Japanese Ainu & Global Indigenous Groups: What Aborginal Religions are your favorite?

[Gxg (G²)]

I can't say that I know much on this subject, but after moving to Sweden I did become aware of the Sami people.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Sami people are very fascinating when considering the many ways that they have managed to survive in the times they have lived in.....

• Sami Research - Business Research Launch Pad

• Sacred Land Film Project » Lands of the Sami

One of the most fascinating things about them as a people is their concept of time - as another wisely pointed out when saying the following:

Sami knowledge was based on experience in that knowledge was not obtained from a book or taught in classroom, but rather it was accumulated through repeated experiences of particular situations. Sami time was based on the cycles of nature, particularly the yearly cycle of the reindeer. Western time is based on scientific calculations and observations. From the sundial to the atomic clock, time relies on such measurements as the rotation of the earth to the number of oscillations of a particular atom. These finite measurements of time contrast drastically with the changeable calendar of the Sami. The Western concept of time is not a product of experiential learning but rather a shared careful observation made by a relative minority of the population.

Without a watch or clock, most Westerners would be unable to offer what they would consider an accurate estimate of the time. In Sami culture, knowing minutes and hours was not nearly as important as knowing what natural phenomena were occurring and which were to follow. For a people whose lives depended on nature completely, knowing when the reindeer migrate and when the salmon spawn was obviously of a higher importance than knowing the exact second, minute and hour of a particular moment in time. Specific days of the week were also part of the Sami calendar until the introduction of Christianity and the specific holy days associated with the religion. In order to understand the traditional Sami concept of time, the Western concept of time must be forgotten. In a world where Nature is ruler, Nature’s time is all that matters. One cannot predict the specific moment when reindeer herds migrate or ptarmigan chicks hatch; it changes from year to year, season to season. In a culture based entirely on Nature, time is relative to physical conditions, not necessarily the position of the stars or the planet, much less the oscillations of an atom.​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPiKAhhEHXA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=128&v=kaEFGGDYWa0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXffVjusbdY

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[smaneck]

I've heard it theorized that Kennewick Man might be Ainu but the more recent DNA study indicates it is pretty much standard Native American, which may mean they get the remains. I find the discovery of bronze artifacts in Alaska most fascinating. In regards to opposition to the Bering Strait theory, how much of that is opposition to evolution period? Is the notion of separate creations more plausible? But as I tell my students, America was discovered many, many times. Europeans were the ones who invaded it.

Someone mentioned voodoo and other African religious practices. I am of the opinion that the practice of speaking in tongues as it arose in 19th America is derived from African religion.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Someone mentioned voodoo and other African religious practices. I am of the opinion that the practice of speaking in tongues as it arose in 19th America is derived from African religion.

That sounds quite plausible! Although the ritual possession to be encountered in Afro(-Carribbean) religions is quite distinct from glossolalia, there is a strong African current in "loud" churches.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Although the ritual possession to be encountered in Afro(-Carribbean) religions is quite distinct from glossolalia, there is a strong African current in "loud" churches.

There are differing aspects of African religion that actually influenced the Black Church in many respects. Some of this was mentioned before elsewhere, as seen here:

.... the concept of Christian Animism is not a new concept. And we see this to a good degree with others such as the Thai Christians. This has also been seen within African American religious experience in Christianity when examining what occurred with Caribbean Slavery - one excellent book I'd recommend being one I'm going through right now entitled Plantation Church: How African American Religion Was Born in Caribbean Slavery - Noel Leo Erskine - Google Books. Not many consider, for example, why there was such an emphasis on getting baptized in rivers rather than in a pool in the Church when it came to Black Christianity (as it concerns the mindset that rivers/streams were sacred spaces and had a healing quality with regards to the spirit world).

 

[smaneck]

That sounds quite plausible! Although the ritual possession to be encountered in Afro(-Carribbean) religions is quite distinct from glossolalia, there is a strong African current in "loud" churches.

