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It says that God will keep people from falling...

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by childofGod31, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. childofGod31

    childofGod31 Regular Member

    I have found some encouragement in the Bible and I wanted to share it. But as I started writing this, God started to reveal to me yet other things. And it’s so exciting. I can finally see some things that I have never seen before.
    It really shows God as love, for that is Who He really Is. And it is really really encouraging. I think you will be blessed if you read it. (and understand it). I know that as you read it, you’ll have questions and questions that seem to be unaswered at first. But hang in there, I might answer them later on. So keep reading.

    I had something really exciting happen to me in the last few months. God started to talk to me! So I faced the spiritual world. (I never faced it before, I was raised in a baptist family). So I had a conversation with my mom about it and she told me to becareful. She feels very uncomfortable when I say: “God told me this or God told me that”. She doesn’t believe God does that. She said that there were people who went into the spiritual world (had spiritual experiences) and then turned away from God.
    So this topic became very real to me. Can a person be deceived or not? I mean we know there are people who think the Spirit of God talks to them, but they are actually communicating with the spirits of the deceiver. The Bible says: “test the spirits” to see if they are from God.

    Then in the recent month I started to come across these verses:
    PSA 55:22 Cast your cares on the LORD and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous fall.
    2TI 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom.
    JUD 1:24 To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his presence without fault
    JOH 6:39-43 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me,
    PSA 37:23 If the LORD delights in a man's way, he makes his steps firm;24 though he stumble, he will not fall, for the LORD upholds him with his hand.
    PSA 121:3 He will not let your foot slip - he who watches over you will not slumber;
    JOH 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
    JUD 1:1 To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ:

    I tried to tell my mom that it’s ok to enter the spiritual world if you are God’s child. And I told her: look, in Mat 24:24 it says that God will NOT let you be deceived.

    MAT 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect - if that were possible.

    Did you notice that the verses which say that God will keep you from falling, are talking about the righteous ones?

    So if those verses apply to righteous, then how do you know whether you are righteous or not? Once you come to Jesus do you automatically become righteous and then you stay that way? Or can something change? So I looked at all the verses over all to see if I can see what’s going on. (I studied it before, but I got nowhere until now). But I had this new idea now. And I saw things differently. And I found encouragement for myself. And so I wanted to share my thoughts. Hopefully, you can see it too and be encouraged.

    So we just read some verses which talk about God keeping us (The Righteous ones) from falling. But the Bible also says that people CAN fall away.

    MAT 24:10 At that time many will turn away from the faith
    2PE 3:17 fall from your secure position.
    Mat 25:1-13 5 foolish virgins started off with oil (Holy Spirit) but didn’t make it
    2PE 2:20 by knowing our Lord … and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end
    HEB 6:4-6 who have shared in the Holy Spirit, …if they fall away
    ROM 11:22 provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
    HEB 4:11 make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example
    Heb 10:36… And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him." ... who shrink back and are destroyed
    Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
    REV 3:16 * So, because you are lukewarm - neither hot nor cold - I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
    REV 3:2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die
    2PE 1:10 For if you do these things, you will never fall
    (that means if you don’t, you might fall)

    The assumption here has to be that those who fall away are NOT righteous. (Since God keeps the righteous ones from falling.)

    We are used to thinking that it’s either eternal security for ALL believers OR a possibility of falling for ALL believers.

    But what if there are TWO sets? What if the “righteous ones” are the believers, who were chosen by God before the creation of the world, who never fall away? And the other believers are not righteous and they were not chosen by God (probably because He foresaw that they won’t be righteous). After all, THERE ARE verses in the Bible which say that some have been chosen.

    1Pet 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father
    Acts 13:48 Those who were appointed to eternal life, believed
    EPH 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world
    2TH 2:13 because from the beginning God chose you to be saved
    EPH 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world
    EPH 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined

    (I’ll mention later a problem of: “why keep the righteous from falling, they are righeous in the first place, doesn’t that mean they are NOT falling? And the problem of: well, it’s not fair: God chose the righteous and then keeps them from falling and that’s why they don’t fall. Who can blame those who fall for falling then? But don’t get distracted just yet, continue with my train of thought.)

