timothyu

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A word of Latin origin (from "gens"; "gentilis"), designating a people not Jewish, commonly applied to non-Jews. The word "Gentile" corresponds to the late Hebrew "goi," a synonym for "nokri," signifying "stranger," "non-Jew."...Jewish Encyclopedia

11 of the 12 tribes were not Jewish. And naming Israel today Israel is a misnomer as it might as well be called Judah until the other nations return also.
 
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RDKirk

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I wasn’t aware that Peter that ever considered such a thing. Can you show an example of this?

“And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭NASB‬‬

That's what that entire dream about the food descending in a sheet was about. Peter told Jesus "no" twice. After he'd baptized Cornelius, he clearly explained that the only reason he did was because the Holy Spirit had leapfrogged him.

If the Holy Spirit had not acted first, Peter had never considered the gospel for Gentiles. He and everyone else had the idea that the gospel was for Jews (including proselytes).
 
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timothyu

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He and everyone else had the idea that the gospel was for Jews (including proselytes).


Matthew u0:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: because the Jews must first reject it

Matthew 15: 24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. All 12 tribes of the House of Israel.
 
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RDKirk

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Matthew u0:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: because the Jews must first reject it

Matthew 15: 24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. All 12 tribes of the House of Israel.

So you proved my point.
 
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UnprofitableServant

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No one can apply James's "faith without works" to faith in Jesus Christ because salvation is without works. Paul explains this;


Applying James' statement of "faith without works is dead" having direct correlation to salvation is the only way to take it. How do I know? Jesus teaches is.

Matthew 25:31-46, "
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire (everlasting fire doesn't sound like saved to me), prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

James was reminding people the seriousness of disobeying Jesus' command to help the poor. After reading this, it seems pretty clear to me that Jesus and James (also Paul) taught that obeying Jesus' commands are important factors in the discussion of salvation.
Though, many people build their doctrines on someone else besides Jesus, so I won't be surprised if people find other places in the Bible to try and negate Jesus and His words. This video explains very clearly the danger in doing that... bit.ly/Jesusteachings

In peace
 
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BNR32FAN

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That's what that entire dream about the food descending in a sheet was about. Peter told Jesus "no" twice. After he'd baptized Cornelius, he clearly explained that the only reason he did was because the Holy Spirit had leapfrogged him.

If the Holy Spirit had not acted first, Peter had never considered the gospel for Gentiles. He and everyone else had the idea that the gospel was for Jews (including proselytes).

Ok I see your point that makes sense.
 
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BNR32FAN

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In context, you can see with His help that James is not talking about saving faith, but faith in His Providence when he goes on to explain what he was talking about.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

If a church verbalized that faith to the poor without leading by example for them to see that faith, can that church's faith in His Providence "profit" the poor or even save the poor? No. Because in the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in His providence is dead; therefore how can that faith in His Providence save the poor when it does not profit the poor seeing how the church's faith in His Providence is dead?

That church's faith in His Providence is dead in the eyes of the poor and so it will not profit the poor in applying that faith that God will provide for them to save the poor from starvation and the elements.

That seems like a huge stretch. I don’t see anything to indicate that James wasn’t talking about faith in Christ. Like I said John 15:1-10 clearly shows that a person will not receive salvation if they don’t bear fruit and abide in Christ.
 
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BNR32FAN

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There are 2 greatest commandments in the O.T. and that is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, souls, and strength and love others as yourself. In the New Testament, the 2 greatest commandments is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and love others see verse 23 of 1 John 3:22-24

Since by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for all things; that we are saved simply by believing in Him and that He is our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him, is how and why we can love others by.

So when I look at Abraham, I see that God is pleased by him because Abraham believed God. That was why and how he was righteous and upon that belief is why God helped him to follow Him.

So believers are not to look at the works they are to do; but to Jesus Christ to lead them in what He wants them to do at the time He wants them to do it as well as to help them to do it.

Trust is the basis for all relationships. Since Abraham was before the law of Moses, we can see why trust is the core for living that relationship with God in the O.T. as well as in the N.T. , but in the N.T. we can know God even more by personally through Jesus Christ and His words.

I agree that faith produces works but works are also evidence of faith. A lack of works means a lack of faith. The definitions of the Greek words for faith, believe, and believer all include a sense of devotion and obedience. Unfortunately the English definitions of the words do not encompass the full meaning of the Greek words used in the scriptures.
 
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ace of hearts

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Amen! In James 2:21, we notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
James isn't talking about works of the law some here claim is fruit.
 
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New Birth

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I think faith demands action. If one thinks of faith as someone from the Old test does them you would see action accompanying faith. Such as Noah "built" the arc. Abraham "went out". Moses "forsook" Egypt etc.
In the new testament there is a response that should come at hearing the preached word. Remember "faith comes by hearing". When Peter preached on Pentecost faith was inspired in the hearer and there was a response "men and breathren what shall we do?" Then instructions were given to follow Acts 2:38.
Other times the gospel would be preached people would of their own accord say "hey there is water what hinders me from being baptized".
We can see over and over the proper response in faith is just that, a response. Hearing and no action is not the response God is looking for, remember the scripture in James 1:22 but be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Also faith without works is dead not living.
Responding to the gospel should not be mistaken as saved by works, no amount of feeding the poor or doing more good than bad will save. But a proper response to the gospel in faith will save.
 
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timothyu

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I still don’t see where Peter thought that he wasn’t supposed to preach to everyone.

Matthew u0:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: because the Jews must first reject it
 
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timothyu

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I agree that faith produces works but works are also evidence of faith.

