It's a damnable heresy to say you can lose your salvation

[AdamSTHLM]

The bible says it's the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A gift in greek:
◄ 1435. dóron ►
Strong's Concordance
dóron: a gift, present, spec. a sacrifice
Original Word: δῶρον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: dóron
Phonetic Spelling: (do'-ron)
Definition: a gift, present, a sacrifice
Usage: a gift, present.

Definition of a gift in english:
A thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.

And to say that God takes back what he has given is heresy:

Romans 11:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

If your salvation depending on you and your works then it's not a gift and you have something to boast about.
Notice in Matt 7 how they pointing to their works when the understand they will not get in to Heaven:

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Don't let that be you! If you depending on your own righteusness plus Jesus Christ for salvation then you should be worried.
Believe on the finish work on the cross and put all your trust in Jesus Christ.

God bless you all!

 

[Rachel20]

I lean toward OSAS myself, but not sure where you get non-OSAS is a "damnable heresy". That seems a bit strong. Your take on Matthew 7:21-23 is interesting, but I see these as those hypocrites, who through coveteousness deceived and exploited their followers (2 Peter 2:3), and are merely trying to con the Lord here, as they did those.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The lose your salvation verses apply to people who aren't born again but were born into the church community. Due to the invention of christianese, it's kind of hard to tell.

 

[Anthony2019]

Hi AdamSTHLM
Welcome to CF and hope you will enjoy your time here.
I certainly agree with you that none of us should trust in our own righteousness for salvation, but in Christ alone. Although I don't believe that we should trust in good works to save us, I do believe that good works spring from a true and lively faith.
I'm not sure if I agree that it is impossible for a Christian to lose their salvation. Right from the very beginning, during a time of intense persecution, Christians were emphatically warned against turning away from their faith. Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Augustine, Aquinas, and I believe even Luther warned believers of the dangers of apostasy.
However, I recognise there are a lot of Christians who have a different views on the doctrine of eternal security and the perseverance of the saints.
Hopefully you will get some interesting responses here!

 

[hedrick]

I hate using NT passages as support for ideas that pretty obviously weren't what the authors were thinking about. Saying that we are justified through faith without deserving it doesn't imply that justification continues if faith ends. These passages don't speak about that question, though I think the overall NT message makes it unlikely that justification can exist without faith.

Note that Calvin never said anything like this. For Calvin it was our faith that was a gift, but justification depended upon faith. He realized that people sometimes did fall away, but he would say that those people weren't elect.

Election didn't guarantee salvation independent of faith. Rather, election produced perseverance, which means that your faith continues. Someone whose faith doesn't continue isn't elect.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The Root Of the problem is that people refuse to Rest in the Gospel.....in their heart -of -hearts , they don’t believe the first half of Paul’s Gospel in 1Cor15:1-4— the part that declares “ Jesus died for your sins”. PAST sins, maybe......REPENTED sins, maybe.....NON WILLFUL sins, maybe, but not ALL of them! The Blood Of Jesus is ESSENTIAL for Salvation— It is just not ADEQUATE by itself.Grace? Pfffttt! Being “ lucky” enough at death to have Repented Of all of my sins —— That’s The Ticket! Sorry—God won’t have it.We are Saved by GRACE, through FAITH, not “ Lucky Repentance”....

 

[crossnote]

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. ESV (Rom 5:10)

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. KJV (Rom 5:10)

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. NASB (Rom 5:10)

 

[TexFire316]

I don't know about heresy (that's a church law word), but for me, my faith is in the Father. He is a covenant keeping God by His own admission. Not because of me, but because of Him, is my salvation secured. The blood of the Son made my covenant with the Father a blood covenant. My faith is in Him.

 

[Aussie Pete]

The bible says it's the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A gift in greek:
◄ 1435. dóron ►
Strong's Concordance
dóron: a gift, present, spec. a sacrifice
Original Word: δῶρον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: dóron
Phonetic Spelling: (do'-ron)
Definition: a gift, present, a sacrifice
Usage: a gift, present.

Definition of a gift in english:
A thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.

