text Notice again that the "Elohim" is plural while associated with the singular name, YHVH.

I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. Isaiah 45:12

For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. Isaiah 66:2

I have made the earth, the man and the beast that [are] upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me. Jeremiah 27:5

For every house is builded by some [man]; but he that built all things [is] God. Hebrews 3:4

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. John 1:10

He came unto his own
, and his own received him not. John 1:11

The sea [is] his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry [land]. Psalms 95:5

O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. Psalms 95:6

For he [is] our God; and we [are] the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, Psalms 95:7


And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. John 10:16

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: John 10:27

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

Won't you let Christ in, He is knocking, knocking, knocking, and calling out after you... can you not hear His voice calling, "open...". He wants to dine and sup with you...

Open the Door, believe in Him, JESUS CHRIST The Great I AM... He will never leave nor forsake you... and will uphold you in His Almighty and Saving arms...

He descended for you...
 
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he-man

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Question: Who made Adam [the first man] and in whose image was He made?

So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:27
ויברא אלהים את-האדם בצלמו בצלם אלהים ברא אתו זכר ונקבה ברא אתם
Gen 1:27 So God created man in His image, in the image of God He created male and He created female for him.

1:1 In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word.
2 The same was in the beginning with god.
3 All things were made by it, and without it, was made no thing, that made was.
Faithfully translated by:
William Tyndle and friends.
My turn, can you answer just this one scripture and explain why God would be in subjection to Himself and put all things under Himself if they were already there?


1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Then you had better listen to the scriptures I gave you and not to the Philosophy of men.
P.S. No proselytizing allowed on this forum.
 
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[/color][/color]ויברא אלהים את-האדם בצלמו בצלם אלהים ברא אתו זכר ונקבה ברא אתם [/b]
Gen 1:27 So God created man in His image, in the image of God He created male and He created female for him.

1:1 In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word.
2 The same was in the beginning with god.
3 All things were made by it, and without it, was made no thing, that made was.
Faithfully translated by:
William Tyndle and friends.
My turn, can you answer just this one scripture and explain why God would be in subjection to Himself and put all things under Himself if they were already there?

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Then you had better listen to the scriptures I gave you and not to the Philosophy of men.
P.S. No proselytizing allowed on this forum.

Thank you for the first point, indeed Jesus is the Word who is God and mankind was made in His Image, since it was He [Jesus] that formed man with His own hands, even as all of scripture [which was previously cited], states, and He was ever eternally with God the Father, thus able to witness and testify of things eternal, hence He is the True Witness.

As to the question... Sure. Christ Jesus is now and forever a glorified immortal man. God who became man. Humbled Himself. Took the form of a servant to save man, to be our mediator, advocate between finite [man] and infinite [God].

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Philippians 2:5

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:6

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Philippians 2:7

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Philippians 2:8

The relationship between Father and Son [those two persons] is infinitely closer than the relationship between Man [husband] and Woman [wife].

I and [my] Father are one. John 10:30

"...one, as we [are]." John 17:11;p

"...as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee..." John 17:21;p

"...as we are one." John 17:22;p


Christ Jesus gave us the example in humankind, in the relationship union of the marriage covenant between Husband [human] and wife [human], which become "one" [unity] flesh, but are still two persons, with God amidst them both. It is the very example of love. Ephesians 5 helps to clarify this.

Remember, that Christ Jesus is the "Second Adam", the Head of all men, and therefore will subject himself to the Father, since He represents the Head of all mankind, but Christ Jesus is still also YHVH the Son.

"...the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne..." Revelation 7:17;p

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. Revelation 22:1


But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

The Father has born witness of the Son, and the Holy Spirit bears witness in the word, and the Son hath also testified of Himself - in the mouth of two or three witnesses... the True Witnesses [Jesus is God; YHVH the Son].

Every Apostle and Disciple, and yea the whole Bible completely Agree on who JESUS is, that HE is GOD. John says so, Paul says so, Thomas says so [John 20:28, compare to Psalms 35:23 in the Greek], Stephen says so, the Psalms say so, the Prophets say so, and JESUS says so, the HOLY SPIRIT says so, and the FATHER says so:

in Psalms 45:6 and Hebrews 1:8 it is given, so that we may know.

Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom [is] a right sceptre. - Psalms 45:6

But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. - Hebrews 1:8

God the Father, addressing God the Son, signified in writing through David and Paul by God the Holy Spirit (the Author of Scripture).

Here is the TR. Greek:

o qronos sou o qeos eis ton aiwna tou aiwnos rabdos euquthtos h rabdos ths basileias sou - Psalms 44:7 LXX (same as Psalms 45:6 KJV)

proV de ton uion o qronoV sou o qeoV eiV ton aiwna tou aiwnoV rabdos euquthtos h rabdoV thV basileiaV sou - Hebrews 1:8

Hebrews 1:8 is directly quoting the Psalms. "sou o theos" is "O God", and this said, "unto the Son" by the Father, signified in scripture by God the Holy Spirit.

Consider also the context in Psalms 45, etc



As for the latter comment, I have a far and exceeding greater commandment from Christ Jesus, who is God [He whom we ought to obey; Acts 5:29], than that which is given by tradition of men [for the rules of men mean nothing when they break the commandments of God]:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matthew 28:19

...and yet so many will say that the Holy Spirit hath no name... they need to reconsider greatly...

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:20

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15.

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Revelation 14:6

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. Revelation 14:7

The whole world will be filled with the doctrine...

Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Acts 5:28
 
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...Then you had better listen ... not to the Philosophy of men. ...

Excellent advice, regarding the "philosophy of men", which is why enormous amounts of scripture were given, which have not been answered, nor addressed, but I do hope at least considered. Eternal Life is at stake...

"Let GOD be true...", Jesus said, "I AM ... the Truth...", and also Christ Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit declares Jesus to be GOD throughout, what then are any, who should then continue to say otherwise, by saying, 'no, he isn't'?

What then is said of GOD and of them who say such? Man becomes the Truth and GOD the... ?

The Holy Spirit...

Nehemiah = "Nĕchemyah" = "נְחֶמְיָה" = "Jehovah comforts" or Jehovah [YHVH/YHWH] is my Comfort[er].

JESUS is our Comforter... and ...

GOD the HOLY SPIRIT ['another Comforter']:

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16

But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7


Peter the Apostle says:

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? Acts 5:3

Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. Acts 5:4


Paul the Apostle says:

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1 Corinthians 12:11

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Colossians 2:2

In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Colossians 2:3

That is 3 persons, GOD [the HOLY SPIRIT], and THE FATHER and THE SON [CHRIST JESUS], "in whom" are "hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge".

Moses wrote in Genesis and Deuteronomy:

Genesis:

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Genesis 1:26

So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:27

"moved" = rachaph = "רָחַף" = "hover, flutter, shake"

Deuteronomy:

[He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he. Deuteronomy 32:4

He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. Deuteronomy 32:10

As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: Deuteronomy 32:11

[So] the LORD alone did lead him, and [there was] no strange god with him. Deuteronomy 32:12

"fluttereth" = rachaph = "רָחַף" = "hover, flutter, shake"

Notice in Genesis 1 that the HOLY SPIRIT "moves" [hovers] upon the waters [HOLY SPIRIT 'walks' upon the waters of the sea]. In Matthew 14:26, it is said of JESUS, "him walking on the sea" [JESUS walks upon the waves of the sea]. In Job 9:8, GOD "treadeth upon the waves of the sea".

Also Job says:

The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. Job 33:4

Who has also spoken?

The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word [was] in my tongue. 2 Samuel 23:2

Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. Acts 8:29

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Romans 8:16

And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Luke 4:1

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:14

And Scripture was given by whom?

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. 1 Peter 1:21

All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

GOD's presence:

Cast me not away fromthy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Psalms 51:11

But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, [and] he fought against them. Isaiah 63:10

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30
 
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Question: Again, Who is the Husband?

Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
Jeremiah 3:14

Surely [as] a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 3:20

GOD gives a human example through the Prophet Hosea...of what HIS Spouse, HIS Wife, had done to GOD... they committed adultery and whoredoms...