    So as I see it now, there were some of believers in Christ which were chosen by God because of His foreknowledge of souls. And there were also believers in Christ who were not chosen. Why do I say they had to be believers? Because we read the verses that people fall away. Before somebody can fall away, they have to believe first. Before somebody, who shared in the Holy Spirit can fall away, they have had to receive the Holy Spirit first. (Heb 6:4-6) Before somebody could get spit out first, they would have to have been IN Jesus’ mouth first (Rev 3:16) Before somebody could fall from their secure position, they had to have that position first. 2PE 3:17

    So why did God choose some and not the others? I believe it’s because according to His foreknowledge He saw something in the chosen ones that He liked, that made them qualified to share in the inheritance of the saints. (COL 1:12)

    So at this point, people would say: So? What’s your point? Some believe in Jesus and then fall away. Others believe, but don’t fall away. So what’s the problem? Well, the problem is, that people can only come to Jesus and believe in Him if God enables them to.

    John 6:65 says that “no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
    and THEN, Jesus says: “I shall lose none of those He has given me”

    So there are two problems. First, why did God enable ALL and not keep THEM ALL from falling? And didn’t Jesus say that none of those who come to Him will be lost? So if God enabled them to come, and then Jesus said that none will be lost that means you can’t fall away. But some DO fall away. So this is the problem. But I think I have the answer.

    Let’s deal with the second problem first. Jesus did say: I shall lose none of those He has given me. JOH 6:39-43 But do we know for sure that “those He has given me” include ALL those who come to Him? Or perhaps there are two groups who come to Jesus: those whom the Father has given Him AND the rest of those the Father enables to come. I know it sounds like I am stretching it. But I believe it to be the truth in view of other verses.

    In another place Jesus said:“None has been lost except” JOH 17:12

    So in these verses Jesus was showing us that there are exceptions to statements. Like when we write a book of rules we say: this is true, except if a is this and b is this, then it would be this, but if c was this then d would be this….
    When Jesus talked, He didn’t list all the possibilities like we do when we write our books of law. He just made a general statement. But general statements could very possibly exclude some things or have many exceptions. So it’s very important to see any statement in the light of other verses and never by itself and never make one statement BE your theology.)

    A lot of the promises in the Bible apply to a “current” status of a believer. Imagine you have a job with good benefits. All those benefits are yours as long as you are an employee. Once you stop being an employee, then all those benefits are lost. It’s the same with salvation. I don’t think it applies to either group of people (chosen or non-chosen). I think it’s just something that explains how this believing thing works. So I am not sure where to insert this. I don’t want you to lose your train of thought, so maybe you should skip this until the end. Or after reading this, go back to the previous part to see where we are.
    So the Bible says that you CAN fall away from your SECURE position. The way I understand it is this: your position is kept in heaven for you and is secure just as long as you are still believing. If you are still believing, nobody can take it away from you. Once you stop believing, then you fall from this secure position. A secure position is just a promise. And a promise only applies if you keep persevering.
    HEB 10:36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.
    And here Paul is saying: you have been given a gift of being reconciled to God, but only as long as you still believe.
    COL 1:22-23 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation - if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

    So God is saying: here are all these statements which are true. And all these promises which are true. BUT, only they really only apply to those who keep believing. Once you stop, you take yourself out of the promise.

    And so this means that those who come to Jesus, He will never turn away. And He doesn’t. But later, they fall away themselves. But those whom the Father has given Him come to Him and STAY with Him. And so Jesus raises those up on the last day.

    And even this verse: For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
    God didn’t mean: if you believe in the name of Jesus and that’s all. Because as James pointed out: faith without works (deeds of faith) is dead. Even demons believe. So it’s not just believing in Jesus that’s required. But Jesud did not list a whole bunch of exceptions to this rule. And there are plenty of verses like that. So therefore, I don’t feel that I am stretching it by thinking that Jesus meant only one group in mind when He said: I will raise them up on the last day.
  2. childofGod31

    childofGod31 Regular Member


    Let’s deal with the first problem. So God did enable ALL the believers to come to Jesus. (Because in order to believe, God has to draw you and enable you Jn 6:44,65). And some of these were chosen and some were not.
    Many are invited, but few are chosen Mat 22:14
    Inviting was done by drawing of the Holy Spirit because it says: the people “responded” MAT 22:10. So we are not talking about those who resisted the Holy Spirit and did not respond.

