James White says Luke 23:34 is not inspired Scripture
James White on Luke 23:34 - Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
James White (big surprise;-) is now denying that this saying of Jesus is inspired Scripture (big surprise;-) He says "there is a huge amount of doubt attached to it" and he equally denies that John 7:53 to John 8:11 (the woman taken in adultery) is inspired Scripture along with John 5:4 and Mark 16:9-20. He says he would not preach on these things but would skip them.
He has a short 6 minute video done in 2014 where he tells us these verses are not part of the inspired Bible and he would not preach on it. He also would omit John 7:53 through John 8:11, and Mark 16:9-20, John 5:4 and now Luke 23:34 from his preaching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWiY32bb2K8
Luke 23:34 - "THEN SAID JESUS, FATHER, FORGIVE THEM; FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots."
This is the reading found in the Majority of all Greek manuscripts as well as Sinaiticus original and Sinaiticus 2nd correction, A, C, D correction, E, F, G, H, K, L, M, Q, S, U, V, X, Gamma, Delta, Lambda, Pi, Psi, the Old Latin copies air, b, c, e, f, ff2, l, r1, the Latin Vulgate, the Syriac Peshitta, Curetonian, Harclean, Palestinian, some Coptic Boharic and Sahidic copies and well as the ancient Armenian and Ethiopian versions. The whole sentence was originally in the Sinaitic mss. Then some scribe removed it, and then another scribe put the words back in the text.
However Vaticanus omits all the capital lettered words "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." But it has the rest of the verse - "And they parted his raiment, and cast lots."
Every Bible version I am aware of includes these words in Luke 23:44 but the NRSV 1989 puts them in [[double brackets]] and the Holman Standard [brackets the words] to indicate doubt as to their authenticity.
The latest Nestle-Aland 28th edition and the UBS 4th edition critical texts both [[put the words in double brackets]] indicating serious doubt as to their authenticity. So they may very well disappear from the up and coming "late$t in $cholar$hip Advance$ in the future.
Meanwhile the RSV, ESV and NIV all cast doubt as to whether or not they are God's inspired words by footnoting: "Some early manuscripts do not have this sentence."
The Catholic Connection
We see the same pattern among the Catholic versions. The earlier Douay-Rheims 1582 and the 1950 Douay and even the 1968 Jerusalem bible all include the words with NO footnotes. But then the 1970 St. Joseph NAB and the New Jerusalem bible 1985 [bracket] the words (St. Joseph) and footnote (New Jerusalem) "This verse is retained despite its omission by some good and diverse ancient authorities."
Dan Wallace's NET version also includes the words but he has these mind numbing, typical Bible agnostic mumblings that cast doubt on whether or not these words are inspired Scripture or not.
He says: "Many important mss (Ì75 א1 B D* W Θ 070 579 1241 pc sys sa) lack v. 34a. It is included in א*,2(A) C D2 L Ψ 0250 Ë1,(13) 33 Ï lat syc, p, h. It also fits a major Lukan theme of forgiving the enemies (6:27-36), and it has a parallel in Stephens response in Acts 7:60. The lack of parallels in the other Gospels argues also for inclusion here. On the other hand, the fact of the parallel in Acts 7:60 may well have prompted early scribes to insert the saying in Lukes Gospel alone. Further, there is the great difficulty of explaining why early and diverse witnesses lack the saying. A decision is difficult, but even those who regard the verse as inauthentic literarily often consider it to be authentic historically. For this reason it has been placed in single brackets in the translation."
In other words, maybe it is, maybe it isn't; "a decision is difficult", it might be "literally inauthentic" but it is "historically authentic" - Say what? As long as they can cast doubt with their "Yea, hath God said...?" footnotes, the Jesuits have accomplished their goal of overthrowing the final authority of God's words.