The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, [departing] from the LORD. Hosea 1:2

Plead with your mother, plead: for she [is] not my wife, neither [am] I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts; Hosea 2:2

But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 1 Corinthians 6:17

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:2

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Ephesians 5:23

The entire Song Of Songs [Solomon] is one of the Love of GOD [CHRIST] for HIS Bride the Church/people. Consider also Revelation, the City, New Jerusalem, the symbol of God's People. 144,000 numerically given, 144 cubits in the walls, know ye not that you are living stones? [1 Peter 2:5; Revelation 3:12, etc], each of the stones in the walls the very stones upon the Breast of the Great High Priest, CHRIST JESUS, close to HIS heart... there is ever so much more to share upon it...


I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate [woman]. Jeremiah 6:2

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. Revelation 19:7

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 21:2

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. Revelation 21:3

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. Revelation 21:9

HUSBAND yet still further...

For thy Maker [is] thine husband; the LORD of hosts [is] his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. - Isaiah 54:5

Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion. - Jeremiah 3:14

For [as] a young man marrieth a virgin, [so] shall thy sons marry thee: and [as] the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, [so] shall thy God rejoice over thee. - Isaiah 62:5

And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast. - Matthew 9:15

Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. - Matthew 25:1

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. - Matthew 25:5

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. - Matthew 25:10

And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. - Mark 2:19

But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days. - Mark 2:20

And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? - Luke 5:34

But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days. - Luke 5:35

He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. - John 3:29



Consider also... the
"wrath of the LAMB" the "wrath of GOD"...

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Revelation 6:16

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Revelation 14:10

And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. Revelation 16:1
 
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jackmt

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It occurs to me as I read these threads that JWs and Mormons do not put forth what their doctrine of salvation is. And they now claim to be Christians, though they deny Christian doctrine, and from their beginnings they have denied the name and decried Christians as heretics. Do they now claim the differences are too small to matter? Or do they still claim to be the only way to God? What changed? What is the Gospel according to a JW? Specifics please.
 
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he-man

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Thank you for the first point, indeed Jesus is the Word who is God and mankind was made in His Image, since it was He [Jesus] that formed man with His own hands, even as all of scripture [which was previously cited], states, and He was ever eternally with God the Father, thus able to witness and testify of things eternal, hence He is the True Witness.
1:1 In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word. [TYNDALE]
There is no LET US in the Hebrew: ויאמר אלהים נעשה אדם בצלמנו כדמותנו וירדו בדגת הים ובעוף השמים ובבהמה ובכל-הארץ ובכל-הרמש הרמש על-הארץ
Ge 1:26 And God commanded and caused to bring about man in His image, in likeness: to rule over the fish of the sea, and the fowl of the air, and to make the beast, and all the earth, and everything all reptiles all insects upon the earth.
As to the question... Sure. Christ Jesus is now and forever a glorified immortal man. God who became man. Humbled Himself. Took the form of a servant to save man, to be our mediator, advocate between finite [man] and infinite [God].
So your god died and how did he sit at his own right hand?
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Howbeit then that Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Gal 3:20
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Mr 12:36 David himself said the Holy Spirit said, 'The LORD to my Lord, Sit down from out of my right hand, til I bring those enemies of you forward, underneath your feet.— [Psalm 110:1]
Remember, that Christ Jesus is the "Second Adam", the Head of all men, and therefore will subject himself to the Father, since He represents the Head of all mankind, but Christ Jesus is still also YHVH the Son.
How then is it that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Co 15:46
 
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1:1 In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word. [TYNDALE]
There is no LET US in the Hebrew: ויאמר אלהים נעשה אדם בצלמנו כדמותנו וירדו בדגת הים ובעוף השמים ובבהמה ובכל-הארץ ובכל-הרמש הרמש על-הארץ ...

Ineed, thank you again for citing that passage [John 1:1], for Jesus is God who is that Word.

Earlier you had said that the passage was, "Faithfully translated by:
William Tyndle and friends."

Which is a bit ironic, considering that you are attempting to use a translation [in this case the Tyndale Bible] to attempt to undeify Christ Jesus, when in fact, Tyndale [and 'friends'] was 'trinitarian', and he fully believed in the full Deity of Christ Jesus, and taught that Jesus is God [the Son].

'Let us' consider the text again...