    Did God force people to believe? I don’t think so. I believe when it says: God draws them, or enables them it means that He simply opens their eyes to the truth. Because only God reveals the truth to people JOH 6:45 MAT 16:17 LUK 10:21 Because we know that the world overall is blinded by the evil one. And so those to whom God does not reveal the truth simply CANNOT “see” Jesus, and therefore cannot believe in Him.

    2CO 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

    And WHY would God reveal the truth only to some? Probably because He saw that the rest did not have the love for God in their hearts (because they love wickedness).

    JOH 5:42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts.

    And if God were to open their eyes to the truth, they would also come, but for the wrong reason. They would come to “save their skin” but not because they loved God. They would come only to escape the judgement. (And that’s why their eyes should remain closed: God doesn’t want people to come to Him for the wrong reasons. MAR 4:11-12)

    LUK 3:7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

    Their problem is that they don’t want to repent from their evil deeds. God is merciful. He WANTS everybody to repent.

    2PE 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance

    EZE 18:32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

    So God would love to save all. But He needs them to repent. And I don’t mean repent as in to say: Jesus forgive me and come into my heart. NO! That is NOT the repentance God is talking about. The repentance which God expects it to TURN AWAY from your sins. Not to say I am sorry. But to turn away from doing sin. This is what John the Baptist meant when he said: produce FRUIT to show that you have turned away from the sin. Don’t just come here and think you’ll be safe once you get emmersed in the water for repentance purposes. Saying I am sorry doesn’t cut it. It’s not real repentance.

    But the people do not want to turn away from the sin. Jesus said: JOH 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

    How does God feel about people not turning away from their sin and choosing to die instead? HE CRIES!

    LUK 19:41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it LUK 13:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem … how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

    So God looks at people’s hearts. He knows people and what they are all about. There are obviously reasons why God chose certain ones to reveal Christ to them. And although I might not know all the reasons, or the true reason, I think this one will do for me: God enabled people from BOTH groups to come to Christ (those who will remain faithful to Him and those who won’t) to show the world that He in fact, made a good choice when He chose the rigtheous ones in the first place. He gave people a chance: come and taste. They came and tasted. But some liked the taste of God and others didn’t. That way He could say: see, I fed them both the same spiritual food, but some grew up strong and faithful and others didn’t.

    So I know that this little insert might have kicked us of the track. But here is what I was saying: There are two groups of believers, which were drawn by God to Christ and enabled by God to believe in Christ. Group # 1 is the ones God chose from the beginning based on His foreknowledge. And group # 2 is the ones whom He didn’t choose, also based on foreknowledge. Group number 1 will remain faithful to Him. Group number 2 will fall away (and that’s probably why He didn’t chose them in the first place, He probably knew that from the start.)

    I think that Paul is agreeing with me about the two groups in this verse: (Heb 10:39)

    But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

    And so does John 1JO 2:19
    They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
    I am aware there is also another way of looking at this. But I still think both Apostoles are talking about the same thing.

    The question is: WHY did God choose group # 1 and not # 2 even though He enabled them to come to Christ? Well, it says that God chose people before the creation of the world. (before they did anything good or bad) Rom 8:29 2TH 2:13 EPH 1:11

    So why did He chose some and not the others? I believe that God knew people’s hearts in advance. (don’t know how, can’t explain that). And that “foreknowledge” of their hearts led Him to choose some and not the others.

    But then why did He lead the #2 group to Christ at all? I think it was because He wanted to show the world WHY He chose #1. This way, He can say: see, I gave a chance to both groups. They all had been given gifts and power and tasted the Lord. But the groups ended up being different. Some were pleasing to God and some weren’t.

