It gets so frustrating

[OK Jeff]

when I'm "with" my wife, sometimes I can't finish without I think gay sex. Not always mind you. But sometimes. Then comes the shame and guilt for giving in.

 

[Joe 73]

Oh boy. That is not good. Don't put yourself to shame for those feelings. I assume you have had reasonable sexual attraction to your wife. You need to be carefull of shame. shame is telling yourself "I am bad". It is something you learn at a very young age before you can reason. you see other people unhappy and you take responsibility for it. Guilt is when you see something you did, and you know the action was wrong. shame is dangerous because you stop loving yourself.

My guess is that you probably are insecure in yourself and your gender, so you fantasize about other men to "obtain" the masculinity they have. you need to work on loving yourself as God loves you. It helps to realize that God loves all men including you with an infinite love. We all make mistakes.

When you are able to see yourself as manly and good, and your not afraid of your wife hurting your pride, then you don't worry about disapointing your wife. you want to share yourself with her. Its when you don't feel good, and you're afraid she will make you feel bad that you are afraid to express yourself sexually.

You need to figure out why you feel insecure, there may be times in your childhood where you were sensitive and your father didn't make you feel proud of yourself that spread into your whole life. or your mother was too hard to please, so you feel ashamed for not pleasing people perfectly.

I'm 19 and I've learned some stuff on my own journey with ssa since puberty. I got a lot of information through this book. If you have deeper problems(it can be hard to tell because we tend to try to forget shameful childhood memories), you might want to get it. It's a little tough because its designed for therapists.

Shame and Attachment Loss: The Practical Work of Reparative Therapy: Joseph Nicolosi

I'm guessing its one of the best on the topic. you can watch videos of the authors ideas on his youtube channel (Dr. Joseph Nicolosi). Sadly he passed away this year.

Joe

 

[RedeemedtoManhood]

Joe, you actually have very good and great insights into all of this. I praise God for your wisdom at such a young age.. Glory to our God and to the Lord Jesus!

Hi friends in the Lord!

Much has indeed happened. God is truly more amazing and powerful than we can ever imagine. He is after all the God who created the whole universe!

Through this warfare - which of course includes Living in the Spirit, soaking in God's Word, sharing to you guys, repeatedl viewing testimonies of homosexuals redeemed and reformed by Jesus Christ, praying, and avoiding any form of inappropriate contentography - I realized that the men I am lusting for have definitely decreased!! Praise God!!

There are now only very very few men that arouse me recently. And for those men that I notice, they would have to be very goodloooking and have a great body for me to notice them, and yet it's no longer a guaranty that I would be aroused by them!

Another thing I noticed, I am discovering that I am finding women to be attractive now.

Honestly, there are two young women in the church that I am now attracted to (Meaning, I can envision that I can marry any of them).

And lastly, I find myself telling God that I want to marry a woman! Wow! This was not me at all... I didn't desire marriage!

Praise the Lord Jesus! Praise God!

 

[Joe 73]

Oh man, you got me blushing. Thanks for the compliment. I actually accidently posted twice to Jeff because he had two forum posts. That thing with two women at church happened to me as well. It was small, and didn't last long, but I suspect those feelings will resurface more and more. I am joyful to know Good things are happening, because life is getting tough,. I still have some troubled feelings toward my mother(I am afraid to emotinally connect with her, and so I find myself keeping a distance between us). Then an uncle died unexpectly at 59, I never met him, but I knew his wife and daughter, and I didn't expect the sadness that I had for their loss. I am amazed at how much I have grown in a little less than a year. I can face the pain of it all, without fearing it. I am suddenly grateful, I have suddenly started finding joy in others joy. It's a little scary actually. I guess its because I have a mix of happy and unhappy feelings and it makes me confused.

I would like to say one more humble thing with the highest of humbility among mankind:
That book is really good. I got most of my understanding from it, and the rest from my life. I would recomend it to everyone going through these issues.

 

[RedeemedtoManhood]

Joe73, can you summarize what the book is saying on how homosexuality can be cured? Thank you.

 

[Joe 73]

That was tricky but here it is:

Conquer your shame and become assertive you need to get over any habbits where you shut down your feelings, and judge yourself. this helps you develop more healthy compassion as apposed to false compassion(which you try to please others so they will not judge you and make you feel ashamed) assertion is basically expressing your desires or acting upon them. shame is judging yourself. Homosexuality is an attempt to escape from shame, because it feels like apprectiation and acceptance from another man.

Abandon Illusions and Face pain/loss(including truamatic memories).
Shame is a defense against this. eg. the illusion that you have a lot of friends, the illusion that your parents are perfect and knew you inside and out. You realize there is a terrible emotional wound in your heart. you might come to the point where you feel totally abandoned(like no one loves and understands you). your face and survive this pain and realize you can live with it. you don't need homosexuality to escape from it.

