James Mattis’s Final Protest Against the President

mark kennedy

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Trump is tossing any credibility out the window in order to cater to anyone he thinks might support him. What on earth makes him favor Russia in such stark terms is a mystery to me, it sure looks like Matthis is doing the only honorable thing under the circumstances.
 
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Hank77

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Hank77

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That's true, so why do we continually keep troops in danger in foreign engagements with no prospect of it actually accomplishing anything useful? Even when we achieve a realistic objective , like removing Saddam or the Taliban from power, we then remain in the situation and start pursuing unrealistic objectives that unnecessarily keep our soldiers at risk for decades rather than returning home after achieving what we set out to do.
Go do some reading about what happens when a government is removed without people who are strong and competent to take it's place. People who are respected by the citizens and the military.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Thanks, I wouldn't take anything like this to be a fact, just people gossiping.

I googled it. There was more than this source. I first heard it on one off the cable news channels. Anyway, Mattis and Tillerson are no longer there, and that isn't gossip. Well Mattis will be there at the end of the year I think.
 
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The Barbarian

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Except for the fact he was voted in by the people...

Actually, another candidate got more votes than Trump did. He was voted in by the electoral college, not the people, who chose someone else. It's a glitch in our system that happens every now and then. Trump never had the support of the people.

but I guess that doesn't matter?

Not to Trump, anyway.
 
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tulc

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Actually, another candidate got more votes than Trump did. He was voted in by the electoral college, not the people, who chose someone else. It's a glitch in our system that happens every now and then.
...but only for Republican Presidential candidates, there's never been a Democrat who became President like that. :wave:

Trump never had the support of the people.
But he may have had slight chance of winning that support if he'd been willing to admit he may not have been the one who got the most votes but he was willing to work to earn the support. But instead he immediately started claiming "I would have won the popular vote to if it wasn't for all those illegal voters." :sigh:


Not to Trump, anyway.
Agreed. :)
tulc(just back from the thrift store with a lot of ceramic coffee cups) :oldthumbsup:
 
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The Barbarian

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...but only for Republican Presidential candidates, there's never been a Democrat who became President like that. :wave:

(Barbarian checks)

Turns out, there's not. But it's not because the republicans are corrupt and the democrats are pure. Republicans tend to be stronger in small rural states that have more electoral votes than an absolutely proportional division would give you.

So in a close race, it's more likely that the losing candidate in terms of support of American voters, will be the winner in terms of the electoral college, and be a republican. And that's the one that counts.
 
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Hank77

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I googled it. There was more than this source. I first heard it on one off the cable news channels. Anyway, Mattis and Tillerson are no longer there, and that isn't gossip. Well Mattis will be there at the end of the year I think.
John Kelly will be there until the end of the year, I think, and Mattis said he will stay into February. That gives Trump and the Congress time to confirm a replacement and not leave that position empty or filled by someone on a temporary basis.
 
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NW82

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Actually, another candidate got more votes than Trump did. He was voted in by the electoral college, not the people, who chose someone else. It's a glitch in our system that happens every now and then. Trump never had the support of the people.



Not to Trump, anyway.
This shows how little you know of the United States electoral system and the reason the founders put it in place. So yes. Trump was voted in by the people of the United States. The electoral system was never intended to be a popular vote system. But then again you may also think the United States is a democracy....it isn't.
 
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The Barbarian

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Barbarian observes:
Actually, another candidate got more votes than Trump did. He was voted in by the electoral college, not the people, who chose someone else. It's a glitch in our system that happens every now and then. Trump never had the support of the people.

This shows how little you know of the United States electoral system

You're not alone. A lot of people are shocked to learn that a candidate can lose the popular vote by millions of votes, but still get elected president. You see now why it was a bad idea to sleep in social studies classes?

So yes. Trump was voted in by the people of the United States.

No. The choice of the American people got almost three million more votes than Trump did. Every now and then the system glitches and someone with the fewest votes wins.

The electoral system was never intended to be a popular vote system.

It was intended to give each state a proportional number of votes to match the number of people in each state. Because the number of electoral votes doesn't exactly match the populations in each state, sometimes the loser of the popular vote is the winner of the election. That's not what the founders intended, it just works out that way sometimes.

But then again you may also think the United States is a democracy....it isn't.

Well, let's take a look...

Definition of democracy

1a : government by the people especially : rule of the majority


b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections


2 : a political unit that has a democratic government
Definition of DEMOCRACY

So let's see what the law of the land has to say about it...


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Constitution of the United States - We the People

And there you are. You've failed to get one of the most basic principles of American Government.


