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Featured I've Seen John MacArthur In A New Light

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Oscarr, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    In times past on CF I have opposed John MacArthur because of his views concerning the Charismatic movement. But in recent times I have discovered that the manifestations that used to be in the "lunatic fringe" have, over the last 30 years have now become an integral part of the mainstream Charismatic movement. I am shocked to see the great changes that have happened since I left the movement in 1978. It seems that the heretical and blasphemous teachings of Charismatic tele-evangelists seem to be accepted by the majority of Charismatics. It seems that the prosperity, guaranteed healing, positive thinking, positive confession doctrines which are more cultish Christian Science than Biblical Christianity, have taken over the mainstream movement and are attracting great crowds. The Scripture says that the broad and popular way is the way to destruction while it is the narrow way to salvation and few there be that find it. So great conferences that teach the heresies are attracting stadiums full of people, while churches that preach the true gospel are lucky to get 100 people to church on Sunday!

    So, I decided to view John MacArthur to see what he taught. I find that his Bible teaching is faith-building. I see what he is meaning when he says that Charismatics are not Christians. He is talking about the mainstream heretical Charismatics who are teaching multitudes of people the prosperity, positive confession, guaranteed healing and faith in faith doctrines.

    I have had to examine myself and to weed out those beliefs that I have accepted for so many years. I have had to repent from these things, and also have had to repent that I have not been more outspoken in my opposition to the blasphemies and heresies that are been taught in mega-churches and conferences conducted by Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar and others in that particular movement, also the Kansas City prophets, and Bethel Church. These heretical teachers have hijacked the true Charismatic movement to such a degree that there is so much paganism and occult in it now that it is better to withdraw from it so that good and godly continuance believers are not corrupted by the falsehood.

    So, I am really appreciating John MacArthur's ministry. I believe that he is being faithful to God's Word in what he teaches. I know that he is Cessationist in his view, but he does not say that Continuous are not saved. He believes that the godly and faithful believers within the Charismatic movement should be more outspoken in their opposition to the false teachers, prophets, and heresies; and he expresses sadness and disappointment that the "live and let live" approach by those who know that these teachings are heretical.

    To those who know me, you can see what a major turn-around I am having. The ministries of Dave Hunt and John MacArthur have turned my theology on its head! I still believe that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit are for today, but they need to be initiated by the Holy Spirit and conducted with decency and in order, and not through kundalini out of control manifestation which we see in Charismatic conferences on Youtube!
     
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  2. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    Even on CF, there is a distinction between WOF (no pun intended*) and not, among Charismatics.

    *Can you imagine their acronym, if they adopted Word Of Lucrative Faith, instead?
     
  3. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I believe that there are the "7000" genuine Charimatics who have not bowed their knee to the faith, prosperity, positive confession, "Baal" counterfeit Jesus.
     
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  4. nanookadenord

    nanookadenord Well-Known Member

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    Better be careful otherwise you may have someone like Alithis come in and say you don't believe all the words of Jesus.
     
  5. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    I actually read some of Mac Arthur's stuff back in the day. He raises important issues that are usually ignored or justified. I do,however, think he is too negative. One problem I see in many of the heretic hunter groups is they often to tend to over generalize etc. I still believe it is best to give people the benefit of the doubt unless they prove you wrong. This gives you the upper hand especially when dealing or debating from folks from the other side (Because making big claims that you cannot factually support is probably one of the best ways to loose credibility).
     
  6. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    It took me only a two years of trying to implement the various WOF teaching etc. to reject them. I was certainly motivated, I was having lots of problems in graduate school and would have loved to Faith it through all of it. But not only did that stuff cause me stress etc. (It really seemed to tempt me into having a nervous break down). But at different times, it dawned on me how they cherry picked the Bible. Not everyone in the Bible had a break through because of Faith. God actually had mercy on people and often did things for them when their Faith was lousy. Providence is another biggee, yet that message is never preached, but it often can be a great comfort for people going through hard times etc. But with those people you would think everything is up to you and your faith rather than God actually ordaining things.
     
  7. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    I agree. Actually the one area that really needs to be addressed is the area of contemporary prophesy. According to the Bible, the NT covenant is better than the OT one in every way (Heb 8:7). Concerning the exercise of the gift of prophesy though you would never know that (new prophets cannot meet the standards of accuracy etc. of the OT)! Lots and lots of squirrelly wishy washy stuff when it comes to contemporary prophets and prophesy. And don't get me started on "apostles"! lol
     
  8. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I have listened to many of his messages, and he is not as negative as you think. In all the hours I have spent viewing him, I have not found anything that would not totally comply with Scripture. He is pretty adamant about totally complying with written Scripture, that it is the complete revelation of God and nothing can be added to it by "new" revelation.
     
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  9. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    No new direction or agenda, but new details/specifics certainly can (and will) be. That is the nature of the prophetic Charismatic gifts.
     