Now let us consider the “Us, Our, We” texts:

Elohiym, that is, God, for the connecting passages uses that word in direct connection with "He". "He drove out the man, He placed...Cherubims..." thus, seeing that scripture does differentiate between angels (Cherub(im)/Seraph(im)), who are created (Ezekiel 28:15; Hebrews 1:7), and Elohiym, who being God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit, all present in Genesis), who is Uncreated.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... Genesis 1:26,p


אֱלֹהִים Translit. 'elohiym = Plural of אֱלוֺהַּ Translit. 'elowahh = God (SC) (probably from prolonged for of אֵל Translit. 'el) The exact same word as used in Genesis 1:1, wherein it was God (Plurality and Unity) Created the Heaven and the Earth. It was God alone (with whom did HE take council?) that formed Heaven and Earth. Even the NT: (...men, which are made after the similitude of God. James 3:9) now compare to Genesis 1:26; God in the Greek here is θεός Translit. theos = God (see LXX; Genesis).

See also Isaiah 54:5: For thy Maker (is) thine husband; the LORD of hosts (is) his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5

More: "That the God Who created man was Unity of plurality as is revealed not only in the first chapter of Genesis but in other OT texts as well. In the Hebrew text, the word 'asah (gah-sah'), or Maker, is found in the plural form in many references to God alone.

We find a similar statement in Psalm 149:2, "Let Israel rejoice in his Maker...."; again 'Maker” is actually pluralized here.

See Ecclesiastes 12:1 (Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; Ecc 12:1), wherein the word "Creator" is actually plural in Hebrew.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us... Gen 3:22

... in the Hebrew:

ויאמר יהוה אלהים
הן האדם היה כאחד
ממנו לדעת טוב ורע
ועתה פן־ ישלח ידו
ולקח גם מעץ החיים
ואכל וחי לעלם׃

Which יהוה אלהים, being translit is YHWH Elohiym, and translated as YHWH ((name of the)LORD) Elohiym (God). The words "of" and "the" are not present, and are unneeded [so it is not YHVH [of the] Elohim] as Genesis 4:26 will show; "to call upon the name of the LORD (YHWH)". See also Isaiah 45:3 "YHWH (LORD), ...the Elohiym (God) of Israel"... and see also Zechariah 13:9 "my name,... my people, ...shall say ...YHWH (LORD) Elohiym (God)" If the passages had meant "LORD of the Angels", then the pasage would have read "(YHWH) LORD of HOSTS", 'Hosts' being צָבָא Translit. tsaba'= armies, hosts, of creation, etc. Or it could have said in Greek, "(YHWH) LORD of Sabaoth" 'Sabaoth' being Σαβαώθ translit. Sabaōth (from Hebrew צָבָא Translit. tsaba') = LORD of the Armies, Hosts, Creation.

Go to, let us go down... Genesis 11:7 KJV

הבה נרדה ונבלה שם
שפתם אשר לא ישמעו
איש שפת רעהו׃

From various sources; E-Sword; Blue Letter Bible.org; Genesis 11:7Â[bless and do not curse]&Â[bless and do not curse]11:8 ; Genesis 11 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre ; Genesis Chapter 11 - Parallel Hebrew Old Testament ; watchtower.org

King James Version
11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

[New World Translation - directly from Watchtower.org]
7 Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language.”

[Hebrew - English; from Mechon-Mamre.org]
ז הָבָה, נֵרְדָה, וְנָבְלָה שָׁם, שְׂפָתָם--אֲשֶׁר לֹא יִשְׁמְעוּ, אִישׁ שְׂפַת רֵעֵהוּ.
7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.'

[Martin Luther's]
Wohlauf, laßt uns herniederfahren und dort ihre Sprache verwirren, daß keiner des andern Sprache verstehe! 11:7

[John Wycliffe & John Purvey (Middle English)]
And scheende we there the tunge of hem, that ech man here not the voys of his neiybore. 11:7

[LXX; Septuagint]
Δεῦτε καὶ καταβάντες συγχέωμεν αὐτῶν ἐκεῖ τὴν γλῶσσαν, ἵνα μὴ ἀκούσωσιν ἕκαστος τὴν φωνὴν τοῦ πλησίον. 11:7 [2aor act ptcp mas nom|voc pl]

Latin Vulgate
11:7 venite igitur descendamus et confundamus ibi linguam eorum ut non audiat unusquisque vocem proximi sui

American Standard Version
11:7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another`s speech.

