Jehovah or Yahweh?

Archie the Preacher

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FerventDisciple said:
1: Which is the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton, Jehovah or Yahweh?
No one knows.

If I recall correctly, the Hebrew (ancient) language did not have a 'J' sound, only a 'Y' sound. So "Jehovah" is a modernized, probably Anglicized version.

There were no 'vowel' sounds which were written in the text of ancient Hebrew. There are 'vowel pointings' (markings) now. However they were added long after the writing of the Torah, the five books of Moses.

Even now, the tetragrammaton is shown in text as the four Hebrew letters 'Y H W H', but the vowel pointings are typically the pointings (sounds and order) for the word 'adoni', "My Lord" in English. The word is therefore pronounced as 'My Lord' in order NOT to violate the Commandment about using the Lord's name in vain.

Consequently, there is NO way to determine from extant text the actual pronunciation of the word in question.

The only people who might know are serious Hebrew scholars - Rabbis - who are part of the oral tradition. I doubt any of them will reveal the actual name in any sort of casual manner. I further doubt any person who might be 'casual' enough to reveal the name would also past the 'background check' in order to be admitted to the circles that would know the name.

Probably, we are very close to the actual pronunciation. But knowing for sure is a different matter.

In practical terms, I use the phrase 'My Lord and Father' in prayer and get answers. So I am not all that worked up over knowing the 'real pronunciation'. When we get to be with Him, we will know.

FerventDisciple said:
2: How should the tetragrammaton be rendered in the text of our english bible translations? Jehovah? Yahweh? LORD? YHWH?
The Hebrew priests and scribes used the term 'Lord' (adon) or more commonly 'my Lord' (adoni) as a substitute. I see no reason to change that tradition.
 
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MoreCoffee

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1: Which is the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton, Jehovah or Yahweh?

2: How should the tetragrammaton be rendered in the text of our english bible translations? Jehovah? Yahweh? LORD? YHWH?

YHWH is usually translated as "The LORD" and that works well, it is two syllables just like "Yahweh" so in poems and songs the two are interchangeable (except if you rhyme with the lord or with yahweh). Jehovah is far from accurate but it is widely used in English and Jehovah's witnesses are very active promoters of "Jehovah".

With so many bibles available as text files it is easy to convert instances of "the LORD" to "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" by means of a find and replace action. So if you are keen to have one or other of the spellings in your bible then you can use a text editor and do the find/replace and see how it works for you.
 
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Jehovah is just a mis-pronounciation of the Tetragrammaton using the vowels of 'adonai'. Moreover, the J pronounciation in English is similar to French instead of the German J which is like a Y.

Yahweh is our best guess as to how it was originally pronounced, but we do not know for sure because vowel pointing didn't start until the Masoretics, and the pronounciation of the tetragrammaton is basically lost.

how it should be in English translations is really between a few options: LORD, YHWH, or Yahweh but I think most go with LORD.
 
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Alfred Persson

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1: Which is the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton, Jehovah or Yahweh?

2: How should the tetragrammaton be rendered in the text of our english bible translations? Jehovah? Yahweh? LORD? YHWH?

Personally, I prefer YHWH, no pronunciation intended.



YAHWEH (DEITY) [Heb K yhwh (יהוה)]. The name of God in the OT. When it stands alone, and with prefixed prepositions or the conjunction wa-, “and,” the name is always written with the four Hebrew letters yod, he, waw, he, and is for that reason called the Tetragrammaton. In this form the name appears more than 6000 times in the OT. (Variation in the Masoretic mss makes it difficult to establish the number of occurrences exactly.) Shorter forms of the divine name occur in personal names. At the beginning of names the form is yĕhô- or the contracted form yô-; at the end of names, -yāhû or -yāh.

