It's not just OCD; I have to decide, am I really ready to live for Jesus?

[Bob8102]

In my OCD state of mind, I keep thinking I've given my life to Christ, then keep doubting it. OCD is called "pathological doubt." But I don't think my problem is limited to OCD. I have to become really ready to live for Jesus.

One, or some, of the reasons I can doubt I'm saved is (are) as follows:

I know one can be saved in a moment. So, I keep seeking that moment of salvation. It often seems to be just around the corner. But somehow, it seems I never really turn that corner. Or I don't STAY around the corner, once I've turned it. Which is the same thing as never really turning it.

I don't know how much subterfuge may lurk in the depths of my subconscious. Do I, subconsciously, think that if I convince myself that I am sincere, I will also convince Jesus that I am sincere? And if I can convince Jesus that I am sincere, then He will save me. Then, having fooled Him, I can spring back to living for myself, but be saved. Since I know one cannot fool Jesus, then I am only fooling myself, it that's what I do.

Jesus said, "The one who comes to me, I will by no means cast out." But He also said, "Whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple." So, my struggle is, have I forsaken, or am I ready to forsake, all that I have, to be His disciple?

Recently, in church, I (again) heard a song that really moves me. It is apparently by Passion and is called "Glorious Day." The most moving line in the song is, "and I ran out of that grave!" I googled "song I ran out of that grave." If you google this, the first link will be to a video of the band playing and singing that song, live, at a huge stadium, apparently in St. Louis. (What comes up first is an ad video. Shortly after that starts, you can click a spot that says "Skip Ads.") That is a most awesome video. You should watch it, even if you've heard the song before. Watching that video and hearing that song makes me want eternal life so bad I can taste it.

Now, let me tell you about a second video. It's about the kidnapping of Malaysian, Christian pastor, Raymond Koh. The last time before this, after my brother told me about the video, I found it by googling "Where's Raymond Malaysia." Just now, I googled that again, and did not find the video, but found links talking about Raymond's kidnapping. Three years ago, he was driving his car and got boxed in by three cars and forced to a stop. A number of men got out of the cars that stopped him, and came and pulled him out of his car. He hasn't been heard from, since. Malaysia is a predominantly Muslim country.

The Apostle Paul says that he has suffered the loss of all things for Christ Jesus, and considers them all "dung." (Actually, in the original Greek, as I have heard, he uses the "S" word.) Jesus said, "Whoever of you does not forsake all that he has, cannot be my disciple."

These two videos indicate the parameters of my search for Jesus and eternal life. Assumably, the same applies to anyone who would come to Jesus for salvation. You can have eternal life, but if you don't, really, in your heart, give up everything for it, you cannot have it. So, do I, have I, really given up everything, in my heart, to have Jesus? Or am I just fooling myself? Over and over.

 

[Samaritan Woman]

Bob812,
Thank you for your honesty. I too have OCD and struggle with religious scrupulosity (you may find this PDF https://iocdf.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/IOCDF-Scrupulosity-Fact-Sheet.pdf helpful. I will address treatment of this condition later so you can experience relief from your religious obsessions.

Giving one's life over to God comes in stages; that is how spiritual maturity is developed especially when it's in the face of diversity. After more than ten years of being a believer, I can finally say that I love God for God Himself not how he can rescue me from my emotional and mental problems (I'm also bipolar). You alluded to the passage Luke 14:26-35.

 

[Samaritan Woman]

(Accidentally hit "Post Reply too early). Anyway, forsaking everything means dealing with one's sin and if aspects in your life need to be forfeited that feed your sin or have sinful impacts then they need to be sacrificed.

OCD needs to be treated by a psychiatrist. Your pathological obsessions are related a disruption of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain which can be properly treated with medication. I have find great relief from tormenting thoughts through treatment.

 

[Aussie Pete]

In my OCD state of mind, I keep thinking I've given my life to Christ, then keep doubting it. OCD is called "pathological doubt." But I don't think my problem is limited to OCD. I have to become really ready to live for Jesus.

One, or some, of the reasons I can doubt I'm saved is (are) as follows:

I know one can be saved in a moment. So, I keep seeking that moment of salvation. It often seems to be just around the corner. But somehow, it seems I never really turn that corner. Or I don't STAY around the corner, once I've turned it. Which is the same thing as never really turning it.