    1CO 10:3-5 They all ate the same spiritual food …Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them

    So it shows that He pre-chose people correctly. The #1 ended up being faithful, while the non chosen # 2, fell away.
    So once people from #1 and #2 groups come to Christ, both groups get to know Him. Those in number 1, taste Him and like it. Those in #2 group also taste, but are not faithful, don’t like it. Those in number 1, listen to God and obey Him. Those in number 2 don’t.

    So you are probably thinking: but group number 1 doesn’t fall because God keeps them. Not because they are so great. And if He leaves group number 2 alone, no wonder they fall. That’s not fair.

    But we need to realize what kind of people there are in group 1. The people which God foreknew and chose. What kind of people are they really? - Righteous, those who love God, those God gave to Jesus, those in whom God delights.

    So since I believe that the verses about God keeping people from falling refer to that group of people, let’s look at those verses:

    PSA 55:22 Cast your cares on the LORD and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous fall.

    JOH 6:39-43 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me,

    PSA 37:23 If the LORD delights in a man's way, he makes his steps firm;24 though he stumble, he will not fall, for the LORD upholds him with his hand.

    ROM 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

    ROM 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

    So what it says is that the Lord will keep THE RIGHTEOUS from falling. Not any believer. But only the righteous believer. There are righteous believers like 5 wise virgins, and then there are foolish believers like 5 foolish virgins. There are righteous believers like those who had good soil and brought fruit (parable of sower). And there are foolish believers, who accepted the word with joy, but the worries of this life and troubles made them fall away. There are righeous believers who build their house on the rock, and foolish ones who built their house on sand. There are righteous believers who read the Bible and DO what it says (Jam 1:22) and then there are foolish ones who read it, don’t do it, and only deceive themselves (into thinking that they are still believers). They are righeous believers who show their faith AND their deeds of faith (Jam 2:22) and then there are foolish ones who only believe (and faith without deeds is dead, Jam 2:26)

    But what does that mean to keep a righteous from falling? Doesn’t “righteous” already mean that he is not falling? He is righteous, isn’t he?

    Well, I think that the promises of God for the righteous refer to the fact that He will keep them safe from deception. (Mat 24:24). He will make sure they don’t become deceived with the rest of the world. And this is what helps me so much. That God promised to keep me safe from false beliefs. That God would make sure He will lead me safely into His kingdom.
    2TI 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom.
    I don’t have to be afraid of false stuff. I know that God will show me the right way.

    DEU 1:33 who went ahead of you on your journey, in fire by night and in a cloud by day, to search out places for you to camp and to show you the way you should go –
    this applies to us spiritually too. The Lord is going before us (with us in His Spirit) and by His Spirit He guides us. What did Jesus say? - My sheep FOLLOW me. We follow Him just like Israelites followed the Spirit of God back then.

    We are the dumb sheep, who don’t know any better. The Lord is the smart One. It’s His job to keep us safe.
    PSA 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd….He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

    For who is it that reveals people the truth? It is God.

    MAT 16:17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  3. childofGod31

    childofGod31 Regular Member

    JOH 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God
    PSA 143:10 Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me on level ground.
    JOH 14:26 But Holy Spirit will teach you all things

    So in order to be saved, it’s important to find THE WAY. Because Jesus said: only few find it.
    MAT 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

    And it’s God’s job to help those who are righteous to find a way. PSA 55:22…He will never let the righteous fall.
    Of course, we are not talking about “the way” of coming to Christ. Both groups get to do that. We are talking about the way as in: the narrow road of the entire life which leads to life”.

    Now, some of you are probably saying: so where is the encouragement? I can never hope to be righteous. Well, to be righteous is not that hard actually. It’s just that we misunderstand what the term means.