A. Pronunciation
The pronunciation of yhwh as Yahweh is a scholarly guess. Hebrew biblical mss were principally consonantal in spelling until well into the current era. The pronunciation of words was transmitted in a separate oral tradition. See MASORETIC TEXT. The Tetragrammaton was not pronounced at all, the word ʾădonāy, “my Lord,” being pronounced in its place; ʾelōhı̂m, “God,” was substituted in cases of the combination ʾădonāy yhwh (305 times; e.g., Gen 15:2). (This sort of reading in MT is called a qere perpetuum.) Though the consonants remained, the original pronunciation was eventually lost. When the Jewish scholars (called Masoretes) added vowel signs to biblical mss some time before the 10th century A.D., the Tetragrammaton was punctuated with the vowels of the word “Adonai” or “Elohim” to indicate that the reader should read “Lord” or “God” instead of accidentally pronouncing the sacred name (TDOT 5: 501–02).

The form “Jehovah” results from reading the consonants of the Tetragrammaton with the vowels of the surrogate word Adonai. The dissemination of this form is usually traced to Petrus Galatinus, confessor to Pope Leo X, who in 1518 A.D. transliterated the four Hebrew letters with the Latin letters jhvh together with the vowels of Adonai, producing the artificial form “Jehovah.” (This confused usage may, however, have begun as early as 1100 A.D.; note KB, 369). While the hybrid form Jehovah has met much resistance, and is universally regarded as an ungrammatical aberration, it nonetheless passed from Latin into English and other European languages and has been hallowed by usage in hymns and the ASV; it is used only a few times in KJV and not at all in RSV.

The generally acknowledged vocalization “Yahweh” is a reconstruction that draws on several lines of evidence. The longer of the two reduced suffixing forms of the divine name, yāh and yāhû, indicates that the name probably had the phonetic shape /yahw-/ with a final vowel. The vowel is supplied on the basis of the observation that the name derives from a verbal root hwy, which would require the final vowel /ē/; this inference is confirmed by the element yahwı̄ occurring in names in the Amorite language (see TDOT 5: 512; the relevance of the Amorite names is challenged by Knauf 1984: 467). In the Aramaic letters from Elephantine in Egypt (ca. 400 B.C.; ANET, 491–92), the divine name occurs in the spelling yhw, probably with the vocalization /yahû/ (TDOT 5: 505). Instances of the divine name written in Greek letters, such as Iao (equivalent to “Yaho”), Iabe (known to the Samaritans, Theodoret [4th century A.D.], and Epiphanius), Iaoue, Iaouai (Clement of Alexandria [3d century]), and Iae also favor the form “Yahweh” (NWDB, 453).

Thompson, H. O. (1992). Yahweh (Deity). In D. N. Freedman (Ed.), The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (Vol. 6, p. 1011). New York: Doubleday.
 
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childofdust

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Hey, there's some great responses here!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

FervantDisciple, I hope you are pleased. :cool:

I'll just add a few things...

The form of the verb that is proposed by scholars as the basis for the pronunciation "Yahweh" (a third-person singular imperfect in the Hiphil form meaning "he will cause to be") does not exist in Hebrew. There is no attested form of it anywhere. Nada. None. Unless, of course, the Tetragrammaton alone is that form. The problem with saying that the divine name is, itself, that evidence, however, is that it begs the question. If the only real evidence of what I say is what I say the evidence is, then I'm using circular logic and I really haven't established anything.

There is a lot of assumption behind it all... like the fact that the divine name is actually a form of a verb. Most names are not a form of a verb. They might include a verb, but most names are not simply verbs. A noun might be a name, but a verb...not so much. The question few people seem to ask is: why should the divine name be a verb instead of something else? The usual answer: because they like it that way. Again...not very compelling.

Also...

There are many problems when it comes to using Greek transliterations (like those referenced in the Anchor Bible Dictionary article). I will only mention a few...

1. The ancient Hebrew language included consonants that did not exist in Greek. And, in fact, the way consonants were spoken in ancient Hebrew was not the same way they were typically spoken in Greek either. Thus, it is imperative to understand that any transcription in Greek is not going to mimic the Hebrew pronunciation precisely.

2. One cannot assume accurate phonetic transcriptions. It's not like there was some universal rule used by ancient writers about how, exactly, everyone should represent certain sounds. And, in fact, Greek transcriptions of ancient Hebrew are quite varied in how they think it should sound. So which transcription is more correct? How can we know?

