James Disproves Free Will

[JacksBratt]

It has everything to do with it. Someone who is spiritually dead cannot please God. So the claim to a free will choice unto salvation before one has been regenerated is not possible, biblically speaking. Remember, God's will is being done on earth as it has ALREADY been done in heaven.

Nope... nothing to do with free will. The spiritually dead have chosen to reject Christ. Their choice... Now, they could choose to accept Him, or not... Free will.

 

[JacksBratt]

I disagree with the idea that "non believers and believers are both capable of the same depth of love".

The lost cannot LOVE God with that desperately wicked heart of stone, but believers can because they have had that stoney heart removed and replaced with a receptive heart that Does Love God. That new heart is capable of loving God fully whereas the old heart cant love God at all.

Correction... The lost just "don't" love God.
Again... this is for another thread. Nothing to do with the OP..

 

[JacksBratt]

The will is dead to spiritual discernment and cannot recognize the true Christ. It can only form an idol to worship of what it thinks Christ should be.

I disagree. The spiritually dead are well aware of the wrong that they do. We are all well aware and possess the knowledge of morals... right and wrong.

The spiritually dead just don't believe in Christ, heaven, hell or the need for salvation. They reject Christ.. by choice.

 

[JacksBratt]

So you think your "own" "genuine" feelings, thoughts and deeds are substantial to the same degree that they would be with God doing them in us? In my experience, I am so flippant, so emotional and fickle, so weak, so lacking in integrity, understanding and knowledge, not to mention wisdom, that "my" decision to "accept him" is entirely questionable; no, brother, only by the gift of God --the action of his Spirit within me, making me a new creation-- is my faith made genuine. It is HIS work, and though it consumes me to do it, it is HIM doing it.

I think all mentally sane humans are born with the same capacity to love... They show it differently.

I do not believe that an unbeliever loves their children, husband, wife, mother, father... "loved ones" any less than a believer does.

They just flat out don't love God, or care to.

You look at any nation... any group of humans... no matter who they are... hurt one of their loved ones and you will pay...

 

[JacksBratt]

Sorry but your will is NEVER Free.

What a sad state of mind.

 

[Mark Quayle]

What a sad state of mind.

Sad for those who reject God. Pure joy for those who have freedom in Christ, bondservants of Christ.

 

[Dave L]

I disagree. The spiritually dead are well aware of the wrong that they do. We are all well aware and possess the knowledge of morals... right and wrong.

The spiritually dead just don't believe in Christ, heaven, hell or the need for salvation. They reject Christ.. by choice.

But they cannot know the true Christ unless born again.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think all mentally sane humans are born with the same capacity to love... They show it differently.

I do not believe that an unbeliever loves their children, husband, wife, mother, father... "loved ones" any less than a believer does.

They just flat out don't love God, or care to.

You look at any nation... any group of humans... no matter who they are... hurt one of their loved ones and you will pay...

I don't wish to insult you, but I know that the point of view that God gives, makes love fuller, and stronger, more constant, less fitful, and with more compassion, yet more circumspect and wise.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Nope... nothing to do with free will. The spiritually dead have chosen to reject Christ. Their choice... Now, they could choose to accept Him, or not... Free will.

How can you know that they could? Just theoretically?--since they never do, always rejecting, until God puts it in them to choose him.


"7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so." Romans 8

 

[Petros2015]

“But the tongue can no man tame;"

No man, true, but wives can tame them pretty quick

 

[JacksBratt]

Sad for those who reject God. Pure joy for those who have freedom in Christ, bondservants of Christ.

How do you reject God... If you haven't got the free will to choose to do so?

 

[JacksBratt]

But they cannot know the true Christ unless born again.

I agree....

 

[JacksBratt]

I don't wish to insult you, but I know that the point of view that God gives, makes love fuller, and more intense, and with more compassion, yet more circumspect and wise.

I don't wish to insult you but.... I don't love any deeper or purer, now, than when I was an unbeliever.

I think it is an insult to say to a non believer that they cannot love as well as you can.

 

[JacksBratt]

How can you know that they could? Just theoretically?--since they never do, always rejecting, until God puts it in them to choose him.


"7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so." Romans 8

You just said that they are "always rejecting".... This takes free will.

 

[Mark Quayle]

How do you reject God... If you haven't got the free will to choose to do so?

My very point: If that is what is meant by free will, "mere choice, and real at that, with consequences"-- but somehow that gets sloughed into meaning "sovereign, independent of God's causes and purposes."

Those who reject Christ will reject him, and cannot receive him because they WILL NOT.

 

[jerry kelso]

James is saying believers cannot control the tongue. Why so many moderators on the forums?

davel,

1. Can you you try to be consistent to the immediate context and the rest of the scriptures that harmonize with the passage? Jerry Kelso

 

[Kaon]

You just said that they are "always rejecting".... This takes free will.

What if these people that continuously reject Him were built that way from the foundations of the Creation? Vessels prepared for destruction as it were...

I think we are all here experiencing our choices that lead us to where we already are - so that we have no reason to ask, "why am I in Heaven/hell?" That's why some people believe we are in a simulation, or a black hole, non-existent, etc. They see the "entanglement" between "real life" and afterlife, but don't quite know how to perceive it except in their crude academic language (e.g. physics, math, comp sci).

 

[Mark Quayle]

You just said that they are "always rejecting".... This takes free will.

Do you deny the verse I quoted? And yes, it means that in context, too.

But again, what do you mean by "free will"? Real choice? Good. I agree. Our choices are real, with real results and consequences, even eternal results.

But if by free will, you mean that God is not in control, whether by influence or manipulation of circumstances or whatever else he chooses to do, of what happens in his creation, then no, we have no free will.

If you take free will to mean that God must be hands off, then no, there is no free will.

The ....heart is as a watercourse in the hand of God. He directs it wherever he chooses.

 

[Dave L]

davel,

1. Can you you try to be consistent to the immediate context and the rest of the scriptures that harmonize with the passage? Jerry Kelso

The rest also suggest James is not lying.

 

[Clete]

I missed your reply.

Okay, so now I've repeated it twice.

Do you have ANY intention whatsoever of actually debating the issue of free will or are you just here to throw out one liners and unsupported personal opinion?

I don't care which, just tell me so I can whether to ignore you from now on or not.