    People are not righteous because they do everything perfectly or because they don’t sin. Remember, David was a man after God’s own heart even though he once even murdered somebody. The point is – his heart was full of love for God and he was really sorry about his sins. Remember, it’s Abraham’s FAITH that God credited Him into rightousness. It wasn’t his deeds. Actually, James called Abraham ACTING UPON HIS FAITH – his deeds. JAM 2:21 -22 So Abraham’s BELEIVING God and doing what God told Him about his son WAS the deeds of this faith. His deeds was NOT his righteousness. His deeds was obeying God because he loved God and believed in God. Sometimes people think that their own righteous deeds is what God is looking for. And although that’s true in some way, it’s not quite like that. God is looking for a true heart. For a heart that believes Him and loves Him. The deeds of righteouss only come as a result of having such a heart. If you do the deeds apart from having such a heart, you will simpy be like the pharisees who came into the temple to pray. Was God pleased with him? Absolutely not. Because the pharisee took pride in his own deeds of righteousness. But God was looking for a humble heart. So when the tax collector came to pray, God liked him much better. So who was more righteous: the one who seemed to have been keeping the law well? Or the one who came to God with a humble heart and a lack of righteouness within himself? The pharisee was looking on his righteousnes, but not to God. The tax collector was ready to accept GOD’s righteouness. And that’s the remedy for sin which God has prepared for those who love Him. He gives them CHRIST’s righteousness because He knows that they can’t be righteouss on their own. As I said, sin is not a problem for God. He can take care of that. Just put on the righteousness of Christ, and you’ll be ok. God even said that He doesn’t even see our sins anymore. Sin is NOT the issue. LIKING sin is the issue.

    Jesus said: there were two people. The father asked them to do something. One said that he will do it and didn’t. The other said that he won’t do it, but later he did it. So the first one might have looked righteous because he said: yes father. But the other one might have seen rebellious. But later, when the first one didn’t do it, and the second one did it, the second one ended up being more righteous. Jesus said: tax collectors and prostitutes go into the kingdom before you (before the seemingly righteous people).

    God is interested in the heart. The deeds WILL COME as a result of you coming closer to God. But not before that. But what is encouraging is that all we have to have is a heart for God, and then we can be called righteous. Do you have a heart for God? Are you devoted to God? (Not to a religion or a method of believing, but to God, the Creator, Himself, personally?) If you are, then you are righteous. If you are, then God delights in your way, and therefore He will keep you from stumbling. (Ps 37:24)

    Let’s take a person from our days. The person is going to church, reading the Bible every day, verse a day, prays, participates in the ministry. Is he a righteous person or not? Well, we don’t know. Is his heart filled with love for God? That is the question we need to answer. Otherwise we won’t know. If he loves God, then he is righteous. If he doesn’t, then all his deeds are all in vain.

    1CO 13:3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

    Of course we have to remember what “love God” means. Many people can say: of course I love God. But they don’t understand what love is. Jesus said: whoever obeys my commands, is the one who loves me John 14:21

    But the point is NOT in trying to obey the commands like the pharisee did by obeying the law. The point is: whoever DESIRES to obey my commands, can be sure that he is the one who loves me. Do you have a desire, a true desire in your heart to obey God? Not out of fear of hell, but out of your devotion for Him, out of your love for Him? Then you have nothing to worry about. All you have to do now is to come close to Him and then He Himself will help you to obey His commands. It’s not easy to do apart from coming close to Him. But it becomes pretty easy once you do. So DON”T try to obey His commands and prove that you love Him. That’s the opposite way of doing things. But instead, come close to Him, get to know Him, and then you will notice that you started obeying His commands out of your love for Him.

    Sometimes we don’t feel love for God even though we love Him. This love is deep down in the heart and still needs to be discovered. So if you don’t FEEL the love, don’t be discouraged. How can you love somebody you don’t know? Come close to Him. Get to know Him. Think about Him. Talk to Him as much as you can. See HIM in the Word. See what He is like. Remember what He did for you (on the cross and through out your life and what He promised for the future). See the love. Once you see it, you will feel it. And once you feel it, FIRST, you’ll be the happiest person in the world, and second, you will start to obey His commandments naturally.

    Once you come close to God, He can help you bring fruit of righteousness in your life. James showed that some people said that they believed in God and loved God, but those people brought no fruit of rightousness. That means those people are lying to themselves. But how can you be sure?