It is understandable why a Trump follower would find all this to be objectionable, though.
 
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☦Marius☦

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Who won?
Trump
Putin
ISIS
Iran
Turkey
Assad

Who lost?
Israel
Our Kurdish allies
Iraq
America

Putin's investment is really paying off for him.

So basically the good guys won, with the exception of Turkey, which I'm not sure why is on that list.

Also how does ISIS win? It doesn't exist anymore thanks to Trump and Putin eliminating it.
 
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tulc

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(snip)

Also how does ISIS win? It doesn't exist anymore thanks to Trump and Putin eliminating it.
...I think they forgot to tell ISIS they don't exist any more. Those ISIS guys, it takes more then President Trump saying it to convince them of something, unlike some parts of President Trumps base. :sorry:
tulc(is just sayn') :sunglasses:
 
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The Barbarian

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So basically the good guys won,

If you think Iran, Putin, ISIS, and Trump are good guys, and America, the Kurds, and Israel are bad guys.

with the exception of Turkey, which I'm not sure why is on that list.

The Turkish dictator hates the Kurds.

Also how does ISIS win?

The offensive ordered by Obama had them reeling. Obama's plan, worked out with our Iraqi and Kurdish allies, was for them to do the ground operations, and for us to do intelligence and air support. It worked extremely well. For a while, Trump carried on with the plan. ISIS was down to about 20,000 fighters when Trump called for a retreat, according to the CIA.

A U.S. retreat will give them time to regroup and fight again.

It doesn't exist anymore

You actually believed Trump? Seriously?

The Foreign Relations chairman said the U.S. was weeks away from launching a ‘major clearing operation’ in the Euphrates River Valley when Trump decided to withdraw from Syria.
The chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee revealed on Friday that the U.S. military was planning a “major clearing operation” targeting ISIS before President Donald Trump decided abruptly this week to withdraw U.S. forces from Syria.

“One thing that hasn’t been reported is, we were six weeks away from a major clearing operation that has been planned for a long time. I got briefed on this a year ago—with ISIS in the Euphrates River Valley,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) said Friday on Capitol Hill, referring to the area where ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is believed to be hiding.

Trump’s decision, which at least partly led to the resignation of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, has rattled congressional Republicans, who have questioned the wisdom of withdrawing from Syria before ISIS is fully eradicated. In defending his decision, Trump claimed that the extremist caliphate has been defeated, but Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), a top Trump ally, called that claim “fake news,” and said America’s adversaries will benefit from Trump’s order.
Trump’s Abrupt Syria Withdrawal Thwarted ‘Major’ Operation Targeting ISIS, Sen. Bob Corker Says



U.S. Officials Try to Slow Trump’s ‘Everybody Out’ of Syria Order
President Donald Trump may have declared the so-called Islamic State “defeated,” sparking talk of a U.S. withdrawal from the former ISIS stronghold of northeastern Syria. But administration officials, several of whom were taken by surprise, indicated an effort was underway to stop or slow a pullout.

“U.S. forces will continue the fight against ISIS,” a White House official who requested anonymity told The Daily Beast.

The future scope of that fight is less clear than ever. Some within the administration said Trump had indeed reached a decision to leave Syria. “The president said ‘Everybody out,’” a senior administration official told The Daily Beast.

Confusion about the U.S. goals in Syria and the sustainability of a strategy to achieve them has been a consistent feature of 2018, a year in which the president and various senior officials have expanded and contracted the goals at least four times.
Trump’s Abrupt Syria Withdrawal Thwarted ‘Major’ Operation Targeting ISIS, Sen. Bob Corker Says

Get used to it; Trump lies to you, because he figures you're not smart enough to find out for yourself.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Given that Assad, with some help from Putin, did most of the fighting against ISIS, a victory for them is, by definition a defeat for ISIS. US intervention probably helped ISIS more than hurting it, and Israel did absolutely nothing.

So no need to worry your pretty little heads. Putin and Assad will take it from here.
 
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The Barbarian

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Given that Assad, with some help from Putin, did most of the fighting against ISIS,

Russia was losing ground against ISIS in Syria, when the Iraqis and Kurds, with US air support, were driving them out of one city after another in Iraq. You were really lied to about that. And it wasn't just battlefield. US forces frequently did raids into ISIS area, taking out enemy facilities and killing ISIS leaders.

ISIS expands hold in Syria with control of Palmyra ruins
May 21, 2015.

Fears mounted over the fate of one of the Mideast's most prominent archaeological sites after Islamic State militants overran the historic Syrian town of Palmyra, seizing control Thursday of its temples, tombs and colonnades within hours.