I know people who have recorded sessions where women essentially act as oracles for the gods and their speech is virtually identical with glossolalia.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I've heard it theorized that Kennewick Man might be Ainu but the more recent DNA study indicates it is pretty much standard Native American, which may mean they get the remains. I find the discovery of bronze artifacts in Alaska most fascinating. In regards to opposition to the Bering Strait theory, how much of that is opposition to evolution period? Is the notion of separate creations more plausible? But as I tell my students, America was discovered many, many times. Europeans were the ones who invaded it.

The information uncovered in Alaska is very fascinating in regards to the issue of artifacts that were uncovered.

As it concerns what you noted with the Bering Strait theory, most of the opposition is due to the issue of many valuing Separate creations or feeling that belief in the Bering Strait means one advocates Native Americans were not already present within the Americas as the first people to be there - that the Creation myths are not valid.

And of course, I don't think that the Bering Strait is the only way people came to North America since other groups also came over as well. I know you and others have debated the issue before (as seen here /here and here), as I have also brought up discussion on groups migrating over as well (as seen here and here).

Of course, I agree with you on how Europeans were the ones invading America even though others were already living on it. And I agree with others noting that there were other groups coming to the Americas long before the Europeans - as was the case with the Polynesians. I am reminded of Easter Island and how it was most likely first settled around 1200 AD by a group of Polynesians arrivng via double-hulled canoes...although it has been suggested that the evidence also suggest that either Native Americans sailed to Rapa Nui or Polynesians sailed to the Americas and back. T

• Did Polynesians Sail to South America? Genetics Suggest Early Link | adventure journal

• How The Sweet Potato Crossed The Pacific Way Before The Europeans Did : The Salt : NPR

• Ancient Easter Islanders Likely Sailed Back And Forth to South America | Smart News | Smithsonian

• SEA Semester | Study Abroad with SEA Semester: Ocean Science & Sailing Program - Nautical, Maritime, & Oceanography Studies | SPICE Atlas Project: Rangiroa

• https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Australia_Maps

It was truly fascinating to learn on how certain vegetables (like the sweet potato) made it all the way to Polynesia from the Andes — nearly 400 years before Inca gold was presented before Ferdinand and Isabella's eyes...and the findings, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, offer more evidence that ancient Polynesians may have interacted with people in South America long before the Europeans set foot on the continent.
....and ....and to see the history of the people there as well as other parts of the Polynesian Islands is truly stunning - especially their artwork

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mcliwfs6Pg

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[Gxg (G²)]

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On the issue of Polynesian cultures and how vibrant they are....some good presentations and documentaries

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPHRlBCsCI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEGJa8uZ-GU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-bVu_FiJ50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqx6xLFFsao

 

[smaneck]

As it concerns what you noted with the Bering Strait theory, most of the opposition is due to the issue of many valuing Separate creations or feeling that belief in the Bering Strait means one advocates Native Americans were not already present within the Americas as the first people to be there - that the Creation myths are not valid.[/QUOTE

I don't think there is any question but that the NDNs were the first people here, at least the first to have living descendants. I see the Bering Strait theory as the most likely route for bulk of Pre-Columbian immigrations. The idea that NDNs were a separate creation, which originated in America is unacceptable to me for both scientific reasons and religious ones. Scientific because there is no evidence of this, religious because as you know the Baha'i Faith considers the unity of humanity its most important principle.

I am reminded of Easter Island and how it was most likely first settled around 1200 AD by a group of Polynesians arrivng via double-hulled canoes...although it has been suggested that the evidence also suggest that either Native Americans sailed to Rapa Nui or Polynesians sailed to the Americas and back.

You know about the chicken bones in Chile. My question would be, if the Polynesians made it to Chile why in the world would they go back to Easter Island? By that time was there anything to eat there but rats?

• Did Polynesians Sail to South America? Genetics Suggest Early Link | adventure journal

The reference to Brazilian natives having Polynesian DNA is most interesting. The question would be, how would Polynesians get to the Southeast of South America? Wouldn't that involve getting around Tierra del Fuego? That's strikes me as highly unlikely.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I don't think there is any question but that the NDNs were the first people here, at least the first to have living descendants. I see the Bering Strait theory as the most likely route for bulk of Pre-Columbian immigrations. The idea that NDNs were a separate creation, which originated in America is unacceptable to me for both scientific reasons and religious ones. Scientific because there is no evidence of this, religious because as you know the Baha'i Faith considers the unity of humanity its most important principle.

