Italy makes vaccination compulsory

[Quid est Veritas?]

Italy makes 12 vaccinations compulsory for children - BBC News

There are very few things in the world more silly than not vaccinating children.
Vaccination is compulsory where I come from as well. We don't discharge mothers from hospital till their children are immunised. If they aren't found to be vaccinated when they come for check-ups, we keep the children till they are.

If anything, this is a lesson in the misapplication of medical studies. One flawed study in the Lancet in 1998 kicked of years of human stupidity (the famous MMR Autism one).

It is the height of selfishness not to immunise your children and to trust others' herd immunity will protect yours. You are putting your own child and everyone else at risk.
Vaccines have known complications true, but they are vanishingly rare and usually far milder than the illnesses they protect against.

 

[DaisyDay]

One flawed study in the Lancet in 1998 kicked of years of human stupidity (the famous MMR Autism one).

It was worse than "flawed" - Wakefield lost his license over this. Now he has traveled to America and convinced the Somalian immigrants in Minnesota to stop vaccinating their children. They used to have a higher than average vaccination rate; now, it has dropped perilously low. Well, who could've guessed a measles epidemic would strike? And who knew that measles could be so serious as to result in hospitalizations for so many children?
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2...ong-the-minnesota-somali-immigrant-community/

 

[Ana the Ist]

Italy makes 12 vaccinations compulsory for children - BBC News

There are very few things in the world more silly than not vaccinating children.
Vaccination is compulsory where I come from as well. We don't discharge mothers from hospital till their children are immunised. If they aren't found to be vaccinated when they come for check-ups, we keep the children till they are.

If anything, this is a lesson in the misapplication of medical studies. One flawed study in the Lancet in 1998 kicked of years of human stupidity (the famous MMR Autism one).

It is the height of selfishness not to immunise your children and to trust others' herd immunity will protect yours. You are putting your own child and everyone else at risk.
Vaccines have known complications true, but they are vanishingly rare and usually far milder than the illnesses they protect against.

Just posting to say I agree...on every point. I would feel pretty awful if my kid got a disease and died because I didn't vaccinate him/her...but I'd feel worse if they lived through it and spread it to another child who died.

 

[dgiharris]

I've never quite understood the antivaxxer argument when one compares it to the whole of history. When you look at the history books... Doesn't matter what region of the world you are talking about, all of human history has had to deal with plagues.

In order to believe the anti-vaxxer argument you have got to believe that millions of doctors, academics, and scientists the world over are all part of some global conspiracy spanning decades... Or, you've got to believe that the Hundreds of Billions of manhours worth of research and study into this problem that has plagued (no pun intended) humanity for eons has arrived at the wrong conclusion. Then on top of that, you've got to explain away the math and the hardcore tangible real life data points that mankind in the post vaccination age has seen the virtual elimination of diseases that we vaccinate for...

I've always felt it strange to mandate something that any rational person would obviously see is in their best interest. It's like passing a law that says you have to breath oxygen...

Lastly, if I were an anti-vaxxer then I'd be against the entirety of modern medicine. I mean, if I honestly and sincerely felt that the medical profession as a whole was "lying" about something as simple as vaccinations then how in the world could I trust them with something complex like surgery, prescription drugs, or other types of treatments and procedures.

 

[High Fidelity]

Good!

Hopefully other countries follow suit, too.

 

[Nithavela]

I've never quite understood the antivaxxer argument when one compares it to the whole of history. When you look at the history books... Doesn't matter what region of the world you are talking about, all of human history has had to deal with plagues.

Afaik, there were no great plagues in america before the europeans discovered it.

 

[dgiharris]

Afaik, there were no great plagues in america before the europeans discovered it.

the plagues in America after the europeans discovered it completely make my point...

to be fair though, Native Americans didn't have much of a written history

 

[Nithavela]

the plagues in America after the europeans discovered it completely make my point...

to be fair though, Native Americans didn't have much of a written history

Most plagues happened because diseases jumped from lifestock to humans. A bacterium doesn't want to kill the organism it's living in, it wants to thrive in it, but if a disease jumps species, those new species can't cope and die.

This is why europeans didn't catch any deadly diseases while visiting native america. There were next to no domesticated species in america.

Here's a short, interesting video about it:

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Afaik, there were no great plagues in america before the europeans discovered it.

Syphilis comes from the New World, infecting the old.

 

[Nithavela]

Syphilis comes from the New World, infecting the old.

Mentioned in the video I posted. This has been debunked, they made an error in the dating process of the skeletons.

The origin and antiquity of syphilis revisited: an appraisal of Old World pre-Columbian evidence for treponemal infection. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Mentioned in the video I posted. This has been debunked, they made an error in the dating process of the skeletons.

The origin and antiquity of syphilis revisited: an appraisal of Old World pre-Columbian evidence for treponemal infection. - PubMed - NCBI

Not debunked, as the argument is not based on skeletal evidence.

The first written account of a outbreak of Syphilis in Europe was in Italy in1494 during the French-Italian wars.

As per the article you referenced above:

"Among the reports, we did not find a single case of Old World treponemal disease that has both a certain diagnosis and a secure pre-Columbian date. We also demonstrate that many of the reports use nonspecific indicators to diagnose treponemal disease, do not provide adequate information about the methods used to date specimens, and do not include high-quality photographs of the lesions of interest. Thus, despite an increasing number of published reports of pre-Columbian treponemal infection, it appears that solid evidence supporting an Old World origin for the disease remains absent."