I don't know how much subterfuge may lurk in the depths of my subconscious. Do I, subconsciously, think that if I convince myself that I am sincere, I will also convince Jesus that I am sincere? And if I can convince Jesus that I am sincere, then He will save me. Then, having fooled Him, I can spring back to living for myself, but be saved. Since I know one cannot fool Jesus, then I am only fooling myself, it that's what I do.

Jesus said, "The one who comes to me, I will by no means cast out." But He also said, "Whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple." So, my struggle is, have I forsaken, or am I ready to forsake, all that I have, to be His disciple?

Recently, in church, I (again) heard a song that really moves me. It is apparently by Passion and is called "Glorious Day." The most moving line in the song is, "and I ran out of that grave!" I googled "song I ran out of that grave." If you google this, the first link will be to a video of the band playing and singing that song, live, at a huge stadium, apparently in St. Louis. (What comes up first is an ad video. Shortly after that starts, you can click a spot that says "Skip Ads.") That is a most awesome video. You should watch it, even if you've heard the song before. Watching that video and hearing that song makes me want eternal life so bad I can taste it.

Now, let me tell you about a second video. It's about the kidnapping of Malaysian, Christian pastor, Raymond Koh. The last time before this, after my brother told me about the video, I found it by googling "Where's Raymond Malaysia." Just now, I googled that again, and did not find the video, but found links talking about Raymond's kidnapping. Three years ago, he was driving his car and got boxed in by three cars and forced to a stop. A number of men got out of the cars that stopped him, and came and pulled him out of his car. He hasn't been heard from, since. Malaysia is a predominantly Muslim country.

The Apostle Paul says that he has suffered the loss of all things for Christ Jesus, and considers them all "dung." (Actually, in the original Greek, as I have heard, he uses the "S" word.) Jesus said, "Whoever of you does not forsake all that he has, cannot be my disciple."

These two videos indicate the parameters of my search for Jesus and eternal life. Assumably, the same applies to anyone who would come to Jesus for salvation. You can have eternal life, but if you don't, really, in your heart, give up everything for it, you cannot have it. So, do I, have I, really given up everything, in my heart, to have Jesus? Or am I just fooling myself? Over and over.

Dear Bob, you are making it way too complicated. Lord Jesus saves. We do not have to save ourselves. If we did, no one would make it. No one really wants to give up everything for Christ. And for most, it is a process that begins after we are born again. Some people are quick to respond the the call to be a disciple, others take much longer.

We start from different places. I was like a feral cat, suspicious, unfriendly, self protective and independent. It took a long time for me to trust anyone, even God. I was born again, yes. But I needed the bondages formed in the first 20 years of my life to be broken. That took time.

All God asks is that we be willing. First we see that we need to change. Then we try and fail. Eventually we ask for help or we quit altogether. If we will simply accept that we are a mess and ask God to sort us out, we are on the way. If we commit ourselves to Lord Jesus, even if with much reservation, fear and trembling, He will lead us out of the darkness into into the light. Oh how much clearer it all becomes.

It's easy to kid ourselves. I well remember saying, "Lord I'll do anything for you". I'd been inspired by Brother Andrew, aka God's Smuggler. Then the Lord told me what He wanted for my life. Ummm - "anything but that!" So I rebelled. God was gracious. He knew what I was like and forgave me. I had to learn that God's will was the very best I could have. And I have.

Lord Jesus is the author of our faith. If we let Him, He will finish it also. My favourite verse, given to me by a friend when I was struggling, is "I will perfect that which concerns you". (Psalm 138:8) It's a great comfort. When we quit striving, God takes over. He knows what He is doing. We do not.

 

[SkyWriting]

In my OCD state of mind, I keep thinking I've given my life to Christ, then keep doubting it. OCD is called "pathological doubt." But I don't think my problem is limited to OCD. I have to become really ready to live for Jesus.

One, or some, of the reasons I can doubt I'm saved is (are) as follows:

I know one can be saved in a moment. So, I keep seeking that moment of salvation. It often seems to be just around the corner. But somehow, it seems I never really turn that corner. Or I don't STAY around the corner, once I've turned it. Which is the same thing as never really turning it.

I don't know how much subterfuge may lurk in the depths of my subconscious. Do I, subconsciously, think that if I convince myself that I am sincere, I will also convince Jesus that I am sincere? And if I can convince Jesus that I am sincere, then He will save me. Then, having fooled Him, I can spring back to living for myself, but be saved. Since I know one cannot fool Jesus, then I am only fooling myself, it that's what I do.