  10. StillGods

    StillGods Well-Known Member

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    I found John MacArthur helpful and at the time a much needed bringer of balance/perspective when I was coming out of a particularly unhealthy charismatic church environment.

    good on you for having another look.
     
  11. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Anything outside of that, or that leads people away from the foundation of Christ crucified and risen again for Christian faith and experience is false.
     
  12. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    All true, but when God says that the church needs to do a certain thing (to prepare His Kingdom) or something specific about a contemporary leader, those are, by definition, extra-Biblical utterances. They must be bound by Scripture, but not necessarily repeated in Scripture.
     
  13. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    After thinking about this carefully, I understand what you are saying. I don't think that when a person prophesies that all he would do is just repeat Scripture verbatum. Anyone can quote Scripture, and that is not prophesying as described in 1 Corinthians 14. I don't see any actual guidance from Scripture about prophesy outside of the local church, although a prophecy given saying what a church should do to prepare itself for a closer walk with Christ or to move into God's will for it. I'm not sure whether the prophetic would be used to promote a church or movement leader. I don't see anything like that in Acts. Paul, in his letters, did comment on different people both in positive and negative terms, but I don't think he was prophesying.

    I think the best way to go in judging prophecy is to gauge, through knowing Jesus, Peter, Paul and John through the written gospels, Acts, and epistles, what they are likely to say to the church concerning different issues. If they have already made comments about issues that confront us still today, then we need to take notice of them, because anything different will be contradiction to what they have already said, and they wouldn't say anything that they wouldn't have said back when they first made their comments.

    For example, both Jesus and Paul said that there would be a major falling away, tribulation, causing the love of many to wax cold in the last days. If a current prophecy comes out saying the opposite that in the last days there will be great revivals where millions will be saved, then we can safely assume that the prophecy is false.
     
  14. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The Bible says: "I have spoken these things to you so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world." (John 16:33).

    Also:
    "Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us" (Romans 5:3-5).

    This is not taught by the WOF movement, because these verses are totally opposite to what they teach. They teach that we will always be healthy, financial prosperous, and always positive in our thinking and experience; and if we have problems it is because we don't have enough faith and therefore are not where God wants us to be.

    I differ. Whether we have peace, positiveness, or problems, we are always where God wants us to be, because Jesus said that He would be with us always, even to the end of the world. It is not what we experience in life that is the most important, but in whatever state we find ourselves in, Jesus will be with us to see us through. Paul wrote his best letters while in prison for his faith. He was right where God wanted him to be. He was shipwrecked three times, but he was having faith in Christ right through those experiences.
     
  15. GTW27

    GTW27 Junior Member

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    Speaking of You tube. Perhaps it is time to listen to the words of the" false prophet"(Young Prophet)and what he had to say to John, when he interupted his service in 2015. Let not man turn your theology on its head, Let Jesus.
     
  16. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    Link?
     
  17. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I saw the video clip. John MacArthur was right. If the guy was a real prophet he would not have behaved in that way. If the guy was behaving according to the fruit of the Spirit he wouldn't have interrupted the speaker in that way. That guy was a bad advertisement for Charismatics and served only to reinforce Mr MacArthur's view about Charismatics in general.

    If I felt that I had a similar prophecy for Mr MacArthur to say that his Cessationist teaching was wrong, I would have written it out and submitted it to Him through his church office for his consideration. I would not be saying "The Lord declares" or anything like that. I would rather say, "I had these thoughts and I want to share them with you" and then leave it to him to determine whether it is prophetic for him. I doubt whether he would receive it as a word from God for him, but that would not be my problem. Just being faithful to what I know and sharing it with him would be enough for me.

    We can't force any prophetic word on anyone, and any prophetic word has to be given with love, peaceableness, gentleness, kindness, patience, and self-control.

    I don't believe that Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel or Joel would have behaved like that man did. They would have written their prophecies down and submitted them to the leaders of Israel in the appropriate way. We know this, because we have the written record of them.

    Bad manners will never get anyone anywhere no matter how much they think they are right.
     
  18. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    He's a complementarian who excludes women from leadership and teaching roles. :(
     
  19. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    That's another of his presuppositions that flavours his teaching on that topic. When he sticks to the text of the Bible and teaches from what it says, he is really good and makes the Scripture come alive. But when he teaches stuff that causes him to make the Bible agree with his suppositions, then his hermeneutics becomes questionable. I guess it's a matter of picking the meat from the bones. I love eating chicken, but the bones sometimes become inconvenient.

    I think excluding women from leadership and ministry is a Calvinist "thing". Sad really.
     
  20. GTW27

    GTW27 Junior Member

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    Watch the video again, this time perceive with your heart. Take note of the woman's reaction up front and the young one who also speaks. Most importantly listen to His words. "you are sharpening the swords and cutting each other"
     
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