You should read your own article perhaps. There are also reports from the Americas of Syphilis on European arrival and traditional Native depictions that may reference it. The evidence for an American origin for Syphilis is much stronger.

 

[Joshua_5]

I've never quite understood the antivaxxer argument when one compares it to the whole of history. When you look at the history books... Doesn't matter what region of the world you are talking about, all of human history has had to deal with plagues.

All plagues have a cause. The current autism epidemic is caused by vaccination.

In order to believe the anti-vaxxer argument you have got to believe that millions of doctors, academics, and scientists the world over are all part of some global conspiracy spanning decades... Or, you've got to believe that the Hundreds of Billions of manhours worth of research and study into this problem that has plagued (no pun intended) humanity for eons has arrived at the wrong conclusion. Then on top of that, you've got to explain away the math and the hardcore tangible real life data points that mankind in the post vaccination age has seen the virtual elimination of diseases that we vaccinate for...

Is this so hard to believe? When you have the majority of the world believing that it came about by a Big Bang, that life evolved, and that there is no God, I can't see why Christians have a problem with believing that the thoughts of man's heart have become darkened.

I've always felt it strange to mandate something that any rational person would obviously see is in their best interest. It's like passing a law that says you have to breath oxygen...

A law that says you have to breathe oxygen doesn't cause autism is those who obey it.

Lastly, if I were an anti-vaxxer then I'd be against the entirety of modern medicine. I mean, if I honestly and sincerely felt that the medical profession as a whole was "lying" about something as simple as vaccinations then how in the world could I trust them with something complex like surgery, prescription drugs, or other types of treatments and procedures.

Most of "modern medicine" is harmful. Sure, surgery, prescription drugs etc. all have their place, but they don't come without side effects, and sometimes, the cure is worse than the disease.

 

[Joshua_5]

Just posting to say I agree...on every point. I would feel pretty awful if my kid got a disease and died because I didn't vaccinate him/her...but I'd feel worse if they lived through it and spread it to another child who died.

Don't feel so bad. If the other kid was vaccinated and vaccines worked, he wouldn't have caught the disease off your kid. And who is to say your unvaccinated kid didn't catch the disease off another kid who was vaccinated? And even if vaccines did work, what right do others have to expect you to expose your kid to the risk of autism (or other disorders) for their benefit?

I would feel awful if my kid got autism because I vaccinated him to satisfy the foolish superstitions of a bunch of gullible people and some doctors who strut about as if they're high priests of the new vaccine religion.

 

[Desk trauma]

When you have the majority of the world believing that it came about by a Big Bang, that life evolved, and that there is no God,

Are you seriously saying that the majority of people are atheist?

 

[Nithavela]

Are you seriously saying that the majority of people are atheist?

The majority aren't christians, which might amount to the same thing for some christians.

 

[USincognito]

Are you seriously saying that the majority of people are atheist?

Shush! Don't interrupt him while he's making baseless, unsupported assertions.

 

[JackRT]

Neither the Theory of Evolution or the Big Bang Theory say anything at all about God.

 

[dgiharris]

... Most of "modern medicine" is harmful. Sure, surgery, prescription drugs etc. all have their place, but they don't come without side effects, and sometimes, the cure is worse than the disease.

you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. If you woke up being unable to see out of your left eye, I guarantee you sprint to the hospital and take whatever treatment they give you...

I don't understand this level of cognitive dissonance.

If I honestly believed this anti-vaxxer dribble, then why would I trust ANY medical procedure or modern medicine at all? Vaccines are a simple thing. If I don't believe and trust the entire medical profession with something "simple" then how on earth do I trust them with something complex and harder?

And if I believed that "the cure is worse than the disease" then again why would I ever go tot the hospital? Why wouldn't I trust the anti-vaxxer crowd and take all the anti-vaxxer remedies. In fact, why isn't there an entire medical profession founded on the "Truth" that the anti-vaxxers have stumbled on to?

Why isn't there an "alternative" medical science which consists of "True Medical Science". I'm being 100% serious. Anti-Vaxxers claim to know the truth. Surely there are "doctors and scientists and researchers and academics" among the Anti-Vaxxers whom are responsible for uncovering "this truth". So, why haven't they banned together and formed their own medical practices?

Serious question. I'm being 100% serious, no snark intended.

When Anti-Vaxxers' kids get sick, they rush their kids to the same hospitals that told them to vaccinate in the first place. And then, when their kids die they either blame those same hospitals or they believe the kid would have died anyways and it was god's will...

But back to my question? Where are the anti-vaxxer hospitals and medical practices???

 

[JackRT]

When Anti-Vaxxers' kids get sick, they rush their kids to the same hospitals that told them to vaccinate in the first place. And then, when their kids die they either blame those same hospitals or they believe the kid would have died anyways and it was god's will...

"God's will" covers a multitude of insanities.

"If God had decreed from all eternity that a certain person should die of smallpox, it would be a frightful sin to avoid and annul that decree by the trick of vaccination." --- Timothy Dwight, Congregationalist minister and President of Yale University from 1795 to 1817.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

I would feel awful if my kid got autism because I vaccinated him to satisfy the foolish superstitions of a bunch of gullible people and some doctors who strut about as if they're high priests of the new vaccine religion.

I'd feel worse if I didn't vaccinate my kids based on some lies about vaccines posted about in youtube videos and on conspiracy websites by people with no medical training whatsoever who strut about as if they have some kind of super-secret knowledge that the vast majority of the world's doctors does not.