James 4:11 questions

[Robw_z]

Hello all,

first post! I am going through some troubles and am wondering how you all interpret James 4:11; "Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge"

Is this saying you should not speak negatively about others behind their back? Or never at all? Once upon a time somebody in my congregation treated me in a way I thought was wrong, and I confronted him in as peaceable a manner I could muster to his face.

He denied wrongdoing, fair enough, but then proceeded to make my life very difficult behind my back for years thereafter. I eventually had to leave my congregation.

Since then, I have always felt tempted to tell my side of the story, but I don't know if there is profit in that. I've just had a hard time getting over the anger I feel over what feels like an injustice.

Thanks for your understanding,

-Rob

 

[jacks]

It sounds like a difficult and unpleasant situation, but my advise at this point would be let it go. Ultimately these people who bare false witness and generally make our lives miserable with have to answer for their behavior. (As we all will.) Hopefully knowing this will help you move on.

Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 1 Peter 3:9

BTW Welcome!

 

[eleos1954]

Hello all,

first post! I am going through some troubles and am wondering how you all interpret James 4:11; "Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge"

Is this saying you should not speak negatively about others behind their back? Or never at all? Once upon a time somebody in my congregation treated me in a way I thought was wrong, and I confronted him in as peaceable a manner I could muster to his face.

He denied wrongdoing, fair enough, but then proceeded to make my life very difficult behind my back for years thereafter. I eventually had to leave my congregation.

Since then, I have always felt tempted to tell my side of the story, but I don't know if there is profit in that. I've just had a hard time getting over the anger I feel over what feels like an injustice.

Thanks for your understanding,

-Rob

Better to forgive ... that will get rid of the anger and don't dwell on it any longer.

 

[Tigger45]

2635 katalaléō (from 2596 /katá, "down, according to," intensifying 2980 /laléō, "to prattle on") – properly, speak down to in a hostile, deriding way; to mock (revile), detracting from someone's reputation by "malice of speech directed against one's neightbor" (DNTT, 4,4); to defame, slander (backbite).

 

[paul1149]

I have always felt tempted to tell my side of the story, but I don't know if there is profit in that.

I suppose that would depend on your motivations. The passage just before this is about humility, so that is a starting point. And the reference to judging the law reminds us that we all stand only by grace.

But both Paul and John talk in their letters about "brothers" who have done them harm or abandoned them. Perhaps that was necessary in order to warn others. I don't believe James' admonition is without exceptions.

When Jesus warned His disciples about others He usually referred to groups - the Pharisees, the scribes, etc, with the exception of calling Herod a "fox". If you need to give your testimony or to warn others about the dangers within the established church, maybe you could keep it as general as possible and still be effective.

 

[Robw_z]

I suppose that would depend on your motivations.

When Jesus warned His disciples about others He usually referred to groups - the Pharisees, the scribes, etc, with the exception of calling Herod a "fox". If you need to give your testimony or to warn others about the dangers within the established church, maybe you could keep it as general as possible and still be effective.

I suppose my motivation for doing so is his behavior almost seemed to infect the congregation with an unspoken example that it was OK to do what he was doing. Everybody would get quiet when they witnessed him doing something, such as "accidentally" breaking something of mine, like he was sending a message to everyone that if they called him out like I had he would go after them too.

The reason I ultimately left the congregation was actually another member, who if you want to believe I'm an honest guy, scapegoated me for an embarrassing situation she found herself in. I felt like she did this because she'd seen the other guy doing it and getting away with it, so she figured she could too.

The other guy lied about me all the time, but it didn't really bother me because everybody knew deep down he is dishonest. But this girl had a good reputation, which is why I think she was so embarrassed and why everybody believed her in the situation.

It's just hard to get treated unjustly and pound sand. If it happened to me here or there, I think I could handle it. But I was kind of an outsider at the congregation, the easiest person to blame, and it just kept getting worse and worse. These people view themselves very highly and very Godly, but I could tell them a story that contrasts that very distinctly. I just don't know if it's worth it or like you said, my motivations are correct.