Bible in Basic English
11:7 Come, let us go down and take away the sense of their language, so that they will not be able to make themselves clear to one another.

Darby's English Translation
11:7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another`s speech.

Douay Rheims Bible
11:7 Come ye, therefore, let us go down, and there may not understand one another's speech.

Noah Webster Bible
11:7 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

World English Bible
11:7 Come, let`s go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another`s speech."

Young's Literal Translation
11:7 Give help, let us go down, and mingle there their pronunciation, so that a man doth not understand the pronunciation of his companion.`

In many translations in each instance it is translated: "let us"... and note also that that the word for "confuse/confound" is also in the plural... Compare the previous verse wherein mankind had said, "let us" in Vs 3,4 and then in Vs 5 it reveals that YHWH (LORD) came down, in Judgment, as was in the case several times (Babel, Egypt, Sodom Gomorrah, etc). What mankind said they would do, then what God would do.

(Adonai (Isaiah 6:8), in reference to God, the word itself being Plural, see Isaiah; Adonai YHWH... (plural w/singular name), then see Matthew 28:19, ("in the name (singular) of "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" (Plural)).

... the voice of the Lord, saying...who will go for us?... Isaiah 6:8

אֲדֹנָי Translit. 'Adonay (plural) = LORD, used as Adnoai YHWH in Genesis 15:2,8 etc. Compare the previous verse of Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, (is) the LORD of hosts: the whole earth (is) full of his glory." Isaiah 6:3 Three "Holy" are given...to God, who is YHWH (LORD) of Hosts.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. John 3:11

Nicodemus and Jesus (private conversation between them by Night) talk was about Heavenly things (which disciples did not know)...John 3:12-13 connects John 3:11 in revealing that Jesus came down from Heaven and could speak of the Kingdom of God "we speak" (of the Heavenly), "we do know" (of the Heavenly), "we have seen" (of the Heavenly), "our witness" (of the Heavenly), as HE had been there and came from there (the disciples had not) and would return yet again:

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you (of) heavenly things? - John 3:12

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, (even) the Son of man which is in heaven. - John 3:13

Further witnesses among ther Apostles, a brief look at his text, though there is a great deal more to consider here:

"...the Lord of me and the God of me...", the "me" is Thomas [context].

Let us compare two texts:

23exegerqhti kurie kai prosces th krisei mou o qeos mou kai o kurios mou eis thn dikhn mou [Psalms 34:23 LXX same as Psalms 35:23 KJV; Psalms - Septuagint Psalms 34:23 LXX, same as Psalms 35:23 KJV]

kai apekriqh o qwmaV kai eipen autw o kurioV mou kai o qeoV mou John 20:28 [John 20 - 20:28 Greek Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus]

Do you see these two verses ? What do you see...

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. The "him" is Jesus [context].

That Jesus claimed to be the "Son of God" means He is claiming equality with God the Fathers very Nature, ie His eternal power and Godhead.
 
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...So your god died and how did he sit at his own right hand?

Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Howbeit then that Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Gal 3:20 ...

Deity did not die, only humanity died...

"When Christ was crucified, it was His human nature that died. Deity did not sink and die; that would have been impossible."

Indeed, CHRIST JESUS [GOD the SON], the "Second Adam", is at the right hand of GOD the FATHER.

Indeed, GOD is 'one' [unity].

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: Deuteronomy 6:4

In Galatians, Paul is making sure that this unity [of YHVH] concept is understood to the Galatians. You see, the Gentiles had endless pantheons of gods [devils] who all warred [in their mythology] among each other. Yet YHVH God is not this way. The FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT are "one in nature, in character, in purpose"; in Creation and in Redemption, etc...
 
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he-man said:
...
How then is it that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1Co 15:46

Paul is not speaking of a 'ghostly [gaseous/airy] essence', not an 'incorporeal form of men-shade'. The Bible does not teach 'spirits of the dead' as every pagan religion teaches - an 'immortal soul/spirit'.

He is not here: for he is risen...