And to say that God takes back what he has given is heresy:

Romans 11:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

If your salvation depending on you and your works then it's not a gift and you have something to boast about.
Notice in Matt 7 how they pointing to their works when the understand they will not get in to Heaven:

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Don't let that be you! If you depending on your own righteusness plus Jesus Christ for salvation then you should be worried.
Believe on the finish work on the cross and put all your trust in Jesus Christ.

God bless you all!

I'm OSAS. However, to say that those who are not are heretics is a bit rich. If they are saved, then they also cannot lose their salvation even if they imagine that they can. If confusion, ignorance and misunderstanding were damnable offences, no one would be saved.

 

[AdamSTHLM]

Hi AdamSTHLM
Welcome to CF and hope you will enjoy your time here.
I certainly agree with you that none of us should trust in our own righteousness for salvation, but in Christ alone. Although I don't believe that we should trust in good works to save us, I do believe that good works spring from a true and lively faith.
I'm not sure if I agree that it is impossible for a Christian to lose their salvation. Right from the very beginning, during a time of intense persecution, Christians were emphatically warned against turning away from their faith. Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Augustine, Aquinas, and I believe even Luther warned believers of the dangers of apostasy.
However, I recognise there are a lot of Christians who have a different views on the doctrine of eternal security and the perseverance of the saints.
Hopefully you will get some interesting responses here!

Thank you!

I believe that people who leave never was saved.
1 John 2:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

If we could lose our salvation then Jesus Christ failed to save us. That is a hard thing to say, but it's the truth.
These verses tells me that God won't forsake us:

Jeremiah 32:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Romans 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Philippians 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

God bless you!

 

[AdamSTHLM]

I lean toward OSAS myself, but not sure where you get non-OSAS is a "damnable heresy". That seems a bit strong. Your take on Matthew 7:21-23 is interesting, but I see these as those hypocrites, who through coveteousness deceived and exploited their followers (2 Peter 2:3), and are merely trying to con the Lord here, as they did those.

Well, that's what it is.

 

[AdamSTHLM]

I'm OSAS. However, to say that those who are not are heretics is a bit rich. If they are saved, then they also cannot lose their salvation even if they imagine that they can. If confusion, ignorance and misunderstanding were damnable offences, no one would be saved.

If they're doing works everyday to hold on to their salvation they don't hear His voice.

 

[AdamSTHLM]

I don't know about heresy (that's a church law word), but for me, my faith is in the Father. He is a covenant keeping God by His own admission. Not because of me, but because of Him, is my salvation secured. The blood of the Son made my covenant with the Father a blood covenant. My faith is in Him.

Amen!

 

[Anthony2019]

Thank you!

I believe that people who leave never was saved.
1 John 2:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

If we could lose our salvation then Jesus Christ failed to save us. That is a hard thing to say, but it's the truth.
These verses tells me that God won't forsake us:

Jeremiah 32:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Romans 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Philippians 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

God bless you!

Thanks AdamSTHLM
By the way, I see you are from Sweden. I've been over there on holidays - a fabulous country. I stayed over in Nykoping and a small village near Linkoping. Also visited Lund and Stockholm. I tried teaching myself beginner's Swedish - it was a challenge, but very interesting. I went to Sweden in winter so it was freezing cold. So much looking forward to going back maybe one summer!

 

[AdamSTHLM]

Thanks AdamSTHLM
By the way, I see you are from Sweden. I've been over there on holidays - a fabulous country. I stayed over in Nykoping and a small village near Linkoping. Also visited Lund and Stockholm. I tried teaching myself beginner's Swedish - it was a challenge, but very interesting. I went to Sweden in winter so it was freezing cold. So much looking forward to going back maybe one summer!

Nice!

 

[hedrick]

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. ESV (Rom 5:10)

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. KJV (Rom 5:10)

For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. NASB (Rom 5:10)

Yes. The “we” here is people justified by faith, as we see in verse 1. This passage really doesn’t touch on either OSAS or Calvinist election.

You could argue that verse 6 starts something new, but in that case there’s really no specific referent for “we”, and we still don’t have an as answer to these questions. If it’s not just those with faith it could even be the whole human race, which is a possible reading of the rest of chapter 5.

 

[Aussie Pete]

If they're doing works everyday to hold on to their salvation they don't hear His voice.