-Rob

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

I suppose my motivation for doing so is his behavior almost seemed to infect the congregation with an unspoken example that it was OK to do what he was doing. Everybody would get quiet when they witnessed him doing something, such as "accidentally" breaking something of mine, like he was sending a message to everyone that if they called him out like I had he would go after them too.

The reason I ultimately left the congregation was actually another member, who if you want to believe I'm an honest guy, scapegoated me for an embarrassing situation she found herself in. I felt like she did this because she'd seen the other guy doing it and getting away with it, so she figured she could too.

The other guy lied about me all the time, but it didn't really bother me because everybody knew deep down he is dishonest. But this girl had a good reputation, which is why I think she was so embarrassed and why everybody believed her in the situation.

It's just hard to get treated unjustly and pound sand. If it happened to me here or there, I think I could handle it. But I was kind of an outsider at the congregation, the easiest person to blame, and it just kept getting worse and worse. These people view themselves very highly and very Godly, but I could tell them a story that contrasts that very distinctly. I just don't know if it's worth it or like you said, my motivations are correct.

-Rob

(1Jn 4:15) Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
(1Jn 4:16) And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
(1Jn 4:17) Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
(1Jn 4:18) There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
(1Jn 4:19) We love him, because he first loved us.
(1Jn 4:20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
(1Jn 4:21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.


(1Co 13:4) Love endures with patience and serenity, love is kind and thoughtful, and is not jealous or envious; love does not brag and is not proud or arrogant.
(1Co 13:5) It is not rude; it is not self-seeking, it is not provoked [nor overly sensitive and easily angered]; it does not take into account a wrong endured.
(1Co 13:6) It does not rejoice at injustice, but rejoices with the truth [when right and truth prevail].
(1Co 13:7) Love bears all things [regardless of what comes], believes all things [looking for the best in each one], hopes all things [remaining steadfast during difficult times], endures all things [without weakening].
(1Co 13:8) Love never fails [it never fades nor ends]. But as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for the gift of special knowledge, it will pass away.

 

[paul1149]

It's just hard to get treated unjustly and pound sand.

Mt 18 gives the protocol for dealing with offenses. Take it to the brother, then to the elders, then the church. If the offense doesn't rise to that level it is probably best left alone; or at least approached delicately so that if there is no resolution you have a back door and then can simply avoid the person.

 

[Noxot]

Ideally all we do is approved by God. The things in the Bible are our guidelines but life with God can never be contained to a book. That's why he said he would send his holy spirit to us. Let us give ourselves to God completely and he will give himself to us completely. only by the grace of God could we even tell the difference between Good and Evil. God wants us to be ourself and so sometimes we will stumble in our own freedom but our stumbling is part of the process of Walking with God.

The ideal human being is like the son of God, fully human and fully God. Until then even our darkness is a sacrifice we can make to God. Whatever you do, try to please God.

 

[longwait]

Hello all,

first post! I am going through some troubles and am wondering how you all interpret James 4:11; "Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge"

Is this saying you should not speak negatively about others behind their back? Or never at all? Once upon a time somebody in my congregation treated me in a way I thought was wrong, and I confronted him in as peaceable a manner I could muster to his face.

He denied wrongdoing, fair enough, but then proceeded to make my life very difficult behind my back for years thereafter. I eventually had to leave my congregation.

Since then, I have always felt tempted to tell my side of the story, but I don't know if there is profit in that. I've just had a hard time getting over the anger I feel over what feels like an injustice.

Thanks for your understanding,

-Rob

God will avenge and God will repay. We ourselves are answerable to the Lord for the wrongs we do. The way the Lord repays is perfect.

 

[Robw_z]

Thank you.

I feel like God is telling me in a way, that the church I was passively rejected from is abusing his Word to give darkness to misdeeds. But I can tell the angry reactions I am tempted to act out are not right. I will pray and hope to please Him.

-Rob