I can understand the leaning toward the Bering Strait Theory as being a means of trying to see how Pre-Columbian immigrations occurred - although I know it is far from the only theory and I am glad for others pointing out how often it is relied upon too much to explain how others could be present.

• • New Study Shows Native Americans Traveled to Easter Island Before European Contact - ICTMN.com
• Moai Than Meets the Eye: More Proof Bering Strait Theory is Wrong - ICTMN.com
  
• Bering Strait Theory, Pt. 1: How Dogma Trumped Science - ICTMN.com
  
• Bering Strait Theory, Pt. 2: Racism, Eugenics and When Natives Came to America - ICTMN.com
  
• Bering Strait Theory, Pt. 3: The Theory Becomes a Religious Crusade - ICTMN.com
  
• Bering Strait Theory, Pt. 4: The Indisputable Facts in the Artifacts - ICTMN.com
  
• Bering Strait Theory, Pt. 5: The Theory Comes Crashing Down - ICTMN.com
  
• Bering Strait Theory, Pt. 6: DNA, Blood Types and Stereotypes - ICTMN.com

As another noted:

Vine Deloria Jr. called the Bering Strait theory of origin of the native peoples of the Americas a “scientific myth.” He said that this theory had little or no evidence to support it, that it was a myth perpetuated through the biases and narrow foci of white American scientists, and that it was used to discredit the native perspective of origins and cultures on this continent.
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The Bearing straight land bridge theory promulgated for many years is that the Americas' Aboriginal people descend from Mongoloid migrants who walked across the Bering Strait at the end of the last ice age. It is a theory still mistakenly believed, but debunked by new science and old Aboriginal creation stories.
It is also a theory debunked by the bones of the ancestors themselves!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~

Hau kola,
Hello friend. Allow me to offer you some facts and considerations which debunk the 'Bering Strait' theory...

First and foremost, as you have mentioned, there are many Indigenous sites, traditional teachings and calendars that pre-date the ice-age by tens of thousands of years. One such example is the Mohawk Nation calendar. It is not the year 2000 for the Mohawk people, it is the year 33115. This is the number of years the Mohawk people have been recording an annual count.
Other facts...

If indeed there was such a thing as an 'ice-bridge', science clearly shows that it would be virtually impossible for any human migration to have occurred. Any attempt would have almost certainly resulted in death. It is also a reasonable possibility that this so called 'ice-bridge' never even existed at all!
Other facts...​

But of course, I can understand others not opposed to the Bering Strait theory who try to point out where it has been abused by others not concerned for Native Americans - as noted here in Bering strait theory, and the Out of Africa model scientific method, not dogma. (which addressed the articles from Indian Network). As I said in the OP, it is not something I will fall on my sword for since I am not of the mindset that travel and migration means Native Americans weren't here first - and I am also not against the mindset that Native Americans could have developed here for the reasons noted later. I am glad, as it concerns science, that the case of the American Indian belief in a separate origin is already present in scientific ideas like the "Out of America" hypotheses more here in the following:

• Out-of-America vs. Out-of-Africa Families of Hypotheses

And I am glad for what another noted when pointing out what another had said when saying the following:

As long as we are all agreed that Indians have lived on these lands for at least 20,000 years, about twice as long as anyone has lived in England, then I don't think we have anything to quarrel about

​

• =Rewriting American Prehistory: (article discussing archaeological finds that predate the "ice-free corridor)

• Ancient Bones May Rewrite Theory (Article on sea-route alternatives to the Bering Straight theory.
  )

And from a religious/scientific standpoint, my mindset is that the concept of the continent being one (Pangea) harmonizes for me well when it comes to how landmasses can be separated (Genesis 10:25 )- as it concerns Genesis 10:25 noting And to Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan and Genesis 10:5 which says "By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."

And there are many differing theories, some even noting the concept of "island hopping" when certain areas were present (and others noting how people even came to South America from Africa rather than the Bering Strait in light of scientific studies saying that human civilization originally came from Africa and then went further).