Numerous early church writers made allusion to this verse -
New Testament Greek
Archelaus Acts of the Disputation with the Heresiarch Manes: and here, our Lord Jesus prayed that the Pharisees might be pardoned, when He said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.[531]
Clementine Homily XI: prayed to the Father that the sin of those who slew Him might be forgiven, saying, `Father, forgive them their sins, for they know not what they do.[8]
Constitutions of the Holy Apostles Book II: For our Saviour Himself entreated His Father for those who had sinned, as it is written in the Gospel: "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.[88]
Constitutions of the Holy Apostles Book V: And a little afterward, when He had cried with a loud voice, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do,[114]
Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians: but prayed for His enemies, "Father, forgive them; they know not what they do.[82]
Gospel of Nicodemus I The Acts of Pilate: Then Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying: Father, let not this sin stand against them; for they know not what they do.[106]
Irenaeus Against Heresies Book III: And from this fact, that He exclaimed upon the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do,[348]
Of the Journeyings of Philip the Apostle: was made to drink gall and vinegar, and said, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.[14]
Recognitions of Clement VI: Wherefore, in short, the Master Himself, when He was being led to the cross by those who knew Him not, prayed the Father for His murderers, and said, `Father, forgive their sin, for they know not what they do!'[7]
Jerome Epistle 120 To Hedibia
http://m.ccel.org/.../files/jerome_hedibia_2_trans.htm
We even see that the Savior loved this city so much that the misfortunes which threatened it elicited tears from His eyes; when He was crucified, He said to His Father, Forgive them, Father, because they do know what they do.
(English translation by James Snapp, Jr. via Google Translate)
Ambrose in the 4th century: The Prayer of Job and David
Seven Exegetical Works (The Fathers of the Church, Volume 65) - Saint Ambrose - Google Books
"Indeed, had they known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of majesty and would never still be pursuing their Jewish follies. They, then, are the ones who know not. For this reason also the Lord Jesus says in the Gospel, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Jerome Epistle 120 To Hedibiahttp://m.ccel.org/.../files/jerome_hedibia_2_trans.htm
We even see that the Savior loved this city so much that the misfortunes which threatened it elicited tears from His eyes; when He was crucified, He said to His Father, Forgive them, Father, because they do know what they do.
St. Aurelius Augustine
"Let them be turned backward and put to shame that wish me evil." "Turned backwards." Let us not take this in a bad sense. He wishes them well; and it is His voice, who said from the Cross, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." Wherefore then doth he, say to them, that they should return "backwards"? . (Exposition of Ps. 40, in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series 1, Vol. 8.)
Chrysostom (375)
"For indeed . . . great miracles did He show forth, when lifted up, turning aside the sunbeams, bursting the rocks, raising the dead, frightening by dreams the wife of him that was judging Him, at the very judgment showing forth all meekness (which was of power not less than miracles to gain them over), forewarning them of countless things in the judgment hall; on the very cross crying aloud, "Father, forgive them their sin." (Homily LXXIX on Matthew, Nicene and Post-Nicene, series 1, Vol. 10.)
Hippolytus of Rome
"Wherefore "they that sit in the gate spoke against me," for they crucified me without the gate. "And they that drink sang against me," that is, (they who drink wine) at the feast of the passover. "But as for me, in my prayer unto Thee, O Lord, I said, Father, forgive them," namely the Gentiles, because it is the time for favor with Gentiles." ("Expository Treatise against the Jews," Ante-Nicene, Vol. 5.)
St. Jerome
"I can return bite for bite, if I like; when hurt myself, I can fix my teeth in my opponent. I too have had a liberal education. . . . But I prefer to be a disciple of Him who says, "I gave my back to the smiters... I hid not my face from shame and spitting." When He was reviled He reviled not again. After the buffeting, the cross, the scourge, the blasphemies, at the very last He prayed for His crucifiers, saying, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." I, too, pardon the error of a brother." ("Letter 50: To Domnio," Nicene and Post-Nicene, series 2, Vol. 6.)