The takeover also expanded the extremists' hold, making them the single group controlling the most territory in Syria.

"The Syrian regime appears to be in terminal decline, and the Islamic State group in its timing is capitalizing on recent losses by government forces in the north and south," said Amr Al-Azm, an antiquities expert and professor at Shawnee State University in Ohio.

The militants overran the famed archaeological site early Thursday, just hours after seizing the nearby town in central Syria, activists and officials said.

They also captured Palmyra's airport and the notorious Tadmur prison, delivering a startling new defeat for President Bashar Assad, whose forces quickly retreated. Hundreds of Palmyra residents fled the town of 65,000, and many more were trying to escape, said Talal Barazi, the governor of central Homs province, which includes Palmyra.
'Its destiny is dark and dim:' Fears mount over ISIS hold on Palmyra's famed ruins | CBC News

The Russians and Syrians were unable to protect a major Syrian city at the same time that the U.S. and it's allies were taking one city after another from ISIS in Iraq. C'mon

In his campaign against ISIS, President Obama has relied on airstrikes and the training of local fighters as a way to avoid keeping U.S. troops outside the line of fire. But he also needs military teams that can hit the ground in an emergency.

In that gray area stands Delta Force.

Delta Force is the Army's top covert combat unit, with a long history of hunting terrorists and rescuing hostages in war zones around the world. When Kurdish fighters in Iraq heard that ISIS was preparing to execute dozens of captives this week, America sent Delta Force commandos to help.

The raid was a success, resulting in the rescue of 70 hostages. But Delta Force also lost one of its own, 39-year old Master Sergeant Joshua Wheeler, a married father of four.

Behind Delta Force, the Covert Unit That Saved ISIS Captives in Iraq

Our guys are a lot better at this than you think they are.

The US says its special forces have killed a senior Islamic State (IS) member and captured his wife in a rare ground raid in eastern Syria.


Abu Sayyaf helped direct oil, gas and financial operations for IS, as well as holding a military role, said a US Department of Defense statement.

It said forces tried to capture him, but he was killed after engaging them.

It is the first time the US is known to have carried out a ground operation to attack IS within Syria.

The operation was authorised by President Barack Obama and was carried out by forces based in Iraq.

US officials said Abu Sayyaf was Tunisian, with one official telling CNN he was the chief financial officer "of all of [IS]" and that the US had seized "reams of data on how ISIS operates, communicates and earns its money".
US special forces in Syria raid

US intervention probably helped ISIS more than hurting it,

Destroying their troops, taking away their territory, and killing their leaders helped them? How so?

So no need to worry your pretty little heads.

She's really hacked now. Why do you people always get abusive when evidence is presented?
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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The Russians and Syrians were unable to protect a major Syrian city at the same time that the U.S. and it's allies were taking one city after another from ISIS in Iraq. C'mon

With a population of just over 50,000, Palmyra is hardly a major city, and in any case, who controls it now? Whereas Russian airstrikes were instrumental in the liberation of Aleppo, Syria's second largest city. US airstrikes, largely because they were not coordinated with Syrian troops on the ground, could never hope to be as effective. That raises another issue - Russia was the only country that was actually authorized to intervene.

Destroying their troops, taking away their territory, and killing their leaders helped them? How so?



I was referring to the arms that the US supplied to IS - oh, I'm sorry "Syrian rebels".

600_133298.png



She's really hacked now. Why do you people always get abusive when evidence is presented?

I'm not being abusive. I'm merely pointing that Syria doesn't need the United States. Syria's government is reestablishing itself now, and what foreign support it needs can easily be provided by Russia. How was it ever even our fight to begin with?
 
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RDKirk

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That's true, so why do we continually keep troops in danger in foreign engagements with no prospect of it actually accomplishing anything useful? Even when we achieve a realistic objective , like removing Saddam or the Taliban from power, we then remain in the situation and start pursuing unrealistic objectives that unnecessarily keep our soldiers at risk for decades rather than returning home after achieving what we set out to do.

The Middle East is a formidable tangle, particularly when the US government does not honestly address what the true interests of the regional players are.

First and foremost is the 1400-year-long war between the Sunnis and the Shiites. That war has been going on literally since Muhammad died. The Sunni-Shiite war takes precedence over everything else, as far as the Muslims in the Middle East are concerned. Everything they do has that war at the foundation. Everything else is a side-quest, the Sunni-Shiite war is central.

At this point, Saudi Arabia represents the leading Sunni force in this war; Iran represents the leading Shiite force. Syria, Iraq, and Yemen are all fields of battle in this war.