Jesus said, "The one who comes to me, I will by no means cast out." But He also said, "Whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple." So, my struggle is, have I forsaken, or am I ready to forsake, all that I have, to be His disciple?

Recently, in church, I (again) heard a song that really moves me. It is apparently by Passion and is called "Glorious Day." The most moving line in the song is, "and I ran out of that grave!" I googled "song I ran out of that grave." If you google this, the first link will be to a video of the band playing and singing that song, live, at a huge stadium, apparently in St. Louis. (What comes up first is an ad video. Shortly after that starts, you can click a spot that says "Skip Ads.") That is a most awesome video. You should watch it, even if you've heard the song before. Watching that video and hearing that song makes me want eternal life so bad I can taste it.

Now, let me tell you about a second video. It's about the kidnapping of Malaysian, Christian pastor, Raymond Koh. The last time before this, after my brother told me about the video, I found it by googling "Where's Raymond Malaysia." Just now, I googled that again, and did not find the video, but found links talking about Raymond's kidnapping. Three years ago, he was driving his car and got boxed in by three cars and forced to a stop. A number of men got out of the cars that stopped him, and came and pulled him out of his car. He hasn't been heard from, since. Malaysia is a predominantly Muslim country.

The Apostle Paul says that he has suffered the loss of all things for Christ Jesus, and considers them all "dung." (Actually, in the original Greek, as I have heard, he uses the "S" word.) Jesus said, "Whoever of you does not forsake all that he has, cannot be my disciple."

These two videos indicate the parameters of my search for Jesus and eternal life. Assumably, the same applies to anyone who would come to Jesus for salvation. You can have eternal life, but if you don't, really, in your heart, give up everything for it, you cannot have it. So, do I, have I, really given up everything, in my heart, to have Jesus? Or am I just fooling myself? Over and over.

Trust what scripture says about that.

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

 

[Sanoy]

Salvation does not reside in the mind but the spirit. In old age your mind will begin to perish, and for some they may suffer worse diseases and injuries of the mind, but regardless our spirit, from which our minds emerge, remains steadfast in it's resolve. Do not worry about the confusion in the mind, seek the answer of your spirit. From what I can see your spirit is dedicated to Christ, and the confusion resides in your mind alone.

 

[Bob8102]

(Accidentally hit "Post Reply too early). Anyway, forsaking everything means dealing with one's sin and if aspects in your life need to be forfeited that feed your sin or have sinful impacts then they need to be sacrificed.

OCD needs to be treated by a psychiatrist. Your pathological obsessions are related a disruption of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain which can be properly treated with medication. I have find great relief from tormenting thoughts through treatment.

Bob812,
Thank you for your honesty. I too have OCD and struggle with religious scrupulosity (you may find this PDF https://iocdf.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/IOCDF-Scrupulosity-Fact-Sheet.pdf helpful. I will address treatment of this condition later so you can experience relief from your religious obsessions.

Giving one's life over to God comes in stages; that is how spiritual maturity is developed especially when it's in the face of diversity. After more than ten years of being a believer, I can finally say that I love God for God Himself not how he can rescue me from my emotional and mental problems (I'm also bipolar). You alluded to the passage Luke 14:26-35.

Thanks. I have just now become assured again that I am a Christian. After that, I read the PDF. It is a good read, but I would be careful to distinguish between advice given by general medical professionals and that given by Christian medical professionals. The PDF talks about OCD sufferers having "excessive" concerns about certain things, including going to hell and death. I would argue, from a Christian perspective, one cannot be too concerned about those things. Until a person is right with God, one needs to be driven by concerns like that, until one is finally right with God.

 

[Leet]

This link was shared at CF, not sure if it was on one of your posts or not but you might find it helpful.
I Tried to be Saved, but it Didn't Work - Tim Conway | I'll Be Honest

 

[Samaritan Woman]

Regarding the article's mention of hell, it's emphasis is on an unhealthy preoccupation (or obsessions). I do agree with you in that we as believers are to be mindful of the topics of hell and death with regard to the unsaved so as we do not lapse into a complacent attitude. One final thought regarding formal treatment of OCD, you may want to consider seeking out a Christian therapist to help you; I've read in various blogs and articles how practical methods can help alleviate symptoms. Good luck!