Pseudo-Clementines
"For the Teacher Himself, being nailed to the cross, prayed to the Father that the sin of those who slew Him might be forgiven, saying, "Father, forgive them their sins, for they know not what they do." They also therefore, being imitators of the Teacher in their sufferings, pray for those who contrive them, as they have been taught." (Clementine Homilies," Homily XI, Ch. 20, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 8).
All these words are found in the Latin Vulgate 405 A.D., the Anglo-Saxon Gospels Corpus Christi mss. Aelfric circa 1000 A.D. - " Ða cwæð se hælend. fæder. forgyf him forþam hig nyton hwæt hig doð; Soðlice hig dældon hys reaf & wurpun hlótu." Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Bishops' Bibld 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587, the Douay Rheims 1610, and in the more modern versions like the RV 1881, ASV 1901, NASB 1995 (with NO doubting footnotes), RSV 1971, [[NRSV]] 1989, ESV 2011, NIV 1973-2011, [Holman 2009], NKJV 1982, the Modern Greek Bible with NO brackets - " Ο δε Ιησους ελεγε· Πατερ, συγχωρησον αυτους· διοτι δεν εξευρουσι τι πραττουσι. Διαμεριζομενοι δε τα ιματια αυτου, εβαλον κληρον.- "and the Modern Hebrew Bible (again, with NO brackets) - "ויאמר ישוע אבי סלח להם כי לא ידעו מה הם עשים ויחלקו בגדיו להם ויפילו גורל׃
All the words - "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." are also found in the following Bible translations: Darby 1890, Young's 1898, New Berkeley Version in Modern English 1969, the Amplified Bible 1987, Word of Yah 1993, Complete Jewish Bible 1998, A Conservative Version 2005, Complete Apostle's Bible 2005, English Majority Text 2009, Hebraic Transliteration Scriptures 2010, Online Interlinear 2010 by Andre de Mol, Names of God Bible 2011, Orthodox Jewish Bible 2011, Biblos Interlinear Bible 2011, [The Voice 2012], World English Bible 2012, The Interlinear Hebrew-Greek Scriptures 2012, New Living Translation 2013 and the International Standard Version 2014.
James White is getting loopier and loopier. And he is a professional liar. He SAYS he believes The Bible IS the infallible words of God, but ask him where to get a copy of this infallible Bible he PROFESSES to believe in and he will NEVER tell you.
Now he is "correcting" even the versions like the NASB, NIV, ESV, NET, Holman, NKJV; in fact, EVERY BIBLE out there that has ever been printed. All of these bible versions contain Mark 16:9-20 and John 7:53-8:11 in them, yet James White doesnt believe they are true Scripture and he would just skip over them.
James White has clearly made HIMSELF his own final authority, and in his mind, you have to go to HIM to find out what God REALLY said or didnt say. May God deliver us from men like James White.
James White is getting loopier and loopier, and he is a professional liar. He gets paid to lie to people by telling them he believes The Bible IS the infallible words of God, but ask him where to get a copy of this infallible Bible he PROFESSES to believe in and he will NEVER tell you.
Now he is "correcting" even the versions like the NASB, NIV, ESV, NET, Holman, NKJV; in fact, virtually EVERY BIBLE out there that has ever been printed. All of these bible versions contain Mark 16:9-20 and John 7:53-8:11 in them, yet James White doesnt believe they are true Scripture and he would just skip over them.
A few modern versions have actually completely removed the words "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." from their text. Among these are what is ironically called Faithful New Testament 2009 by William Zeifler, Conservative Bible 2011 by Andrew Schlafly and the Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010 by Paul Becker.
James White has clearly made HIMSELF his own final authority, and in his mind, you have to go to HIM to find out what God REALLY said or didnt say.
May God deliver us from men like James White.
