J. Vernon McGee taught cheap grace

[didactics]

Well really no use continuing on with any more back a forth post. As i completely reject the Lordship salvation approach to Biblical Soteriology, so we have come to an impasse.

And it’s sad really, because this is no secondary or tertiary disagreement. This matter of soteriology is of upmost importance. If some believe Jesus is savior but have given no thought to him as Lord, fine. But to deny that he is Lord is not something to take lightly. To affirm someone as a believer who denies any need to commit to God is a serious error. And how do you believe that Christians may fall into a state of lifelong carnality if by taking the Lord’s Supper they grow sick and die? Easy-believism teaches that a true believer may utterly forsake Christ and come to the point of not believing. That doesn’t sound like a believer to me. How can any issue be more important?

 

[d taylor]

And it’s sad really, because this is no secondary or tertiary disagreement. This matter of soteriology is of upmost importance. If some believe Jesus is savior but have given no thought to him as Lord, fine. But to deny that he is Lord is not something to take lightly. To affirm someone as a believer who denies any need to commit to God is a serious error. And how do you believe that Christians may fall into a state of lifelong carnality if by taking the Lord’s Supper they grow sick and die? Easy-believism teaches that a true believer may utterly forsake Christ and come to the point of not believing. That doesn’t sound like a believer to me. How can any issue be more important?

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Making Jesus Lord, an issue in receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. Is just imposing ones beliefs onto God's plan for a person to receive the free gift of Eternal Life salvation by faith in Jesus. When there is absoulty no support from the Bible for this. so really what is there further to discuss.

You read the parable of the soils and only see one believer the fourth soil. Where as i read the parable of the soils and believe what The Bible states that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th soils are all examples of types of believers that exist in the faith.

 

[Dan Perez]

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Making Jesus Lord, an issue in receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. Is just imposing ones beliefs onto God's plan for a person to receive the free gift of Eternal Life salvation by faith in Jesus. When there is absoulty no support from the Bible for this. so really what is there further to discuss.

You read the parable of the soils and only see one believer the fourth soil. Where as i read the parable of the soils and believe what The Bible states that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th soils are all examples of types of believers that exist in the faith.

Maybe 1 Cor 12:3 will change your MIND ?

I would call it LORDSHIP salvation !!

dan p

 

[d taylor]

Maybe 1 Cor 12:3 will change your MIND ?

I would call it LORDSHIP salvation !!

dan p

Why do you keep posting books of The Bible addressed to believers. Where Paul is addressing issues within the church, in this book, the church at Corinth. Using them in an eternal life evangelistic way, even when there is no mention of Paul addressing what unbelievers must believe to receive eternal life.

 

[didactics]

Why do you keep posting books of The Bible addressed to believers. Where Paul is addressing issues within the church, in this book, the church at Corinth. Using them in an eternal life evangelistic way, even when there is no mention of Paul addressing what unbelievers must believe to receive eternal life.

Well the way I see it is that the message is the same to believers as to unbelievers. How? Because after presenting the gospel to the unsaved, there is a call to repent of one's sins and believe in Christ or trust in him, implying that he is Lord. And when the believer hears that same message it is not a call to begin to believe, but to continue to repent and believe. Or you could say that this calling is taken that way as an encouragement to stay the course. That is why a preacher can stand at his podium and preach the gospel when there are believers present.

There is no reason to make this dichotomy with one message to the unsaved and another for the saved. I see no reason for it.

 

[d taylor]

Well the way I see it is that the message is the same to believers as to unbelievers. How? Because after presenting the gospel to the unsaved, there is a call to repent of one's sins and believe in Christ or trust in him, implying that he is Lord. And when the believer hears that same message it is not a call to begin to believe, but to continue to repent and believe. Or you could say that this calling is taken that way as an encouragement to stay the course. That is why a preacher can stand at his podium and preach the gospel when there are believers present.

There is no reason to make this dichotomy with one message to the unsaved and another for the saved. I see no reason for it.

The message to unbelievers is not the same as to believers.

The message to unbelievers is, that Jesus is the resurrection and the life, the promised Messiah, only begotten Son of God and to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a born again child of God believe this about Jesus. Believe He, Jesus is the resurrection and the life, the promised Messiah. only begotten Son of God.

That message to believers does not need to be repeated, as becoming a Believer happens in a moment of time, a one moment in time act of belief. As long as it takes for a person to understand and believe the above about Jesus.

The messages to believers is in Acts through Revelation.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

It is not that you refuse to pay the price. It is that you cannot. You are broke.

 

[Fervent]

The problem isn't with J. Vernon McGee or any other particular preacher, but the degree to which salvation is abstracted within a great deal of discussion on it. If we look at the Biblical picture, the law and sin are largely organic matters and are part of a larger whole. But Roman law developed a highly abstract way of thinking about such matters from about the 5th century to the present, especially developing around the time of the Reformation. When you abstract the law to the degree it now is thought to be, salvation becomes nothing more than a transaction. A moving from the column of "unsaved" to "saved" with no basis in reality, only a legal fiction. Now, it would be unjust for God to accept payment for that transaction, because He is not susceptible to bribes. So either it's freely given, or it's not given at all. It is only when we recognize the organic, concrete nature of the law and sin that we can appreciate how salvation can come by faith and yet not be free from obligations.

 

[FireDragon76]

"Lordship salvation" is a Baptist's attempt to hack up traditional Protestant theology and parse something workable out, without having to submit to traditional confessional theology that clearly distinguishes between justification and sanctification.

This isn't surprising, though... the heavy-handed moralizing tendency of many later Puritans is clearly evident in the direction the Puritans and Presbyterians took in Britain. The doctrine of grace is "dangerous" to established hierarchies and moral orders, in some cases the powers-that-be going to lengths to suppress it (such as the Marrow controversy in Scotland, or Anne Hutchinson in New England).

 

[Dan Perez]

The message to unbelievers is not the same as to believers.

The message to unbelievers is, that Jesus is the resurrection and the life, the promised Messiah, only begotten Son of God and to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a born again child of God believe this about Jesus. Believe He, Jesus is the resurrection and the life, the promised Messiah. only begotten Son of God.

That message to believers does not need to be repeated, as becoming a Believer happens in a moment of time, a one moment in time act of belief. As long as it takes for a person to understand and believe the above about Jesus.

The messages to believers is in Acts through Revelation.

And who is , and How was Israel BORN AGAIN , as written in John 2:7 ?

What is the CONTEXT of the Gospels ; Jewish or Gentile ?

dan p

 

[SavedByGrace3]

And who is , and How was Israel BORN AGAIN , as written in John 2:7 ?

What is the CONTEXT of the Gospels ; Jewish or Gentile ?

dan p

Did you mean 3:7?

 

[Dan Perez]

The message to unbelievers is not the same as to believers.

The message to unbelievers is, that Jesus is the resurrection and the life, the promised Messiah, only begotten Son of God and to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a born again child of God believe this about Jesus. Believe He, Jesus is the resurrection and the life, the promised Messiah. only begotten Son of God.

That message to believers does not need to be repeated, as becoming a Believer happens in a moment of time, a one moment in time act of belief. As long as it takes for a person to understand and believe the above about Jesus.

The messages to believers is in Acts through Revelation.

And I will not say that Acts 2:38 is the same as Eph 2:8 .

Acts 2: 36 and 37 is to Israel , the UNBLEIVERS , when they CRUCIFIED Jesus .

Eph 2:8 is speaking to all !

dan p