Consider those that do good unto others all their life, it coming naturally to them without even knowing Jesus. It is not doing good that counts as Jesus told the Lord Lords, but doing the will of God instead of the will of man as the Gospel of the Kingdom teaches. It's always about motive. Yes there will be good fruits showing charity and the like but the real fruit is standing out against the will of man which is self serving and self determining, the original sin. The works evident of faith do not follow the will of man or use man's methods.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Consider those that do good unto others all their life, it coming naturally to them without even knowing Jesus. It is not doing good that counts as Jesus told the Lord Lords, but doing the will of God instead of the will of man as the Gospel of the Kingdom teaches. It's always about motive. Yes there will be good fruits showing charity and the like but the real fruit is standing out against the will of man which is self serving and self determining, the original sin. The works evident of faith do not follow the will of man or use man's methods.

It’s hard to know the motives of unbelievers who do good works. Perhaps some are being guided by the Spirit even in their disbelief. Who knows? One thing I do know is a person who is abiding in Christ will bear much fruit. He’s not a wicked lazy servant. So if someone is not bearing fruit they are not abiding in Christ and that person will not be saved. John 15:1-10
 
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timothyu

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t’s hard to know the motives of unbelievers who do good works. Perhaps some are being guided by the Spirit even in their disbelief.

I believe if that were the case they would have already turned against the self serving will of man, rejecting our traditional characteristics. Is it then necessary to know Jesus even if they already follow God's will? Seems to me they will be in for a nice surprise while the lord lords are going how come.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I believe if that were the case they would have already turned against the self serving will of man, rejecting our traditional characteristics. Is it then necessary to know Jesus even if they already follow God's will? Seems to me they will be in for a nice surprise while the lord lords are going how come.

I believe salvation is the result of a synergetic cooperation with God’s will.
 
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timothyu

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I believe salvation is the result of a synergetic cooperation with God’s will.

Yes, loving all neighbours as self rather than supporting the self serving, self justifying, redefining good and evil to serve the gain at the expense of others nature of mankind.
 
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ace of hearts

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All scripture is in agreement. We are under a New Law through Christ, and sin is the transgression of this law.
1. James 2:
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

1 John 3:
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.



If a man says he has faith but does not the work of God then he is not of Christ. For we are the workmanship of God created unto good works. We love our neighbor and the Lord not in word, but in deed and truth.
James 2:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Ephesians 2:10
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 14:15-31
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

1 John 3:17-18,23-24
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 3:
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.



Abraham was justified by his works when he offered up Abraham on the Altar, showing in deed and truth that he was righteous. But it was not by works alone, it was by his faith that he obeyed the command of God. Serving the Lord in both mind and body. By Faith Abraham was justified, as well as by works. Now we also by faith obey and do the works of God we were created to do.
James 2:
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Hebrews 11:
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:


Genesis 22:
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

It was not until Abraham had proven by his deed/works in raising the knife to slay his son that an angel was sent to stop him. His faith in his heart and mind caused him to serve the Lord in the Body producing works. His faith and works being wrought together were made perfect.
11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Paul tells us that he was not justified by works alone, that if only by works was he justified then he would not have been counted worthy before God. Paul says instead it was by his faith that he was justified first, being shown righteous by his belief. The same belief that caused him to do all that the Lord commanded him to do.
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

We are to serve the Lord not in thought alone, but we are to serve him in deed also. We should not yield our bodies to be the servants of sin(which is the transgression of the Law of Christ).
As Frontlets between thy eye's Deut 6:6-8.... The Forehead is a symbol for the mind Deut 6:6-8; Rom 7:25; Revelation 14:1,17:5 Ez 3:8-9....Rom 7;25 with my mind i serve the Law of Y.H.W.H.... The hand is a symbol for actions Ez 13:9 Eccle 9:10 Isa 59:6

We must serve the Lord with both our mind and body, in both thought and deed, with both faith and works.
__________________________________________________________________
2. Paul states that we are not justified by the works of the Law of Moses, instead he states that we are justified by the Law of Faith put into place by Christ.
Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

The Old Mosaic law has Passed we are now under the new Law/covenant through Christ.
New Covenant is the Law of Liberty:James 1:,21,22,25; James 2:8,9,10,11,12
New Covenant is the Law of Life:Romans 8:2; Galatians 6:2; John 14:6
New Covenant is the Law of Righteousness:Romans 10:6; Romans 9:30
New Covenant is the Law of Salvation:Ephesians 2:8; Acts 4:12; Acts 28:28; Romans 1:16
New Covenant is the Law of Spirit:Romans 8:2; Romans 7:6,12,14,15,16,22,25; Romans 8:1,4,14; Romans 8:9,10,11,13,16
New covenant is the Law of Faith:Romans 3:21,22,24,25,26,27; Galatians 2:16; Hebrews 11;


The Law of Moses was not against the promises of God(Galatians 3:21) but life could not come by the law(Galatians 3:21) so that before faith came we were kept under the law shut up in our faith(Galatians 3:23) by the law were the means to bring us unto Christ(Galatians 3:24) so that after faith had come by the promise which was Christ(Galatians 3:13,14,16,17,22,24,26,29) we were no longer to be kept under the schoolmaster which was the mosaic law(Galatians 3:25) but instead are after the promise of faith which is the law of faith(Galatians 3:7-9,11,24,25;Romans 3:27).


Remember only those who serve the Lord by keeping his commandments with faith are called righteous in the Last days.
Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Revelation 14:
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

God bless you
You do say some good things, but I'm a little confused by your post. Maybe it's just too long.
 
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