For more about professional bible agnostic James White see "James White - the Protestant Pope of the new Vatican Versions" here -
James White P.Pope VV - Another King James Bible Believer
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8
All of grace, believing The Book,
Will Kinney
Return to Articles - KJB Articles - Another King James Bible Believer
James White on Luke 23:34 - Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
James White (big surprise;-) is now denying that this saying of Jesus is inspired Scripture (big surprise;-) He says "there is a huge amount of doubt attached to it" and he equally denies that John 7:53 to John 8:11 (the woman taken in adultery) is inspired Scripture along with John 5:4 and Mark 16:9-20. He says he would not preach on these things but would skip them.
He has a short 6 minute video done in 2014 where he tells us these verses are not part of the inspired Bible and he would not preach on it. He also would omit John 7:53 through John 8:11, and Mark 16:9-20, John 5:4 and now Luke 23:34 from his preaching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWiY32bb2K8
Luke 23:34 - "THEN SAID JESUS, FATHER, FORGIVE THEM; FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots."
This is the reading found in the Majority of all Greek manuscripts as well as Sinaiticus original and Sinaiticus 2nd correction, A, C, D correction, E, F, G, H, K, L, M, Q, S, U, V, X, Gamma, Delta, Lambda, Pi, Psi, the Old Latin copies air, b, c, e, f, ff2, l, r1, the Latin Vulgate, the Syriac Peshitta, Curetonian, Harclean, Palestinian, some Coptic Boharic and Sahidic copies and well as the ancient Armenian and Ethiopian versions. The whole sentence was originally in the Sinaitic mss. Then some scribe removed it, and then another scribe put the words back in the text.
However Vaticanus omits all the capital lettered words "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." But it has the rest of the verse - "And they parted his raiment, and cast lots."
Every Bible version I am aware of includes these words in Luke 23:44 but the NRSV 1989 puts them in [[double brackets]] and the Holman Standard [brackets the words] to indicate doubt as to their authenticity.
The latest Nestle-Aland 28th edition and the UBS 4th edition critical texts both [[put the words in double brackets]] indicating serious doubt as to their authenticity. So they may very well disappear from the up and coming "late$t in $cholar$hip Advance$ in the future.
Meanwhile the RSV, ESV and NIV all cast doubt as to whether or not they are God's inspired words by footnoting: "Some early manuscripts do not have this sentence."
The Catholic Connection
We see the same pattern among the Catholic versions. The earlier Douay-Rheims 1582 and the 1950 Douay and even the 1968 Jerusalem bible all include the words with NO footnotes. But then the 1970 St. Joseph NAB and the New Jerusalem bible 1985 [bracket] the words (St. Joseph) and footnote (New Jerusalem) "This verse is retained despite its omission by some good and diverse ancient authorities."
Dan Wallace's NET version also includes the words but he has these mind numbing, typical Bible agnostic mumblings that cast doubt on whether or not these words are inspired Scripture or not.
He says: "Many important mss (Ì75 א1 B D* W Θ 070 579 1241 pc sys sa) lack v. 34a. It is included in א*,2(A) C D2 L Ψ 0250 Ë1,(13) 33 Ï lat syc, p, h. It also fits a major Lukan theme of forgiving the enemies (6:27-36), and it has a parallel in Stephens response in Acts 7:60. The lack of parallels in the other Gospels argues also for inclusion here. On the other hand, the fact of the parallel in Acts 7:60 may well have prompted early scribes to insert the saying in Lukes Gospel alone. Further, there is the great difficulty of explaining why early and diverse witnesses lack the saying. A decision is difficult, but even those who regard the verse as inauthentic literarily often consider it to be authentic historically. For this reason it has been placed in single brackets in the translation."
In other words, maybe it is, maybe it isn't; "a decision is difficult", it might be "literally inauthentic" but it is "historically authentic" - Say what? As long as they can cast doubt with their "Yea, hath God said...?" footnotes, the Jesuits have accomplished their goal of overthrowing the final authority of God's words.