We have plenty of archaeological evidence that peoples have lived on every continent for thousands of years, including some like the Indians of North America and the Aborigines of Australia...and I have no problem with Creation myths allowing for others to be present on a continent and then be separated from others due to geographical changes (like having a puzzle piece with people on it and then removing other pieces away from it with people still on it) - only to have more people join on when traveling further in the future and visiting the land. Cultural diffusion allows for others to be spread out, AND my theistic perspective and advocating what the Scriptures note (including the Flood narrative) being a big point behind how so many cultures can have similar accounts on how the world began. The Unity found within Diversity and common story in religion is a big deal for me...

• The Native American Theory

• Of Peleg and Pangaea

Some of this was discussed more in-depth here and here.

And to be clear, as an aside, I don't necessarily have a problem discussing things like migratory patterns of NDNs and how they potentially developed - but the focus on the thread is meant to center on identifying religions within Indigenous cultrues from a global perspective and saying why those cultures are valuable.

You know about the chicken bones in Chile.

Of course - why would I not?

My question would be, if the Polynesians made it to Chile why in the world would they go back to Easter Island? By that time was there anything to eat there but rats?

I would think that every culture has their reasons for going back and forth - some involving visiting and others involving deadly weather (Even if food back where they came from wasn't the best) and a lot of others..

The reference to Brazilian natives having Polynesian DNA is most interesting. The question would be, how would Polynesians get to the Southeast of South America? Wouldn't that involve getting around Tierra del Fuego? That's strikes me as highly unlikely.

One has to consider the issue of island hopping as well as the fact that movement doesn't have to occur instanteously....

 

[smaneck]

If indeed there was such a thing as an 'ice-bridge', science clearly shows that it would be virtually impossible for any human migration to have occurred. Any attempt would have almost certainly resulted in death. It is also a reasonable possibility that this so called 'ice-bridge' never even existed at all!

Actually the theory would be better called the Beringia theory as the Bering Straits is somewhat misleading. There would have been no straits back then. What connected the two continents was a land-bridge, not an ice-bridge. Because so much of the world's water was locked up in glaciers there was more land exposed. For instance Australia, Tasmania and New Guinea were all connected. People reached Australia by walking from New Guinea.

As long as we are all agreed that Indians have lived on these lands for at least 20,000 years, about twice as long as anyone has lived in England, then I don't think we have anything to quarrel about​

Actually, the Beringia theory would put them in America about 15,000 years ago than 20,000.

[*]=Rewriting American Prehistory: (article discussing archaeological finds that predate the "ice-free corridor)
[/LIST]

That article debunks the theory that they arrived only about 10,000 years ago, I think only the Athabascans came that late.

• Ancient Bones May Rewrite Theory (Article on sea-route alternatives to the Bering Straight theory.

• 
  
  I don't think this negates the Beringia theory. It simply suggests that once having arrived in Alaska, many of them came by boat down the West Coast rather than travel overland. That seems likely to me. Hard to explain how they could get all the way to South America by 13000 years ago, otherwise.
  )

And from a religious/scientific standpoint, my mindset is that the concept of the continent being one (Pangea) harmonizes for me well when it comes to how landmasses can be separated (Genesis 10:25 )

Ugh. Don't tell me you are a young earth creationist! Dinosaurs were still roaming the land when Pangea existed.

We have plenty of archaeological evidence that peoples have lived on every continent for thousands of years, including some like the Indians of North America and the Aborigines of Australia...

Of course. The Aborigines reached Australia 20,000 years before my ancestors left Africa, settled in Europe and began interbreeding with Neanderthals.​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Ugh. Don't tell me you are a young earth creationist! Dinosaurs were still roaming the land when Pangea existed.

Actually I am a Progressive Creationist and I don't hold to the "either or" logic that says it cannot be both young and old (more shared here and here and here and here and here /here) - and I also leaned toward Theistic Evolution. It wouldn't matter if I were a young Earth Creationists (seeing how many in Bahai are as well as well as multiple other religions) since it would have no relevance to the point I brought up earlier - the thread is primarily focused on Indigenous Groups of people/their religions and which ones posters value. One can have a separate thread on the other issues, but I don't care to take this thread into that direction...