The Resurrection:

"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing." [John 20:27]

"And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb." [Luke 24:42]

"And he took [it], and did eat before them." [Luke 24:43]

"Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No." [John 21:5]

"As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread." [John 21:9]

"Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise." [John 21:13]

"This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead." [John 21:14]

"So when they had dined..." [John 21:15;p]

Christians will have bodies even as HE [except for the wounds of HIS which will remain throughout all eternity], in their resurrection:

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept." [1 Cor 15:20]

"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." [1 Cor 15:23]

How was Jesus Resurrected?

Jesus, Himself said, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." [John 14:2]

Did not Jesus "ascend"? Where did He go to? A very real place...

"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also." [John 14:3]

What would happen if we believe that Heaven is a place of non-corporeal gaseous entities or existences, and airy nonthings? We spiritualize away so much.

Satan seeks to make of himself non-believable, something intangible, not-real, and so deceives the whole world, even those in Christian circles, thus destroying the very real punishment of the wicked to come, and also of the very real reward for the overcomers, that "crown of Life" that Jesus will bestow upon those that love and have faith in/of Him, and keep His commandments...

GOD created the Angels as glorious beings, and they do have bodies, as Paul would say, "Celestial bodies", for "GOD giveth it a body as it hath pleased HIM". Just as JESUS now eternally has a "Glorious Body" [Phil 3:21] of a man.

Lucifer/[now satan] was the very "anointed cherub that coverth" [Ezekiel 28:14] and stood directly by the very Throne of GOD in Heaven and GOD had dressed him [Lucifer] in precious stones and metals, "every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created" [Ezekiel 28:13] and Lucifer had once "walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire" in the "Eden the garden of God", upon "the holy mountain of God", being "Mount Zion" of Heaven, which "cannot be removed, [but] abideth forever".

Satan will be brought to "ashes" and "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more." [Ezkiel 28:19] and "The merchants among the people shall hiss at thee; thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt be] any more." [Ezekiel 27:36]

Why does any of this matter?

It is because there is a great deception and distortion about the reality of Heaven, the very "Paradise" of God, Heaven, and the "reward"!

Where is the "Tree of Life"?

It is in Heaven, in the midst of the city and Paradise of God.

What is upon it?

"Fruit" and "Leaves". [Rev 22:2]

Where is the "Pure River of Water of Life"?

It is in Heaven. [Rev 22:1]

And most of all, Satan would love to destroy the Heavenly Sanctuary, of which Christ Jesus even now ministers above, even now in the Most Holy, before the Ark of His Testament... for if Satan can destroy that, hide that great work, remove faith in Jesus as our Great High Priest and Advocate and Mediator, then he destroys a great deal more...

There is even the "Temple of GOD", that "True Tabernacle which the LORD pitched and not man" [Heb 8:2] and the "ARK of HIS Testament" in Heaven [Rev 11:19], which even Angels minister there along with JESUS CHRIST, "our great High Priest".

Heaven ["third heaven" [2 Cor 12:2]] is a real place, as real as Mt. Horeb/Sinai on earth.

Most of modern Christianity and the world has greatly been led into the deception of satan on this very important subject and have "spiritualized" it away.

Truth is being slowly erased because many have allowed satan to deceive them ... phantomized ... incorporealized ... turned it into fables ... and thus stealing away the reality of the reward...

We shall eat from that Tree of Life and drink from that pure river of water of Life...

The Angels, including Satan himself, are not "incorporeal" phantoms and Satan is a very, very real and tangible being, but that means so is Heaven very real and tangible!

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." [Mat 22:30]

"For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven." [Mark 12:25]

"But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:" [Luke 20:35]

"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." [Luke 20:36]

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." [1 Cor 15:49]

"And [though] after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God:" [Job 19:26]

Look at the resurrected Christ Jesus, even as John saw...

Look at Revelation [the revealing] of JESUS CHRIST, and HIS form:

"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle." [Rev 1:13]

"His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;" [Rev 1:14]

"And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." [Rev 1:15]

"And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength." [Rev 1:16]

"These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;" [Rev 2:1]

"These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;" [Rev 2:18]

And so Christians are to have bodies even as HE [except for the wounds of HIS which will remain throughout all eternity], in their resurrection:

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept." [1 Cor 15:20]

"But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." [1 Cor 15:23]

Thus the "Third Heaven", is the place where GOD HIMSELF dwells among the "cherubim and seraphim", "elders" and "creatures", in the ETERNAL CITY OF GOD, "a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God." and the gates were "lifted up" at the Triumphal entry of JESUS CHRIST [the "King of GLORY"] when HE ascended "up" to that "place" which HE has gone to "prepare" for us.