Numerous early church writers made allusion to this verse -
New Testament Greek
Archelaus Acts of the Disputation with the Heresiarch Manes: and here, our Lord Jesus prayed that the Pharisees might be pardoned, when He said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.[531]
Clementine Homily XI: prayed to the Father that the sin of those who slew Him might be forgiven, saying, `Father, forgive them their sins, for they know not what they do.[8]
Constitutions of the Holy Apostles Book II: For our Saviour Himself entreated His Father for those who had sinned, as it is written in the Gospel: "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.[88]
Constitutions of the Holy Apostles Book V: And a little afterward, when He had cried with a loud voice, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do,[114]
Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians: but prayed for His enemies, "Father, forgive them; they know not what they do.[82]
Gospel of Nicodemus I The Acts of Pilate: Then Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying: Father, let not this sin stand against them; for they know not what they do.[106]
Irenaeus Against Heresies Book III: And from this fact, that He exclaimed upon the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do,[348]
Of the Journeyings of Philip the Apostle: was made to drink gall and vinegar, and said, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.[14]
Recognitions of Clement VI: Wherefore, in short, the Master Himself, when He was being led to the cross by those who knew Him not, prayed the Father for His murderers, and said, `Father, forgive their sin, for they know not what they do!'[7]
Jerome Epistle 120 To Hedibia
http://m.ccel.org/.../files/jerome_hedibia_2_trans.htm
We even see that the Savior loved this city so much that the misfortunes which threatened it elicited tears from His eyes; when He was crucified, He said to His Father, Forgive them, Father, because they do know what they do.
(English translation by James Snapp, Jr. via Google Translate)
Ambrose in the 4th century: The Prayer of Job and David
Seven Exegetical Works (The Fathers of the Church, Volume 65) - Saint Ambrose - Google Books
"Indeed, had they known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of majesty and would never still be pursuing their Jewish follies. They, then, are the ones who know not. For this reason also the Lord Jesus says in the Gospel, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Jerome Epistle 120 To Hedibiahttp://m.ccel.org/.../files/jerome_hedibia_2_trans.htm
We even see that the Savior loved this city so much that the misfortunes which threatened it elicited tears from His eyes; when He was crucified, He said to His Father, Forgive them, Father, because they do know what they do.
St. Aurelius Augustine
"Let them be turned backward and put to shame that wish me evil." "Turned backwards." Let us not take this in a bad sense. He wishes them well; and it is His voice, who said from the Cross, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." Wherefore then doth he, say to them, that they should return "backwards"? . (Exposition of Ps. 40, in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series 1, Vol. 8.)
Chrysostom (375)
"For indeed . . . great miracles did He show forth, when lifted up, turning aside the sunbeams, bursting the rocks, raising the dead, frightening by dreams the wife of him that was judging Him, at the very judgment showing forth all meekness (which was of power not less than miracles to gain them over), forewarning them of countless things in the judgment hall; on the very cross crying aloud, "Father, forgive them their sin." (Homily LXXIX on Matthew, Nicene and Post-Nicene, series 1, Vol. 10.)
Hippolytus of Rome
"Wherefore "they that sit in the gate spoke against me," for they crucified me without the gate. "And they that drink sang against me," that is, (they who drink wine) at the feast of the passover. "But as for me, in my prayer unto Thee, O Lord, I said, Father, forgive them," namely the Gentiles, because it is the time for favor with Gentiles." ("Expository Treatise against the Jews," Ante-Nicene, Vol. 5.)
St. Jerome
"I can return bite for bite, if I like; when hurt myself, I can fix my teeth in my opponent. I too have had a liberal education. . . . But I prefer to be a disciple of Him who says, "I gave my back to the smiters... I hid not my face from shame and spitting." When He was reviled He reviled not again. After the buffeting, the cross, the scourge, the blasphemies, at the very last He prayed for His crucifiers, saying, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." I, too, pardon the error of a brother." ("Letter 50: To Domnio," Nicene and Post-Nicene, series 2, Vol. 6.)