Actually the theory would be better called the Beringia theory as the Bering Straits is somewhat misleading. There would have been no straits back then. What connected the two continents was a land-bridge, not an ice-bridge. Because so much of the world's water was locked up in glaciers there was more land exposed. For instance Australia, Tasmania and New Guinea were all connected. People reached Australia by walking from New Guinea.

People tend to use the term "ice-bridge" and land bridge interchangeably, depending on the context - but much in the world of science has debated the extent - and some have debated the extent of connection with Australia and New Guinea.

As another noted best:

There is no clear or accepted origin of the indigenous people of Australia. Although they migrated to Australia through Southeast Asia they are not demonstrably related to any known Asian or Polynesian population. There is evidence of genetic and linguistic interchange between Australians in the far north and the Austronesian peoples of modern-day New Guinea and the islands, but this may be the result of recent trade and intermarriage.​

Actually, the Beringia theory would put them in America about 15,000 years ago than 20,000.

Of course....

That article debunks the theory that they arrived only about 10,000 years ago, I think only the Athabascans came that late.

I can understand

I don't think this negates the Beringia theory. It simply suggests that once having arrived in Alaska, many of them came by boat down the West Coast rather than travel overland. That seems likely to me. Hard to explain how they could get all the way to South America by 13000 years ago, otherwise.
)

I can get that.....

Of course. The Aborigines reached Australia 20,000 years before my ancestors left Africa, settled in Europe and began interbreeding with Neanderthals.

Indeed...

And on a side note, Aboriginal people are truly fascinating....and I am amazed at how extensive their culture is. Some have noted that the first Americans were actually Aborigines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6IrMjfbh6E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfwy1z5oXHc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j_r0Wgg0T0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1h9NKrn17w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seh0-_JMBuQ

 

[smaneck]

and I also leaned toward Theistic Evolution.

Me too.

It wouldn't matter if I were a young Earth Creationists (seeing how many in Bahai are as well as well as multiple other religions)

The only way you could be a YEC in the Baha'i Faith would be if you were ignorant or ignore what Abdu'l-Baha said about how old the earth is. There are Baha'is, however, whose views on evolution would not coincide with our current scientific evidence. It all depends on how certain of Abdu'l-Baha's statements regarding evolution are understood. I stick with the science, myself.

since it would have no relevance to the point I brought up earlier -

I mentioned it because you seemed to be suggesting that people were on earth before continental drift occurred.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Me too.

Cool to know...

The only way you could be a YEC in the Baha'i Faith would be if you were ignorant or ignore what Abdu'l-Baha said about how old the earth is. There are Baha'is, however, whose views on evolution would not coincide with our current scientific evidence. It all depends on how certain of Abdu'l-Baha's statements regarding evolution are understood. I stick with the science, myself.

That goes back to understanding how not all versions of an Old Earth imply certain forms of life being equally as old - and scientific evidence is debated on all sides and that's the reason there are so many different theories on how things developed.

I mentioned it because you seemed to be suggesting that people were on earth before continental drift occurred.

I can understand that - nonetheless, as it concerns the religious ideology of creationism, people being on the Earth before Continental Drift is not something I am opposed to (as is the case with other Indigenous People's) - it wouldn't be opposed to the religion.

But again, to be clear, if anything, the focus for any kind of discussion would need to go back directly to addressing what Indigenous Groups have said on the issue and why their thoughts are valuable - since they are the subject of the thread rather than what other religions believe on the matter.

 

[dlamberth]

But again, to be clear, if anything, the focus for any kind of discussion would need to go back directly to addressing what Indigenous Groups have said on the issue and why their thoughts are valuable

The Q'ero of Peru that I mentioned in an earlier post claim their lineage and life style directly back to the Inca's. Their Shaman's are called "Paqo's" and of course say the same. What I'm curious about are the people who came before the Inca. They left behind some pretty interesting construction, much of which the Inca's built on top of....
- Saksaywaman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've sometimes wondered how much if any Shamanic ways of those ancient pre-Inca Shaman's have made it forward through the Inca and on to the Paqo's of the Q'ero.