I've spent some time--not a lot--looking at ancient Hebrew texts written in the BABYLONIAN pronunciation. That is a different pronunciation than what was established by the Masoretic scribes. And, in fact, the Babylonian pronunciation predates the Masoretic pronunciation. It may be the case that the pronunciation of the divine name is preserved in the Babylonian pronunciation even though it is not preserved in the Masoretic. But it will be some time before I have the time to check that out.

As for what is a more proper translation... well... I would say that "Yahweh" is more proper since it, at least, is based on a theoretically plausible idea (though entirely circular and based on numerous assumptions) whereas "Jehovah" is simply a nonsense word. Nevertheless, even nonsense words can become acceptable and are incorporated into languages. So it entirely depends on your translator(s), your audience(s), and/or the person(s) who hired you to do the translation.

I know that was probably not helpful in terms of helping you come to a conclusion on the matter, but that's life. :sorry:
 
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MoreCoffee

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Here's psalm 11 in metre using "Yahweh", if you sing it then you'll see how easy it is to transition between "Yahweh" and "the LORD"
1 I in Yahweh do put my trust:
how is it then that ye
Say to my soul, Flee, as a bird,
unto your mountain high?

2 For, lo, the wicked bend their bow,
their shafts on string they fit,
That those who upright are in heart
they privily may hit.

3 If the foundations be destroyed,
what hath the righteous done?
4 Yah in his holy temple is,
in heaven is Yah's throne:

Yah's eyes do see, his eye-lids try
5 men's sons. The just he proves:
But his soul hates the wicked man,
and him that vi'lence loves.

6 Snares, fire and brimstone, angry storms,
on sinners he shall rain:
This, as the portion of their cup,
doth unto them pertain.

7 Because Yahweh most righteous doth
in righteousness delight;
And with a pleasant countenance
beholdeth the upright.
 
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ChetSinger

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I've heard that 'Yahweh' is the most likely pronunciation, and I've heard scholars using it during presentations. 'Jehovah' is an Anglicized version of it. But I don't think our choice matters much, because 'Jesus' is also an Anglicized name and we use it all the time.
 
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ViaCrucis

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We don't know how the four letters Yod Hah Vav Hah (YHVH) was pronounced. Though we can immediately rule out "Jehovah", it's not a contender. The word Jehovah (Latin Iahovah) is the result of a misunderstanding of how medieval Jewish scribes rendered the four letters in medieval Hebrew texts. Those medieval scribes came up with a system known as niqqud, effectively vowel pointers to aid in the reading of the text since Hebrew lacks written vowels. In order to ensure that the word Adonai was read where YHVH was found in the text the scribes used the niqqud for Adonai, so if one tried to transcribe the text too literally the result is something like YaHoVaH (Latin used the letter 'I' and later 'J' to render the Hebrew Yod, hence Iahovah or Jehovah).

But we simply don't know how YHVH was pronounced, even as far back as the first century Jews did not pronounce the name, they supplemented it with Adonai. In Greek translations such as the Septuagint the word used was Kurios, "Lord", the same meaning as Adonai--and as has been said already, the basis for English Bibles using "LORD" usually in all caps to render the four letters (or in cases where both Adonai and YHVH appear in the text, we render it as "Lord GOD").

Though, for what it's worth, while Samaritans share the same practice as Jews about not pronouncing the four letters, they also--like Jews in the past--have a high priest who uses the name on very specific occasions. Whereas there hasn't been a Jewish priesthood since the destruction of the Temple and thus no preservation of the four letters, the Samaritan religion has continued to offer sacrifices, continued to have a priesthood to this day. So as I said, for what it's worth, the Samaritan religion retains a pronunciation something like Yahwe or Yahwa.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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I was always told the pronunciation of YHVH was lost in time. Hebrew reverence to the name was so great that they dared not pronounce it because they were unworthy of doing so. Heck Hebrew reverence was so great that when they copied a new Torah I am told that they would ceremoniously clean themselves whenever they got to the name of God, before they copied it, and sometimes they even got fresh ink wells just to copy the name.