    Peter said that you have to grow in these qualities (add them to your faith) in order to be sure. 2 Pet1:1-10 Then you will have the evidence of you being chosen. But again, this comes AFTER you draw close to God first and then He will bring this fruit in you.

    PHI 1:11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ

    2PE 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him

    PSA 37:5-6 Commit your way to the LORD; trust in him and he will do this: He will make your righteousness shine like the dawn, the justice of your cause like the noonday sun.

    The FRUIT is the EVIDENCE of your salvation. Again, it does not make us earn salvation, it simply shows that we have it. Because God made the people to be righteous in the first place. EPH 2:10 So if you are living a righteous lifestyle, you are not trying to earn salvation, but you are simply living your natural (spiritually) way, as a child of God, who is like God (like Father like Son. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree)

    So this is the encouragement: the road is open to anybody. Come to Him. Love Him. And He will lead you safely into His kingdom. You are His Beloved. He is waiting to love you.

    JUD 1:1 To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ:

    LOVE is what God is looking for in a heart. Note that the greatest commandment is: love the Lord your God. And that it says that love is the fulfillment of the law. And that it says that the church that had lots of deeds was not sufficient in God’s eyes without the first love. REV 2:4 Jesus told the pharisees: I know you, you don’t have the love for God in your hearts. Love is very important. Afterall, we are His Bride. What kind of a bride will we be without love? Like salt is useless if it’s not salty, so is the Bride useless without love. So if God has created us for love (as His Bride), then love is what He is looking for when He is choosing the hearts. So I bet that #1 have that love in their hearts (maybe deep down somewhere and sometimes it takes a while to surface, but God knows the depths). And #2 don’t. And God simply keeps the #1 from being deceived or from stumble over sins. And since #2 are not faithful, He just lets them be, and they are deceived by the false doctrines and fall away by stopping to believe in God altogether, or just cool down and don’t care (MAT 24:12 the love of most will grow cold LUK 18:8 However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?)

    Promises only apply to you if you are still believing. As soon as you stop, they stop applying to you. Being “saved” is just a promise. We claim it by faith. But on practice it didn’t really happen yet. What DID happen, is that we were born again and we received the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is the guarantee that we will enter into heaven. (will be saved). But, it said that some shared in the Holy Spirit, but then fell away. So the promise of being saved, entering heaven, doesn’t apply to them anymore. It’s like you can claim the lottery money ONLY if you have the ticket (the Holy Spirit). If you lost the ticket, you won’t be able to claim the money, even if it was yours while you were holding the ticket.

    So #2 believed and received the Holy Spirit and were entitled to salvation. But God foreknew that they will fall away. (not by what happened and would happen in the future, but by the condition of their heart). So because of this foreknowledge, He didn’t choose them. So they will lose their crown REV 3:11, fall from their secure position, 2PE 3:17 get spit out REV 3:16, and/or die REV 3:2.

    So, when Jesus said: “those the Father has given me will come to me and I will raise them at the last day”, He is talking about category #1. Because He foreknows that #2 will fall away. And when He said that none will be lost, He is talking about category #1. Jesus names category #1 with a certain name “those the Father has given me”. And that way, we see that even though God draws people to Jesus from category 1 and 2, only the category 1 will be raised up at the last day and given eternal life, and only category 1 people are called “those the Father has given me”.
    JOH 6:39 JOH 18:9 JUD 1:1
    Jesus said: I lost none, except the one doomed to destruction. JOH 17:12 So there are exceptions to the statements. So Jesus was saying: I lost none of category 1, except the ones from category 2.

    Therefore, all the promises of safe-keeping apply only to people in category 1, the chosen ones. And all the verses about falling away, apply to the people in category 2.

    This verse says that it’s impossible to deceive the elect. Why? Because they are from category 1 and they will be kept by God from being deceived. Mat 24:24

    And they will be kept by God BECAUSE they are faithful to Him. And Jesus said through one of His children: knowledge will show you the way, but love will keep you faithful. Having knowledge about the right way is not enough. Only if you have the love for God in addition to that, can you remain faithful until the end.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  4. childofGod31

    childofGod31 Regular Member

    the end
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010