Pseudo-Clementines
"For the Teacher Himself, being nailed to the cross, prayed to the Father that the sin of those who slew Him might be forgiven, saying, "Father, forgive them their sins, for they know not what they do." They also therefore, being imitators of the Teacher in their sufferings, pray for those who contrive them, as they have been taught." (Clementine Homilies," Homily XI, Ch. 20, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 8).
All these words are found in the Latin Vulgate 405 A.D., the Anglo-Saxon Gospels Corpus Christi mss. Aelfric circa 1000 A.D. - " Ða cwæð se hælend. fæder. forgyf him forþam hig nyton hwæt hig doð; Soðlice hig dældon hys reaf & wurpun hlótu." Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Bishops' Bibld 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587, the Douay Rheims 1610, and in the more modern versions like the RV 1881, ASV 1901, NASB 1995 (with NO doubting footnotes), RSV 1971, [[NRSV]] 1989, ESV 2011, NIV 1973-2011, [Holman 2009], NKJV 1982, the Modern Greek Bible with NO brackets - " Ο δε Ιησους ελεγε· Πατερ, συγχωρησον αυτους· διοτι δεν εξευρουσι τι πραττουσι. Διαμεριζομενοι δε τα ιματια αυτου, εβαλον κληρον.- "and the Modern Hebrew Bible (again, with NO brackets) - "ויאמר ישוע אבי סלח להם כי לא ידעו מה הם עשים ויחלקו בגדיו להם ויפילו גורל׃
All the words - "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." are also found in the following Bible translations: Darby 1890, Young's 1898, New Berkeley Version in Modern English 1969, the Amplified Bible 1987, Word of Yah 1993, Complete Jewish Bible 1998, A Conservative Version 2005, Complete Apostle's Bible 2005, English Majority Text 2009, Hebraic Transliteration Scriptures 2010, Online Interlinear 2010 by Andre de Mol, Names of God Bible 2011, Orthodox Jewish Bible 2011, Biblos Interlinear Bible 2011, [The Voice 2012], World English Bible 2012, The Interlinear Hebrew-Greek Scriptures 2012, New Living Translation 2013 and the International Standard Version 2014.
James White is getting loopier and loopier. And he is a professional liar. He SAYS he believes The Bible IS the infallible words of God, but ask him where to get a copy of this infallible Bible he PROFESSES to believe in and he will NEVER tell you.
Now he is "correcting" even the versions like the NASB, NIV, ESV, NET, Holman, NKJV; in fact, EVERY BIBLE out there that has ever been printed. All of these bible versions contain Mark 16:9-20 and John 7:53-8:11 in them, yet James White doesnt believe they are true Scripture and he would just skip over them.
James White has clearly made HIMSELF his own final authority, and in his mind, you have to go to HIM to find out what God REALLY said or didnt say. May God deliver us from men like James White.
James White is getting loopier and loopier, and he is a professional liar. He gets paid to lie to people by telling them he believes The Bible IS the infallible words of God, but ask him where to get a copy of this infallible Bible he PROFESSES to believe in and he will NEVER tell you.
Now he is "correcting" even the versions like the NASB, NIV, ESV, NET, Holman, NKJV; in fact, virtually EVERY BIBLE out there that has ever been printed. All of these bible versions contain Mark 16:9-20 and John 7:53-8:11 in them, yet James White doesnt believe they are true Scripture and he would just skip over them.
A few modern versions have actually completely removed the words "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." from their text. Among these are what is ironically called Faithful New Testament 2009 by William Zeifler, Conservative Bible 2011 by Andrew Schlafly and the Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010 by Paul Becker.
James White has clearly made HIMSELF his own final authority, and in his mind, you have to go to HIM to find out what God REALLY said or didnt say.
May God deliver us from men like James White.
For more about professional bible agnostic James White see "James White - the Protestant Pope of the new Vatican Versions" here -
James White P.Pope VV - Another King James Bible Believer
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8
All of grace, believing The Book,
Will Kinney
Return to Articles - KJB Articles - Another King James Bible Believer