 

[Bob8102]

Dear Bob, you are making it way too complicated. Lord Jesus saves. We do not have to save ourselves. If we did, no one would make it. No one really wants to give up everything for Christ. And for most, it is a process that begins after we are born again. Some people are quick to respond the the call to be a disciple, others take much longer.

We start from different places. I was like a feral cat, suspicious, unfriendly, self protective and independent. It took a long time for me to trust anyone, even God. I was born again, yes. But I needed the bondages formed in the first 20 years of my life to be broken. That took time.

All God asks is that we be willing. First we see that we need to change. Then we try and fail. Eventually we ask for help or we quit altogether. If we will simply accept that we are a mess and ask God to sort us out, we are on the way. If we commit ourselves to Lord Jesus, even if with much reservation, fear and trembling, He will lead us out of the darkness into into the light. Oh how much clearer it all becomes.

It's easy to kid ourselves. I well remember saying, "Lord I'll do anything for you". I'd been inspired by Brother Andrew, aka God's Smuggler. Then the Lord told me what He wanted for my life. Ummm - "anything but that!" So I rebelled. God was gracious. He knew what I was like and forgave me. I had to learn that God's will was the very best I could have. And I have.

Lord Jesus is the author of our faith. If we let Him, He will finish it also. My favourite verse, given to me by a friend when I was struggling, is "I will perfect that which concerns you". (Psalm 138:8) It's a great comfort. When we quit striving, God takes over. He knows what He is doing. We do not.

Pete, thanks for your response. I keep going back to it. There might still be something blocking the way between me and Jesus/salvation; I'm trying to figure out what it is.

You wrote:

"Some people are quick to respond the the call to be a disciple, others take much longer." In other places, I hear or read that discipleship is necessary from the get-go; you cannot be a Christian without being a disciple.

You wrote:

"If we commit ourselves to Lord Jesus, even if with much reservation, fear and trembling..." In other places, I read that one must come to Christ with NO reservations. You can't hold anything back from Him (not knowingly, at least).

Jesus said to count the cost. I am wondering if I have really counted the cost and accepted it.

In trying to understand what's holding me back, I also wonder things like: Do I look at life and the gospel in a detached sort of way, something to do with believing in the head but not in the heart? Do I really not think of myself as a sinner? Do I think that, if given yet another chance, I would be able to live sin-free, in my own power? Do I realize I am a helpless sinner in my head, but don't really believe it in my heart? Am I trying to save myself?

As many times as I TRY to accept Christ, I ALWAYS return to believing I'm not saved, I'm not following Him. If not, why not? If I "give my life to Christ" in pretense, repeatedly, then that question of me looking at life and the gospel in a detached sort of way becomes relevant. They say that at least some people have to "come to the end of themselves" before they will turn to Christ. Some people may have to go through some awful stuff before they're willing to repent and believe and obey. I have sure wanted that to NOT be the case with me, but maybe it is. I know a guy who was president of his church youth group while still not being a real Christian. Something happened that made him mindful of his own mortality, and that helped him come to Christ for real.

I don't want to have to be terrified into turning to Christ. But, in the meantime, are all my attempts to turn to Christ fake, superficial, insufficient? Why can't I be saved NOW? Because I am not really taking it all seriously enough in my heart?

 

[Bob8102]

Maybe my ego is a big part of the problem. The concept of becoming a Christian does not satisfy my ego, so I won't become one. Is that it? Maybe the devil has me convinced that to destroy my ego is to destroy ME. Humility equals misery.

 

[Bob8102]

James 4:10 says to humble yourself before the Lord, and He will lift you up. I have thought that ego is so intrinsic to the sinner, that it is essentially impossible for him to humble himself; it's like asking him to become non-human, to become a non-sinner. But the Bible says to humble yourself before God and He will lift you up. A consideration. Maybe my ego isn't so much the problem, and maybe it is.

Sometimes I think I'm saved, but usually not.

I one time posted that I wonder if in my sincerest moments of giving my life to Christ, I am still, in my heart of hearts. clinging, really, to self and not letting Him be my Lord. Someone responded that I am letting my sincerity be the key to my salvation, but the key to my salvation is not me but the Savior. I keep thinking about that. I wonder if I still don't properly understand the gospel and salvation. Maybe I'm not doing something right when I reach for salvation.

 

[Bob8102]

Jesus said to count the cost. The devil keeps telling me I am not willing to accept the cost. Apparently, he's right. By my sinful nature I've inherited from Adam and Eve, I'm not willing to live the Christian life. Please pray for me.