Befriend and relate to Men - especially those who are attractive to you(percieved manliness). From this you learn to treat yourself as an equal among men. You become equals with those you saw yourself inferior to. Your desire to obtain masculinity from other men(through sex)decreases as you see yourself as a real man.

(Additionally may be needed) Resolve discomfort around women. Face and resolve feelings of disgust or incest toward women. These can be from your mother being too physically close with you as a toddler and/or older. eg. Giving you hugs all the time to the point of discomfort. learn to set boundaries, that is, they cannot cross lines of intimacy, unless you allow them. Stop reenacting your relationship with your mother, where your always taking responsibility for their feelings. This takes patience and time. You can't force yourself to have feelings for women. They come naturally when you are ready for and open to them.

Your change probably won't be 100% (your feelings toward women will develop more slowly than others, going from friendship into attraction unlike many others who go from attraction into friendship). Your sexual feelings towards men will mostly stay out of your life, but may return in difficult times. But you have learned to get to the root of your feelings, and you can do so when they return, and use them as an oppurtunity for growth. You also need to have friendships with men throughout your life, that way you wont be tempted to relieve wounded desires for masculine connnection with sex

 

[OK Jeff]

Thank you for posting that. I've seen this in my own life without realizing it.

 

[RedeemedtoManhood]

Joe73, what you did was beyond words, tremendously amazing. Thank you very much.

I too read the book. And this was one of those things I learned: Homosexuality is where we are "drinking" on the bodies, masculinity and other idealized traits of certain men because we WANT to have these traits,or that body for ourselves. Homosexuality is the mechanism of trying to get those traits/body for ourselves through desire, instead of MANNING up and striving to achieve that body, masculinity, overcoming fear, being strong, and being courageous. That is why homosexuality springs from and is bred by INSECURITY. (insecurity about our appearance, face, body, masculinity, etc.)

Joe73, can you pm me please? I still don't have any pm mechanism. But I need to talk with you, brother.

 

[Joe 73]

Joe73, what you did was beyond words, tremendously amazing. Thank you very much.

I too read the book. And this was one of those things I learned: Homosexuality is where we are "drinking" on the bodies, masculinity and other idealized traits of certain men because we WANT to have these traits,or that body for ourselves. Homosexuality is the mechanism of trying to get those traits/body for ourselves through desire, instead of MANNING up and striving to achieve that body, masculinity, overcoming fear, being strong, and being courageous. That is why homosexuality springs from and is bred by INSECURITY. (insecurity about our appearance, face, body, masculinity, etc.)

Joe73, can you pm me please? I still don't have any pm mechanism. But I need to talk with you, brother.

Sure.
I don't have access to pm yet either. You have to have 20 posts and 5 likes. Maybe we could get skype accounts? keep in mind there is a 12 hour difference in our time zones, so noon for you is midnight for me. We could also do google chat, I have a private email for things like this.

 

[OK Jeff]

Thanks again for the responses. It's been a couple months since this problem has plagued me. I've been discussing a lack of sex problem in another room, so I've not been on easy street there. I do get tempted by inappropriate contentography once in a while. But the small victory is it hasn't been gay inappropriate content. Knowledge is key and simply understanding some of what makes me tick is proving helpful. Hopefully it will continue to help in the long haul.

 

[Joe 73]

good to know your doing good with that. sorry to hear about the difficulty in your marriage. I would say use it as an oppurtunity for spiritual growth, offer your suffering up to God. Other than that I don't have any additional advice, but someone else might. Your right about knowledge. I have had some specific homosexual desires spring back unexpectedly. There are triggers that bring them up, but when I broke the illusion of the desires they melted away, less likely to return.

 

[RedeemedtoManhood]

these are great insights

 

[Young86]

Guys, it's not true. I will tell you the truth.

Homosexuality is much worse than you can imagine.

Befriend and relate to Men - especially those who are attractive to you(percieved manliness).

No, you have to imitate Jesus. You have to bear many responsibilities as men. Men must be strong, protective, courageous, make decisions (with the help of women) and not aggressive. You could conclude that men you are attracted to are the ones whom you must imitate but what if they care a lot about their physical looks, are aggressive or flirt or are weak, overly kind etc.?
You also must find the right women, who don't flirt with all men because many of them do it. You must do it for your own good because if she cheats or does something which will harm you in any way, you can come back to your homosexuality. You must be very selective and find the right one. If you are a gay man, you could be attracted to masculine, tomboyish women. You must be the one who is masculine and assume your responsibilities.
You must read a lot about masculine and feminine behavior and roles. Today everything is mixed up, that is why homosexuals, bisexuals are everywhere. You must know what is the right behavior for both. You need the right mentor who will help you and many examples, it is too hard to do it alone. Read about Jesus, Gandhi, or other admirable men. Read about why is good to be a man and read about the positive behavior of women, define what attracts you.
I know this things because I struggle with homosexuality too, I am a woman. I know that we who struggle can't accept some things and we are inventing our own, to basically trap ourselves in homosexuality forever. We must be very objective and not follow our desires and ideas about what is masculine, feminine.
I also know that we lesbians have some masculine behavior and desires and you gay men, feminine and desires for feminine. It could be a body or clothes..
It is written in the bible that we will not have other bodies, equal bodies, men will always be men, women will always be women. There is a great pain here, at least for me. We must accept our gender fully and stop hating and fear the opposite gender because this is what is all about. We want revenge and we unconsciously desire the same sex, to destroy others too. We have a lot of trauma. It is hard to believe but I am telling you the truth after years of struggling and following therapy.
You must be prepared that homosexuality will not pass overnight, it is a difficult battle.

