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Featured James's "Faith Without Works"

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Revelation 22:10-12, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Being the worst of all sinners, he remained in the position to judge no not one.


    Matthew 7,1-5
    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

    Luke 6,37
    John 7,24
    James 4,11-12
    Romans 2,1-3
    Ephesians 4,29
    Romans 14,1-13
    John 8,7
    Matthew 7,1-2
    Titus 3,2-7
    Luke 6,31
    Proverbs 31,9
    Matthew 6,14-15

    Funny how people think the saints are exempt from scriptures lessons and so they did no wrong.
     
  2. Revelation 22:10-12

    Revelation 22:10-12 Member

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    Who makes any one a saint? The same as Who makes any one a son of god. Jesus Christ does it.

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    And Paul being in Heaven cannot make intercessions for us to God.

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

    Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

    Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

    Only God hears prayers and it is Jesus is the only One that answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

    John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
     
  3. Revelation 22:10-12

    Revelation 22:10-12 Member

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    You can pretty much trust God to confirm His words to you in the King James Bible. He has for me.

    All modern Bibles seem to be in it for seeking gain and they still haven't made an easier to read Bible than the KJV yet. Otherwise why are they still making more Bible versions? Answer; money more than anything else.
     
  4. Tigger45

    Tigger45 St. Patrick Apostle to Ireland Supporter

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    That’s not what St. Peter thought. I’m gonna go with what he wrote.

    2 Peter 3:16
    He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
     
  5. Revelation 22:10-12

    Revelation 22:10-12 Member

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    Try reading His words in this light.

    Matthew 7,1-5
    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

    Jesus was speaking against those who correct others and yet are doing the same thing still. He did not say you can never correct others. He said remove the log out of your own eye, hence repent, before correcting others, removing the speck in their eye.

    Jesus did teach correcting brothers that have gone astray and to excommunicate them if they still refuse to repent before the whole church.

    Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

    I doubt those verses will make your case when obviously scripture tells us we are to correct others.
     
  6. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I think the following are two important things to keep in mind when dealing with things of this nature:

    1) Homolegoumena > antilegomena. The New Testament didn't assemble itself, some books were accepted almost from the beginning, these are the universally accepted books (homolegoumena); while there were other books which were debated and contested, some more than others (antilegomena). The homolegoumena includes the Four Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, the Thirteen Epistles of Paul, and the two Catholic Epistles of 1 Peter and 1 John. The antilegomena consists of 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, Hebrews, James, Jude, the Revelation of John, the Didache, 1 Clement, the Shepherd, the Epistle of Barnabas, and the Revelation of Peter. In time certain books of the antilegomena, but not all of them, came to enjoy broad consensus and acceptance; though in some cases it took a very long time: as late as the 14th century some copies of the Vulgate contained the spurious letter to the Laodiceans, hence its inclusion in John Wycliffe's translation, and other similar pecularities in other parts of the Christian world. As a rule, one should probably not use antilegomena to establish doctrine over and against homolegoumena, if there is any conflict (not saying there is, but should one be found) homolegoumena should take precedence. As such, if there is any conflict between Paul's letters and the letter of James (again, not saying there is, but if there were such a conflict) then the letters of Paul take precedence. As such using James to undermine the doctrine of Justification is bad biblical application.

    2) Clarity > obscurity. There are times when Scripture is more consistent and clear than other times; if we should see "X" repeated again and again, but then in one or two instances find something that seems to suggest "Not X", we should be confident that the consistent witness of Scripture is still "X", and at that juncture being our treatment of the confusing or obscure statements. On the issue of Justification, what is the clear and consistent witness of Scripture? Thus when we find, for example here in James, something that brings confusion or even conflict with that consistent witness, we should not abandon the consistent witness but instead understand how and in what way the conflicting witness fits into the overall picture. Is this actual conflict, or merely apparent conflict?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  7. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    So these people written about 2000 years ago in one one church,
    you hijack this bit of history to not very subtly insult people you deem ignorant?
    I guess I don't follow you.
     
  8. tdidymas

    tdidymas Newbie

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    What legalism? and how does Paul not support those scriptures? I don't see the basis of your point, can you please explain?
    TD:)
     
  9. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Such is the traditional way of man vs the way of God's will. If the focus was on the Gospel of the Kingdom, Christians would be more aware of the fact Jesus came to say we've got it all backwards. The institutions of man don't want to hear that and don't want us to hear that. Takes a chunk out of their control be it Christian or secular.
     
  10. Tigger45

    Tigger45 St. Patrick Apostle to Ireland Supporter

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    I didn’t hijack anything. You wrote this below,
    St. Peter wrote 2 Peter 3:16
    He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    I’m sticking with St. Peter.
     
  11. Concord1968

    Concord1968 LCMS Lutheran

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    Since KJV Onlyism has crept in, here's a public service announcement:

     
  12. Not David

    Not David Der Ewige Katechumene

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    I never said to obey the Jewish law, I said we have Christian responsibilities we have to obey
     
  13. Not David

    Not David Der Ewige Katechumene

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    Soul sleep is a modern heresy. The Bible talk about Lazarus and the rich man being aware of what's going on, and Revelation talk about the saints being aware of what happens in Earth.
     
