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It's amazing how the most horrible thing can happen

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by VCR-2000, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    The question wasn't about God causing evil it was "is god in control of everything"
     
  2. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    You said in your first post that "God is in fact not in control of everything". You even wrote a book about it. I thought that was what we were discussing.[/QUOTE]
     
  3. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

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    [/QUOTE]
    Thanks for the discussion! :oldthumbsup:
     
  4. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    I'm with you. This world and our experience in it is contrary to what we would expect with a good God that is in control of everything. Not ironically, the scriptures present the same picture, i.e. a world that operates contrary to the divine intention and yet it is under divine control. We are given glimpses of the extent of divine power, particularly the incarnation and resurrection, but the contradiction you point out is a salient feature of Christian faith. That doesn't mean God necessarily controls the action of every agent, but it does mean that God could stop all the nonsense at any given moment. And, it means God can redeem this world that operates contrary to the divine will.

    The scriptures are relatively silent on explaining why God chose to create this kind of world with so much sorrow, suffering, evil, and death. But they are heavy on telling us what is good, and the are just as clear in telling us that, when it's all said and done, what is good will remain. It takes faith to trust that goodness and love and life will prevail, but everything that is good, beautiful, and true depends on it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  5. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    Is God not the one who set things in motion?
    I'm not saying He causes evil, evil only comes from the heart of man. A car accident isn't evil unless someone causes it intentionally. A rock falling on your head isn't evil but god still holds all the atoms of the rock together.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2022
  6. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    History would end as we know it. There would be no past as we know it. Imagine that everyone who was ever born is alive and present. Everything that ever happened is a living memory. A perfect memory at that. The past is no more because everyone who ever lived is present. Our bodies would be free to obey our will. Our flesh doesn't serve another law b cause it's not a body of death. But our experience of time would be radically different because there is no past. Want to know what happened when Christopher Columbus discovered America? Just go ask him. No need to document the present because the past is no more. The present moment would not be burdened by fear from past events or fear of future events. The present moment on earth would be much more like the eternal moment in heaven that has no beginning or end.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  7. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    Nice insight.
    There would be a totally different system which we operated by.
     
  8. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    It would look like a garden called eden.
     
  9. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    Yes it comes down to a choice you have to make.
     
  10. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    wrong.

    Did he know it was going to happen before it happened? Yes therefore he allowed it to happen. Hopefully you would hear a rock rolling down the hill in time to get out of the way. If things happen without gods endorsement then things aren't allowed to happen. If he allows nature to take its course then its not a default action, he is allowing it. An accident is just a term you are limited to in the English language.
     
  11. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    God intervenes in his creation all the time. Nothing happens without Gods endorsement. Are you ever present everywhere all the time? Then how would you know what goes on everywhere around the world? A default universe implies things happen by chance which is an evolutionary claim. God created everything so God is in control of everything.

    If you're going to use a rock falling on someone's head story you need to speak about a particular account that actually happened, and then you need to know the details of every moment of that situation. Otherwise your just generalizing. That rock anecdote you wrote about never actually happened.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
  12. VCR-2000

    VCR-2000 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, but I'm not always "right" with God in certain ways. I'm frustrated with him because of the fact of unfairness in existence and that he maintains Satan and gives him permission to do things to people without rolling him back until the end. OTOH, I believe that if everything was absolutely perfect and flawless, life wouldn't be as interesting. It seems like there can't be a middle somewhere.
     
  13. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    Sounds like you want God to operate on your terms.
     
  14. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    I think what's really unfair is what Jesus did on the cross. He died so your sins can be forgiven. He was judged as if He was actually the one who committed the sins.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
  15. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    Which events are you talking about? Who were the people involved and what was their life like up until that event?

    You don't have the right to claim you know the details of every event that has ever happened because you weren't there. Therefore you don't know if God was in control of that event. By trying to convince people that God is not in control with a fictional story, you're claiming the world operates by your own standards.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2022
  16. Wyatt L. Aston

    Wyatt L. Aston Member

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    How do you know when God does or doesn't give the devil permission? Are you there at those events? You have the same deal as everyone else. You have a choice to make, and you can't say you weren't given that choice by claiming that its "unfair".

    Your statement is contradictory.
     
  17. VCR-2000

    VCR-2000 Well-Known Member

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    Or the terms on both ends can at least be agreed on together.
     
  18. VCR-2000

    VCR-2000 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know when God doesn't give the devil permission. I can only speak for the things we know have and will continue happening. What is the devil not permitted to do to us here?
     
  19. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member Supporter

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    God's goal is to build a sin-free Heaven. As a result, every evil is allowed on earth such that evil will be eradicated once and for all legitimately through the legal/lawful process known as the Final Judgment.

    God's jobs on earth are, 1) to save souls deserving to be saved, and 2) to wipe the tears of the victims such that they won't complain in eternity.

    So if the victims don't complain in eternity, what's that to you?!
     
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