Assad in Syria is an Alawite, which is an Islamic sect allied with the Shiites. The Alawites are a minority sect in Syria that took power and maintained it by force against the Sunni majority. This is similar to the way the Sunni minority in Iraq took and maintained power over the Shiite majority in Iraq.

Turks are Sunni. Saudis are Sunni. They are both allies of the Syrian rebels.

The rebels against Assad are Sunnis. So that rebellion is actually a reflection of the Sunni-Shiite war, with the Iranian Shiites allied to the Assad regime against the rebels and Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

The Saudis also support an extremist Sunni Islam called Wahhabism. Wahhabi Sunnis are responsible for ALL of the Islamic terrorism exported out of the Middle East. ALL of it. All of it.

The Wahhabis are so bat-guano-crazy that even other Muslims are afraid of them--you can easily Google for websites by Muslims of other sects that will tell you how crazy Wahhabis are, and that the Saudis are their primary support. The Saudis finance the spread of Wahhabism, primarily in the West. In masjids all over the US, Canada, Europe, in the prisons, everywhere.

ISIS is also Sunni Wahhabis. The core of ISIS are Sunni fighters from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, from the Chechnyan rebellion, from the Iraq War, and from every other conflict. There has been a cloud of 20,000-30,000 fighters who have no home, teen boys picked up and taught to be fighters, young men and now older men who have never been farmers or shopkeepers, men who know nothing but war.

ISIS are crazy-as-hell, and they scare everyone else, but they are still Sunni, and the Turks and Saudis will never honestly or effectively fight them, because ISIS is also fighting the Shiites.

But because ISIS is Sunni, the Iranians are honestly fighting them. So in the Syrian war, the US is fighting ISIS, as are the Iranians (and the Russians with the Iranians). The US pretends that the Saudis and Turks are on our side, but they aren't. They are actually on the side of ISIS--or rather, they're not going to do what's necessary to wipe out ISIS, and they're not going to allow the Iranians to ever wipe out ISIS.

And the US has also been helping the Saudis fight the Shiite rebels in Yemen (who are supported by Iran). Essentially the US and Russia are both proxies of the Saudis and the Iranians in the Sunni-Shiite war.

So why is that? Why is the US a willing proxy of the Saudis? That goes back to 1972, when Richard Nixon took the US off the gold standard and allowed US currency to float against other world currencies. (Now, that can get into some conspiracy theories about the Fed and world bankers...and there might be some truth to that.)

But Nixon hedged his bet by making a deal with Saudi Arabia called the "petrodollar agreement." You can Google for it, but essentially the Saudis agreed to accept only US dollars for the sale of their oil to any nations. In order to buy Saudi oil, other nations must first buy US dollars. So that keeps the value of the US dollar artificially inflated against other currencies. In return, the US agreed to provide continuous protection and military support to Saudi Arabia. That is why the US rushed immediately into the Persian Gulf War when it looked like Saddam Hussein was going to invade Saudi Arabia.

And because the US is in lock-step with the Saudis, that puts the US in opposition to Iran far beyond what is necessary, because the US is just a sock-puppet (for the sake of money) for Saudi Arabia in the Sunni-Shiite war.
 
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NW82

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Barbarian observes:
Actually, another candidate got more votes than Trump did. He was voted in by the electoral college, not the people, who chose someone else. It's a glitch in our system that happens every now and then. Trump never had the support of the people.



You're not alone. A lot of people are shocked to learn that a candidate can lose the popular vote by millions of votes, but still get elected president. You see now why it was a bad idea to sleep in social studies classes?



No. The choice of the American people got almost three million more votes than Trump did. Every now and then the system glitches and someone with the fewest votes wins.



It was intended to give each state a proportional number of votes to match the number of people in each state. Because the number of electoral votes doesn't exactly match the populations in each state, sometimes the loser of the popular vote is the winner of the election. That's not what the founders intended, it just works out that way sometimes.



Well, let's take a look...

Definition of democracy

1a : government by the people especially : rule of the majority


b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections


2 : a political unit that has a democratic government
Definition of DEMOCRACY

So let's see what the law of the land has to say about it...


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Constitution of the United States - We the People

And there you are. You've failed to get one of the most basic principles of American Government.


It is understandable why a Trump follower would find all this to be objectionable, though.
Most of what you said does not merit a response as you clearly do not understand. The United States is a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy. Go look it up. Also you quote the preamble to the Constitution, which is not law, the actual amendments are the law. Next time be sure you have a clear understanding so you don't look foolish.
 
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