  14. Not David

    Not David Der Ewige Katechumene

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    So you don't ask people to pray for you?
     
  15. Not David

    Not David Der Ewige Katechumene

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    Sorry, but that some books of the Bible were introduced later does not mean we cannot get doctrine from them. Also, which what authority do you say some books have more authority than others?
     
  16. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Characters of a parable are actual now?
     
  17. Not David

    Not David Der Ewige Katechumene

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    Does it say it is a parable? Didn't Jesus said to the thief "Today you will be with me in Paradise"?
     
  18. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Depends on your view of the punctuation issue.
     
  19. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Does it say it is a real occurrence?
     
  20. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    1. We are all judged under the Law of Liberty(John 12:48;Romans 2:16) so to do we judge by this same Law(1 Cor 2:15, 6:2-5; John 7:24). He that shows respect for persons because of wealth or position is judged by this same law of Liberty as a sinner(Romans 2:11-16;Acts 10:34-35;Colossians 3:25), because it is the Law we will all be judged by in the Last day.
    It is the Law of Liberty being spoken of throughout these verses here. As the law of Liberty is the only Law being mentioned(it is also the Royal Law).
    James 2:
    8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
    9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
    10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
    12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
    13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

    2. Yes the Law of Moses is done and we now have a new law told to us by Christ and the Apostles.

    3. Yes the Hope is in Christ through faith, but the works produced by that faith being wrought together becomes perfect. Faith and works for justification, Faith alone for Salvation.

    4. I have brother, the Law of Moses was written on Parchment by the Hand of Moses, it was completely done away with by Christ's death and resurrection when he spiritually ascended into heaven and entered into the second apartment to sprinkle his blood on the Alter before the Throne of YHWH

    Handwriting of ordinances-Exodus 34:27; Nehemiah 9:13,14; 2 Chronicles 33:8; Exodus 18:20; Leviticus 18:4; 2 Kings 17:34,35,37,38

    Law of moses-Joshua 8:31,32,34,35; Joshua 23:6; Judges 4:11; 1 Kings 2:3; 2 Kings 14:6; 2 Kings 23:25; 2 Chronicles 23:18; 2 Chronicles 30:16; Ezra 3:2; Ezra 7:6; Nehemiah 8:1; Daniel 9:11,13; Malachi 4:4

    Law of the Covenant/Book of the Covenant- Exodus 34:27; Exodus 24:7; 2 Kings 23:21; 2 Kings 23:2,3,21

    Book of the Law- Deut 29:27,29; Joshua 1:7-8; Deuteronomy 31:24,26; Deuteronomy 30:10; Joshua 23:6; Joshua 24:26; 2 Kings 14:6; 2 Chronicles 25:4; 2 Chronicles 17:9; Nehemiah 9:3; Nehemiah 8:1; Ezra 6:18; Nehemiah 13:1; 2 Kings 22:8-13 ; Psalm 40:7; 1 Samuel 10:25; Nehemiah 8:9; Joshua 8:31,31,34,35


    The Law of Christ is the Moral law written on our hearts and the Law given to us by the Apostles and Christ
    Declared all the counsel of God(Acts 20:26-28)
    Continued in Doctrine of the Apostles(Acts 2:42)
    Hold Fast to the Doctrine(Titus 1:9)
    Paul has Planted the word(1 Cor 3:6)
    Do the things commanded by the Apostles(2 Thess 3:4,6)
    Hold Fast to the word and Tradtions we have been taught(2 Thess 2:14-17)
    Doctrine of Christ(2 John 9-10)
    Oberserve these things(2 Tim 5:21)
    Be mindful of the words spoken by the prophets and the commandments of the Apostles and Christ(2 Peter 3:1-2, 15-18)
    Keep the sound words given by Paul(2 Timohty 1:13-14)
    Fully known the Doctrine, continue in things learned(2 Tim 3:10, 14-15)
    Laws of God (Rom 13:2,9-10)
    Stablish according to the Gospel and preaching of Christ(Romans 16:25-27)
    Fully preached the Gospel of Christ(Romans 15:19,29)
    Acknowledge things spoken as commandments of the Lord(1 Cor 14:37)
    Gospel received by Revelation of Christ(Gal 1:6-12)
    Christ the same today yesterday and tomorrow, so to is the word of God the same. (Hebrews 13:8-9)
    Keep the Commandments given by Christ(John 14:21,23, Matt 28:20)
    Keep the Ordinances as delivered by the Apostles(1 Cor 11:1-20)
    Holy word of God is of no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21)

    So I'm not sure what you think I was misapplying brother, since everything I said was about:
    A. the Mosaic law being completed and done away with
    B. A new Law of Liberty, faith, and spirit in Christ
    C. Faith and works for justification, and Faith alone for salvation

    So I don't understand what it is you believe me to be saying brother.

    5. His commandments are those listed above, all the commands given by the Apostles and Christ we must keep as it is the law we are all under. It is the Law of Christ.
    As to profaning the Sabbath that is still a sin as the Sabbath is never said to have passed. The Reply won't fit in this response so I will send it in another one.

    God bless and guide you brother
     
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