I've invented a way to create an atmosphere on Mars

Occams Barber

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But electricity was discovered in the 1700's... I doubt people in 1776 thought electric carriages were a possibility.


Electricity was discovered much earlier than 1776 but that misses the point.

To conceive of electric cars you must first conceive of "cars" and secondly you need to conceive of electricity as a motive force. Using electricity as a motive force is actually the reverse of generating electricity. This is a concept you need to understand before you can even understand the possibility of an electric car.

It's a huge jump from using steam to generate electricity to using electricity (from what source??) to create motion.

OB
 
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Landon Caeli

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Electricity was discovered much earlier than 1776 but that misses the point.

To conceive of electric cars you must first conceive of "cars" and secondly you need to conceive of electricity as a motive force. Using electricity as a motive force is actually the reverse of generating electricity. This is a concept you need to understand before you can even understand the possibility of an electric car.

It's a huge jump from using steam to generate electricity to using electricity (from what source??) to create motion.

OB

True, although cars and carts are pretty much the same thing outside the means of whether it's a horse, combustion engine, or stored electricity doing the work.

But it's true what you say... We tend to not put our ideas before innovation (at least historically). Historically, we tend to put our ideas where the potential for money is. ;) That seems to be the driving force of innovation... But then, money has often stood in the way of doing what's best too, especially in regards to the environment.. "Big oil" comes to mind.
 
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Landon Caeli

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...But, I do now question the logic behind being a visionary prior to the means. Is it wise or unwise..? That's a good question, IMO.

Perhaps it's not a good way of being... But how can we know for sure..?
 
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Hans Blaster

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But electricity was discovered in the 1700's... I doubt people in 1776 thought electric carriages were a possibility.

Among the early motor cars in the late 19th century were those powered by electricity, steam, and internal combustion engines. I'd have to check if the electric cars were battery or steam generator cars, but if we assume battery then they had the same problem that electric cars faced until the beginning of the current century -- energy density. Liquid fuels just have higher energy density than pre-2000 batteries. You could travel further on 100 pounds of gasoline than 100 pounds of fully charged batteries, at least until now. That's why liquid fuels won out in the early 20th century. (That and the popularity of the Model T and growth of the fuel distribution network.)
 
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Landon Caeli

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Among the early motor cars in the late 19th century were those powered by electricity, steam, and internal combustion engines. I'd have to check if the electric cars were battery or steam generator cars, but if we assume battery then they had the same problem that electric cars faced until the beginning of the current century -- energy density. Liquid fuels just have higher energy density than pre-2000 batteries. You could travel further on 100 pounds of gasoline than 100 pounds of fully charged batteries, at least until now. That's why liquid fuels won out in the early 20th century. (That and the popularity of the Model T and growth of the fuel distribution network.)

Exactly. They didn't have the technology then, but things changed. New discoveries were made.

Reminds me of how Rockefeller actively worked against Edison and JP Morgan using propaganda on the dangers of electricity, because he had a pretty big hold on lamp oil production... And so, in the same way, big oil could have slowed the innovation of better batteries...

I just watched a series on it the other day... I recommend it.

https://www.history.com/shows/men-who-built-america/season-1
(also available on Amazon Prime and Netflix)
 
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Ophiolite

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Using electricity as a motive force is actually the reverse of generating electricity. This is a concept you need to understand before you can even understand the possibility of an electric car.
It's a huge jump from using steam to generate electricity to using electricity (from what source??) to create motion.
I cannot agree and am puzzled you think so. When, in school science class, I was first introduced to the behaviour of a wire moved in a magnetic field and the consequent generation of an electric current I was intrigued. I thought about it and suggested to a more informed colleague that one ought to be able to do the obverse and generate motion by passing current through a suitably arranged wire. He dismissed me with a sarcastic, "Yes, of course you could. You've just decribed an electric motor."
If a thirteen year old school boy of questionable intellect can see the possibility I don't think it can reasonably said that understanding the concept is a difficult one.
 
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Occams Barber

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I cannot agree and am puzzled you think so. When, in school science class, I was first introduced to the behaviour of a wire moved in a magnetic field and the consequent generation of an electric current I was intrigued. I thought about it and suggested to a more informed colleague that one ought to be able to do the obverse and generate motion by passing current through a suitably arranged wire. He dismissed me with a sarcastic, "Yes, of course you could. You've just decribed an electric motor."
If a thirteen year old school boy of questionable intellect can see the possibility I don't think it can reasonably said that understanding the concept is a difficult one.


That 13 year old kid was living in the second half of the 20th century surrounded by a plethora of electrical equipment doing all manner of things involving light, heat and motion.

I don't think we can readily compare his unconscious comprehension of electrical possibilities to that of some 18th century tinkerer playing with this new and intriguing phenomenon which as yet has no practical use.

This started out with Landon and I discussing the difficulties in conceiving of an electric car in the 1700s. My argument is that there are numerous conceptual difficulties which needed to be overcome to move from lightning bolts to Tesla. An electric car was inconceivable until a number of other concepts were in place. Things like the idea that electricity could be generated, understanding electricity as a motive force, finding a means of generating electricity which could be mounted on small moving platform etc.etc

OB
 
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Earth's magnetic field, which shields it from harmful radiation, allowing it to maintain an atmosphere is generated by the rotating mass of liquified metals beneath the earth's crust.

The evil super villain in me says a deep shaft could be bored towards mars core. With multiple superhot atomic cores lowered into it. If portions of mars core could be superheated and reliquified. It could naturally generate a magnetic field, which could be utilized to sustain life.

Another idea I've heard is for a large satellite in orbit to shield mars from cosmic rays and radiation.
 
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