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I've started to become attached to the KJV, is there any proof though that its the..

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by yogosans14, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    It beats me that you would be using the NWT of the Jehovah's Witnesses to compare with any committee translation of the Bible. Are you a supporter of the JWs?

    These are some different renditions of Psalm 12:6-7. Why are the KJV and NKJV correct and the others wrong?
    Psalm 12:6-7


    King James Version (KJV)

    6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

    +++++++++++
    Psalm 12:6-7

    New King James Version (NKJV)

    6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
    Like silver tried in a furnace of earth,
    Purified seven times.
    7 You shall keep them, O Lord,
    You shall preserve them from this generation forever.


    +++++++++++
    Psalm 12:6-7

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 And the words of the Lord are flawless,
    like silver purified in a crucible,
    like gold[a] refined seven times.

    7 You, Lord, will keep the needy safe
    and will protect us forever from the wicked,

    Footnotes:


    1. Psalm 12:6 Probable reading of the original Hebrew text; Masoretic Text earth

    ++++++++++++++
    Psalm 12:6-7

    English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)

    6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
    like silver refined in a furnace on the ground,
    purified seven times.
    7 You, O Lord, will keep them;
    you will guard us[a] from this generation for ever.

    Footnotes:


    1. Psalm 12:7 Or guard him

    +++++++++++++++
    Psalm 12:6-7

    New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)

    6 The promises of the Lord are promises that are pure,
    silver refined in a furnace on the ground,
    purified seven times.

    7 You, O Lord, will protect us;
    you will guard us from this generation for ever.


    +++++++++++++++++

    Evangelical commentator on the book of Psalms, H C Leupold, in Exposition of Psalms (London: Evangelical Press 1959 - reprinted by Baker Book House in 1969) wrote of Psalm 12:6-7,
    Here we have Leupold writing his commentary in 1959, long before the translations of the NIV, ESV and NRSV, but his understanding of the Hebrew text is the same as from these translations and not the same as the KJV and NKJV.

    Interesting!;)

    In Christ, Oz
     
  2. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Do you mean to say that you know the KJV meaning of 'superfluity of naughtiness' (James 1:21) without consulting a commentary or another translation?

    That's using a straw man logical fallacy as we are talking about a translation (the KJV) and not the original languages (Hebrew & Greek).

    Oz
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  3. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Well said.:thumbsup:

    Oz
     
  4. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Old guy -

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    "I hope you are not serious about your last comment."

    Serious as a heart attack, y'all. It's as easy to find the Word of God in the JW Bible, as it is in the KJV. And of course JWs have to cope with the lousy theology of their denomination.
     
  5. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    It is also possible to find heresy in the NWT of the JWs.

    Oz
     
  6. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi,

    Listen, I need you to think this through very carefully. This is very important to your ability to discern truth.

    Before you can make a claim that either translation is wrong you must, let me repeat and read over 'must', know the Hebrew language, or have someone that you trust to translate it for you. You must find the most reliable copy of psalm 12 that you believe to exist and translate it into english. Then you will be able to say which one is correct.

    Just for your information, and I do encourage you to go even deeper in your study of this issue, the major source document of the KJ was what had recently been authored (just 100 or so years before the KJ) called the Textus Receptus. There have been allegations made that there are actually places within the TR where the writer did fill in some blank and undecipherable places of the Scripture manuscripts that he had to work with. Now, let me ask you: If you were to find that the TR had errors, or at the very least places that came from the mind of its writer rather than any previous manuscript source, and the KJ came from the TR, would it not logically follow that some of those passages were transferred into the KJ as the translators did their work following the TR?

    So, before you jump up and down pointing fingers based solely on your belief that just because the KJ is older it must be more accurate I would sincerely encourage you to write down each one of the differences you find and then go find the oldest reliable source document and see what you find when you translate those source documents on your own.

    I think you may be surprised at some of the things you come to know and you will have truly used godly discernment in studying the word of your God.

    God bless you.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  7. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    I apologize, as I am wrong. The Pilgrams used the Geneva Bible. I was incorrect.

    Lets see here, what were the only versions of the Bible available at that time?

    Of course you had the Geneva Bible.

    The Wycliff Bible.

    The Latin Vulgate.

    Jerome's Bible.

    Am I missing any?

    Why would the Pilgrams, which were basically Anabaptists, use a Catholic bible? That rules out the Latin Vulgate and Jerome's.

    So what are we left with?

    You say potatoe, I say potato.

    I say the NIV is not a good bible, you it is.

    Here again, I have already in another thread sghown where the NIV leaves a lot to be desired.

    But since I am so wrong here, I'll bow out gracefully.

    God Bless

    TIll all are one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  8. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi DD,

    Don't take my comments personally. When I read things, especially about the Scriptures, creation, the operation of the church, and what people have believed, my mind is constantly asking, "Is that true? Is the claim being made a true statement based on supportable evidence? Often times I find, and believe me I've been just as guilty at times, the claim isn't really based on verifiable facts, but rather what someone was taught or heard or read.

    The reasons I have learned to do this are two fold. First, I appreciate the encouragement found in the Scriptures to the Bereans. Here was Paul, a man that we surely believe today, was the Lord's appointed to the Gentiles and also to the Jew. A man that we know knew the real truth of God and about God and yet God's word tells us that when they heard Paul speak they took in what he said to them and then immediately went and checked it out against what the Scriptures say. The picture I get is that they, too, seemed to always listen with their ears, but their minds constantly asking, "Is what I'm hearing true?" And Paul commends them for this!