 

[Joe 73]

Guys, it's not true. I will tell you the truth.

Homosexuality is much worse than you can imagine.

Befriend and relate to Men - especially those who are attractive to you(percieved manliness).

No, you have to imitate Jesus. You have to bear many responsibilities as men. Men must be strong, protective, courageous, make decisions (with the help of women) and not aggressive. You could conclude that men you are attracted to are the ones whom you must imitate but what if they care a lot about their physical looks, are aggressive or flirt or are weak, overly kind etc.?
You also must find the right women, who don't flirt with all men because many of them do it. You must do it for your own good because if she cheats or does something which will harm you in any way, you can come back to your homosexuality. You must be very selective and find the right one. If you are a gay man, you could be attracted to masculine, tomboyish women. You must be the one who is masculine and assume your responsibilities.
You must read a lot about masculine and feminine behavior and roles. Today everything is mixed up, that is why homosexuals, bisexuals are everywhere. You must know what is the right behavior for both. You need the right mentor who will help you and many examples, it is too hard to do it alone. Read about Jesus, Gandhi, or other admirable men. Read about why is good to be a man and read about the positive behavior of women, define what attracts you.
I know this things because I struggle with homosexuality too, I am a woman. I know that we who struggle can't accept some things and we are inventing our own, to basically trap ourselves in homosexuality forever. We must be very objective and not follow our desires and ideas about what is masculine, feminine.
I also know that we lesbians have some masculine behavior and desires and you gay men, feminine and desires for feminine. It could be a body or clothes..
It is written in the bible that we will not have other bodies, equal bodies, men will always be men, women will always be women. There is a great pain here, at least for me. We must accept our gender fully and stop hating and fear the opposite gender because this is what is all about. We want revenge and we unconsciously desire the same sex, to destroy others too. We have a lot of trauma. It is hard to believe but I am telling you the truth after years of struggling and following therapy.
You must be prepared that homosexuality will not pass overnight, it is a difficult battle.

But You can do both. The point of befriending those men is to break down the image in our heads that they are masculine in some way that is unreachable by us. It helps to see other men realistically(cause we get to know them), and stop idolizing them. If we find out that they are attractive on a surface level, but we learn that they really have a lot of negative qualities, then yes, we shouldn't hang out with them, as it will only complicate things, but for the most part, people are more human than we expect. The men stop being a mystery, and we stop sexualizing them.

I've also noticed There also tend to be different reasons for SSA in men vs women. It seems like being hurt by men is a common problem with women, but I think the reverse is not all that common for men. It's usually a disturbing lack of connection with the same sex, and a need for affirmation.

 

[Young86]

Yes, I also noticed that there are several, not only one factor that causes homosexuality. You are right about lack of connection with the same sex but there are other factors too.

Every person's case is different but there are some similarities in them. I had a friend who is gay and we talked about it. We were surprised with our similarities, what we want, what attracts us..So I concluded when I started curing myself and reading a lot, that men also have similar problems like lesbians just in their own way. <staff edit> Probably there are cases where things are different, I am not sure, homosexuality (and it's causes), is a complex topic.

I will tell things from my personal experience:
I was attracted to immoral women among many others. What I mean when I say, immoral women? <staff edit> My therapist told me not to do that, for various reasons I can't tell here, it is a bit hard to explain. I had to study what is moral and what is not and put it into practice.
I can give you an example..imagine that you are attracted to a person who steals things and in order to overcome your attraction and desire, you try to do the same. No, you must be moral, study what is right and what is wrong. I can tell to women, lesbians many advices, even though I didn't finish with my studies yet..I am not sure about men except that you must imitate Jesus, Gandhi and other admirable men. Men who are responsible, protective and wise. You must find examples in history or in your environment.

 

[OK Jeff]

Excellent information from both of you, thanks.
It goes along with my own observations that my ssa is exclusive to the “manly” type. Not gym rats or athletes. Where I come from that’s as gay as a drag queen. But a real, hairy, mans man. The type of man you’d not expect to be interested in men.
Also it tends to come back to the surface when my wife treats me in a disrespectful manor. That’s not the origin mind you, but it tends to bring it back up. Or maybe that’s an excuse.