The issue arises because there is much confusion as to what salvation means. There is the initial salvation where an individual receives forgiveness for sin and is born again. This is eternal and no Christian should fear being rejected by God at the judgement. However, salvation of the soul is different. It is progressive and dependent on the Christian's willingness to give up their self life. Many Christians do not realise that the two salvations are different. The spirit is transformed instantly. The salvation of the soul is a lifetime work. The former determines heaven or hell. The latter determines placement in the Kingdom of God and rewards for service to the King.

There are verses that can easily be taken to mean that a Christian can lose their salvation. And yes, if someone thinks that we are saved by our works, they are deluded.

 

[AdamSTHLM]

The issue arises because there is much confusion as to what salvation means. There is the initial salvation where an individual receives forgiveness for sin and is born again. This is eternal and no Christian should fear being rejected by God at the judgement. However, salvation of the soul is different. It is progressive and dependent on the Christian's willingness to give up their self life. Many Christians do not realise that the two salvations are different. The spirit is transformed instantly. The salvation of the soul is a lifetime work. The former determines heaven or hell. The latter determines placement in the Kingdom of God and rewards for service to the King.

There are verses that can easily be taken to mean that a Christian can lose their salvation. And yes, if someone thinks that we are saved by our works, they are deluded.

Yes, well written!

 

[crossnote]

Yes. The “we” here is people justified by faith, as we see in verse 1. This passage really doesn’t touch on either OSAS or Calvinist election.

You could argue that verse 6 starts something new, but in that case there’s really no specific referent for “we”, and we still don’t have an as answer to these questions. If it’s not just those with faith it could even be the whole human race, which is a possible reading of the rest of chapter 5.

Actually vs 1 starts the context...
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
(Rom 5:1)
Justified is an aorist passive participle. We have been justified once-for-all and that is what our reconciliation (v10)/peace (v1) is based on.

Rom 5:10 has everything to do with OSAS.
IOW we were reconciled while enemies, how much more we will be saved now that we are His children. (If we truly have been born again).
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
(Rom 5:10)

 

[Studyman]

The bible says it's the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A gift in greek:
◄ 1435. dóron ►
Strong's Concordance
dóron: a gift, present, spec. a sacrifice
Original Word: δῶρον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: dóron
Phonetic Spelling: (do'-ron)
Definition: a gift, present, a sacrifice
Usage: a gift, present.

Definition of a gift in english:
A thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.

And to say that God takes back what he has given is heresy:

I think you are missing some Word's of the Author and Finisher of Biblical Faith here.

If my heart stops beating I am going to die. And I will stay dead until a power, greater than me, raises me from the dead. This means I am mortal. Paul says;

1 Cor. 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Immortality, or eternal life, is a gift we don't have. It must be given to us by a Higher power. The Higher Power that gives the Gift says this;

Matt. 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity (Transgression of God's Commandments) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The end here would be speaking of our life, yes?

There are those religious men who preach the resurrection has already come. That we have already received the gift. We are also warned about this doctrine.

2 Tim. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

How long to we "depart from iniquity"? To the end, Yes?

Those are the people People Jesus Himself said "shall be saved". So it is true that God doesn't give HIS precious Gift to men, and then take it away. But the "race that is set before us" continues as long as we are alive in this world.

Romans 11:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

If your salvation depending on you and your works then it's not a gift and you have something to boast about.
Notice in Matt 7 how they pointing to their works when the understand they will not get in to Heaven:

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Don't let that be you! If you depending on your own righteusness plus Jesus Christ for salvation then you should be worried.
Believe on the finish work on the cross and put all your trust in Jesus Christ.
God bless you all!

"Many will say to me in that day"

What day is this? Is it not the day these religious men were resurrected from the dead?

How are these men any different than "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord today? They believe in Jesus, at least according to their words. They give Jesus the credit for all their helping of others, casting out demons, going on great missions to prophesy about Him?

But they died as all men die. And Judgment day comes, these guys are raised from the dead, and they see their judgment. So they are saying in essence "wait a minute Jesus", don't you know who we are? We were part of a Huge Church that praised your name while transgressing your commandments. We taught men God's Commandments and Iniquity are obsolete, gone, that you kept them for us.

But what does the Creator of the Commandments, the definer of Iniquity, who came to earth as a man, tell them?

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Did they receive the gift of Immortality?

I implore you to consider these words of the Author of our Faith and more.