    Secondly, in my years of studying the Scriptures, especially the old covenant, I find that much grave error came from just such an attitude that often seems prevelant today, especially among the orthodox and catholic organizations: We believe something about God, or the Scriptures, is true because those who hold the position of authority in the fellowships say so. This, I believe, was one of Jesus' complaints against those in the similar positions of authority in the Jewish faith. They believed much of the untruths about what it meant to honor the Sabbath and to honor God and to find righteousness because that's what they were told. We even have Jesus' own words of condemnation where he rebukes the scribes and pharisees and teachers of the law that not only were they putting themselves under condemnation, but that they would go to the ends of the earth to proselytize someone and then turn them into a dog of hell just as they were. (Ted's paraphrase)

    So yes, here you are on a public forum working to garner support for your belief that the KJ is the best translation of the Scriptures and supporting that claim with a couple of 'facts', and my mind immediately asks, "are those facts true?" Is the foundation that supports this person's understanding and belief really based on supportable facts?

    I am encouraged, and commend you also, that when asked to support your facts, you did apparently do the research and came to understand that maybe you'd better find some other facts to support your belief and understanding. Of course, there is always the possibility that the basic understanding may not really be true. It is possible that God is as much honored in the KJV as He is in the NIV or the ESV, or any of the other well researched and faithfully translated work of His Scriptures. It is possible that God really is glad to see that we keep updating His Scriptures, just as was the purpose of the very first translation of His Scriptures, so that as we move through the generations more people can come to know and understand His love for them. That may well be exactly what Jesus intended us to understand when he said that God's word would never pass away. After all, the original manuscripts are all gone and so if we consider this carefully, and believe it to be true, then Jesus must have been intending us to understand that it would be through newer translations and copies that it would never pass away. Think on that for just a bit.

    God bless you.
    IN Christ, Ted
     
  9. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  10. standingtall

    standingtall Such is life....

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    ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2013
  11. Bear.Fr00t

    Bear.Fr00t Fruit Inspector

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    Before you stick with KJV and NKJV, you should spend some time on this web site:

    Bible Research by Michael Marlowe

    Nothing wrong with KJV and NKJV (I use NKJV) you just need more education on the subject that the KJV only web sites won't give you.
     
  12. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    To all who are reading this thread,

    I am not at all against the KJ translation of the Scriptures. It is a fairly accurate translation and absolutely valuable in bringing men to the truth of God's salvation. My point is merely that it is a translation, just like many, many other translations. It was written to a people and culture that lived in the the 1600's and in its day was a very good translation and was invaluable in that it was the most widely used and accepted translation of God's holy word and thus opened the eyes of many in that day to the way of God's salvation.

    However, today we have fairly good translations that speak to the people and culture of today using a more modern vernacular, but the purpose of the Scriptures; the ultimate goal of God's delivering to men His holy words through His Spirit and the prophets and writers of the original manuscripts is sufficiently provided in many, many different translations. The KJ being only one of those many. The Geneva bible that DD referenced will also suffice to do the work of God. Jesus said that God's word would never pass away until heaven and earth pass away and I firmly and steadfastly believe and support that he meant that to be understood by us as being accomplished through many translations. As I pointed out, all of the originals are gone and most likely will never be found, certianly in any complete form and so Jesus would not have told us the truth if he meant for us to understand that the very words penned by the original writers in their exact original form would remain with us forever.

    The bottom line truth is that if anyone really desires to know whether or not they are reading the words originally written by the hands of the men God chose to write His Scriptures, we are sadly surely lost. For today it is only by faith and knowing Jesus' promise to be true that we can trust that any translation we read is accurate to the nth degree in being the exact words written by the original writers.

    God bless you all.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  13. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Old guy -

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    "It is also possible to find heresy in the NWT of the JWs."

    However the SAFETY in that is that the Holy Spirit WILL NOT energise/anoint - what He didn't say. Denominations have all sorts of "Doctrines", but the Word of God - wherever it's found is still strong in its ability to convict.

    I Know a fellow that got saved reading the Book of Mormon in the basement of BYU by the scripture in Mosiah 14 (Isaiah 53).
     
  14. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    You quote me, and in that quote I apologized as I was incorrect and yet you still single me out.

    Open wound, pour in salt.

    Thank you.

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  15. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    To all who are interested, here is a thread on the topic of the NIV from 2011.

    Please give it a read as it points out problems with the NIV.

    SBC votes to boycott the 2011 NIV

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  16. standingtall

    standingtall Such is life....

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    Old news, already beaten to death in the thread you posted. Should we break out the clubs and beat that dead horse some more?
     
  17. yogosans14

    yogosans14 Newbie

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    Whats the difference between the 2011 NIV and the others?

    Also why would someone add 1 John 5:7 to support the Trinity?theres already tons of scriptures to support it.
     
  18. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Actually it was the Geneva bible that was used more by the Pilgrims,it took the K.JV.a while to catch on.

    It was adopted the official bible for America by our founding fathers.

    It is actually easier to read than newer translation, for me it is my bible.

    It to me is easier to memorize,and I do not have a problem with English.

    Grammar is another story:idea:
     
  19. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Sorry guys I did not read the reply from Dean before I posted.
     
  20. Keachian

    Keachian On Sabbatical

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    I believe that it was a gloss, or piece of commentary that was then incorporated as if it were a correction.
     
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