.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The Q'ero of Peru that I mentioned in an earlier post claim their lineage and life style directly back to the Inca's. Their Shaman's are called "Paqo's" and of course say the same. What I'm curious about are the people who came before the Inca. They left behind some pretty interesting construction, much of which the Inca's built on top of....
- Saksaywaman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've sometimes wondered how much if any Shamanic ways of those ancient pre-Inca Shaman's have made it forward through the Inca and on to the Paqo's of the Q'ero.

.

Q'ero are very fascinating in many ways...

• Despacho | Alethea's Blog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2OnKr9YSvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iFepjd9gMI&index=3&list=PLeHf-aDNLJ0o5MEDQW9oxK8hTVOQaQ_-k

 

[Gxg (G²)]

For myself, it's Q'ero Shamanism of the Peruvian Andes that draws me in.

Q'ero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.

Curious, as it concerns Indigenous People groups, if you've ever heard of the Aboriginal groups in the Asian world such as the Taiwan countries....

​

 

[dlamberth]

Gxg (G²), I don't know why it is, but I'm unable to reply to your post with quotes attached. A blank window comes up.

Q'ero are very fascinating in many ways...

• Despacho | Alethea's Blog
  

I was somewhat dumb founded in that the blog you linked to is my Shaman teacher. I never expected to see that here in this forum. But a good choice to link to. There's a lot New Age stuff out there masquerading as authentic. I share another spiritual tradition with her as will. And it's because I know her authenticity and history is why I went to her.

.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Gxg (G²), I don't know why it is, but I'm unable to reply to your post with quotes attached. A blank window comes up.


.

Odd - as I've had that before, although I've found that it depends on the computer that I am using generally.

As it concerns what was said,

I was somewhat dumb founded in that the blog you linked to is my Shaman teacher. I never expected to see that here in this forum. But a good choice to link to. There's a lot New Age stuff out there masquerading as authentic. I share another spiritual tradition with her as will. And it's because I know her authenticity and history is why I went to her.

Interesting to hear - and many thanks for letting me know as I had no idea.

Small world after all - and yes, I am bothered with the things as you are which are often just New Age things trying to make themselves seem authentic. There was a documentary on Sacred Lands which pointed out the issue when it came to Native American cultural practices being claimed by New Agers who didn't actually respect the land

• Sacred Land Film Project » In the Light of Reverence

On a side note, as it concerns other tribes, have you ever heard of the Dani?

For more information on them, there's an excellent documentary on the issue called Dead Birds. For further reference:

• https://opm.fandor.com/films/dead_birds

As said there, for brief reference:

DEAD BIRDS is a film about the Dani, a people dwelling in the Grand Valley of the Baliem high in the mountains of West Irian. When I shot the film in 1961, the Dani had an almost classic Neolithic culture. They were exceptional in the way they focussed their energies and based their values on an elaborate system of intertribal warfare and revenge. Neighboring groups of Dani clans, separated by uncultivated strips of no man's land, engaged in frequent formal battles. When a warrior was killed in battle or died from a wound and even when a woman or a child lost their life in an enemy raid, the victors celebrated and the victims mourned. Because each death had to be avenged, the balance was continually being adjusted with the spirits of the aggrieved lifted and the ghosts of slain comrades satisfied as soon as a compensating enemy life was taken. There was no thought in the Dani world of wars ever ending, unless it rained or became dark. Without war there would be no way to satisfy the ghosts. Wars were also the best way they knew to keep a terrible harmony in a life which would be, without the strife they invented, mostly hard and dull. DEAD BIRDS has a meaning which is both immediate and allegorical. In the Dani language it refers to the weapons and ornaments recovered in battle. Its other more poetic meaning comes from the Dani belief that people, because they are like birds, must die. In making DEAD BIRDS certain kinds of behavior were followed, never directed. It was an attempt to see people from within and to wonder, when the selected fragments of that life were assembled, if they might speak not only of the Dani but also of ourselves. - Robert Gardner​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYoHkIw7WWk

 

[Red Fox]

FYI, there is a glitch that can prevent you from quoting another post or from editing your own post.

 

[dlamberth]

FYI, there is a glitch that can prevent you from quoting another post or from editing your own post.

Is there a way to overcome that glitch? I have this same issue with two people.

.