JESUS CHRIST did not fade into the 'aether'. HE went to a real, place, called Heaven [3rd]. HE is coming again to take us back to that place and to that real City of Heaven, "New Jerusalem". This real city is described with all manner of Jewels, having "foundations", precious stones, pearls, waters, trees, fruits, beings, gates, etc. Real and Tangible.

The "doctrine" and even "deeds" of the "Nicolaitans", which GOD "hates" [Rev 2:6,15], discards all of that, and turns it into a lie, by spiritualizing it all away into phantoms, aether, a figment of dreams, surreal mists and separating what one does in this life with an aetheral life afterward, a shedding of the 'flesh'; a dangerous and platonic philosophy.

However, Paul says that we are not looking to be "unclothed" [2 Cor 5:4], but rather, "earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven" [2 Cor 5:2] and "so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked." [2 Cor 5:3] and "clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life." [2 Cor 5:4]

We are instead going to wear "Crown(s) of Life" which CHRIST JESUS will give to us HIMSELF, and HE HIMSELF wears many crowns. We are going to wear "white raiment" and be given "harps" and "palms", etc. We will be able to Eat and Drink from the Tree and River of Life...

All of that takes place in Heaven, and then after the 1000 years, back to earth [3rd Advent] for more events, and finally a New Heaven and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The Angels are not "incorporeal" though they are normally "invisible" and are called [good] "ministering spirits" [Psalms 104:4; Heb 1:7,14] and [fallen/wicked] "evil spirits" [Luke 7:21, 8:2; Acts 19:12-13] and "unclean spirits" [Mat 10:1; Mark 1:27, 3:11, 5:13, 6:7; Luke 4:36, 6:18; Acts 5:16, 8:7; Rev 16:13] of which we are said to "...wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]." [Eph 6:12;p].

Those texts are true and correct, as the Angels themsleves do not have the "flesh and blood" of men, but rather "celestial bodies" [1 Cori 15:40], that is an "heavenly" [Heb 11:16; 1 Cor 15:48-49], while we currently have "bodies terrestrial" [1 Cor 15:40], and "of the earth, earthy" [1 Cor 15:57].

"But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body." [1 Cor 15:38]

"All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds." [1 Cor 15:39]

"[There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another." [1 Cor 15:40]

Angels have bodies like unto men, but are different "kind" of creature [and cannot ever procreate with men].

Now consider, that GOD THE FATHER HIMSELF has a Throne that HE [and CHRIST] sits upon... for the FATHER, like the SON has a "form" [Daniel 3:25], the very "form of God" [Phil 2:6].

"I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire." [Daniel 7:9]

"That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven." [Mat 10:18]

"And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." [Ex 33:23]

What then of this "Spiritual Body"...

The Context of 1 Corinthians 15 reveals that it is speaking of the Resurrection and the "Body" of it.

Paul reveals the differences between the body now and as it shall be, like as unto the angels, in the resurrection:

"But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" [1 Cor 15:35]

"[Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:" [1 Cor 15:36]

"And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:" [1 Cor 15:37]

"It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:" [1 Cor 15:43]

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." [1 Cor 15:44]

σῶμα sōma : "1) the body both of men or animals; ... that which casts a shadow as distinguished from the shadow itself" [Strong's]

"But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body." [1 Cor 15:38]

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit." [1 Cor 15:45]

"Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." [1 Cor 15:46]

"The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven." [1 Cor 15:47]

"As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly." [1 Cor 15:48]

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." [1 Cor 15:49]

Again see Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25 and Luke 20:35-36.

JESUS CHRIST was raised, we too shall be like HIM, even being "as the angels in Heaven".

"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." [1 Cor 15:54]

The FATHER eternally "gave" [not loaned] the SON... JESUS is forever glorified man, the Second Adam, the head of all mankind.
 
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