I am not too sure of the ink well one, because that is a lot of ink wells.
 
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childofdust

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Hey, there's a vote for Jehovah for ya. :thumbsup:

Even though I avoid using "Jehovah" in my translations...sometimes I've found a warrant for it.

So, for instance, when I translate an alphabetic acrostic in the bible, I render it as an alphabetic acrostic in English. Psalm 37 is one such alphabetic acrostic. The beginning of verses 14, 16, and 18, for instance, each start with a successive letter of the Hebrew alphabet (chet, tet, and yod, respectively). In the English alphabetic sequence, that is equivalent to H, I, and J. Since verse 18 begins with the divine name, I found that the very best way I could translate the verse and keep to my English acrostic was by actually using the word "Jehovah." Thus:

14 Hoodlums have unsheathed a sword
and drawn their bow
to take down the poor and needy—
to slaughter those [whose] way [is] upright.
15 Their sword will slice through their heart
and their bows will be broken.
16 Inferior the wealth of many wicked
to the little a righteous [one] owns.
17 For the power of the wicked will be broken,
but YHWH supports the righteous.
18 Jehovah cares for the fate of the blameless—
that their inheritance may be perpetual.
19 They will not be shamed in troubling times.
In days of famine, they will have plenty.

:cool:
 
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childofdust

there is one thing that I feel should be added, it isn't the Hiphil version of the verb that is stated to be the name of God, but the Qal Imperfect 3ms.

The whole thing comes from Exodus 3:14 which says in Hebrew:
וַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־מֹשֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה
which is translated from Right to left (basically literally first) And he said God to Moses "I am/I will be who/which/that I am/I will be"

The two words אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה are the 1cs of the Qal Imperfect form which means "to be" which can be future or present or mostly any tense really since it isn't the focus, the aspect (meaning an action not presently completed in this case) is what is important.

So, the Divine Name given by God in English transliteration is "Ehyeh usher Ehyeh" which is I am who I am.

But the form of the Divine name in Hebrew is
יְהוָה֙ which looks very similar to the Qal Imperfect 3ms of "to be" which would be in English "He is" or "He will be"

The different is a Waw and Yod. The Divine Name has a Waw, and the verb has a Yod.

Going along with this, the pronunciation might be close to Yiheyah or possibly Yiheyoh, or Yihevah/YihevohI am a bit rusty on the vowel pointing on that paradigm. particularly.

Though personally, I haven't seen many people argue for that pronunciation
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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I'm betting God knows Who we're speaking of, regardless. :)

I'm sure you can refer to God as anything and He'd know you were praying to HIm.. He does know the hearts of all men and everything. You can't really hide whats in your heart to Him.
 
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cyberlizard

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if the pronunciation of the divine name was so important, why did the NT writers not see fit to include it?

I suggest they did not write it because they did not use it. The NT is replete with circumlocutions and there are many to choose from.


Steve

p.s. there are even circumlocutions in my signature line.
 
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AV1611VET

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if the pronunciation of the divine name was so important, why did the NT writers not see fit to include it?

I suggest they did not write it because they did not use it. The NT is replete with circumlocutions and there are many to choose from.


Steve

p.s. there are even circumlocutions in my signature line.
The emphasis of the New Testament is on Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Godhead -- not JEHOVAH, the First Person of the Godhead.

The 25¢ technical term for that is: ontological subordination.
 
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1watchman

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One should understand that if they are not Hebrew, but are Gentiles of the Greek language --evolved to English, that the words are changed. If one chooses to speak Hebrew that is alright, but why just a few words instead of all Hebrew?

Yahweh is a Hebrew word, and in English is Jehovah; and Yeshua is a Hebrew word, and in English is Jesus. So, there should be no problem. I am a Gentile of the English language so I speak English. I am a Christian of the New Testament faith, not of the Jewish religion, so I speak that which is of our language ....no problem!
 
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