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Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Jayfrost123, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. Jayfrost123

    Jayfrost123 New Member

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    How can we be so sure that Christianity is the truth and every other religion is false? Why would an all knowing God guide some to Allah and some to Jesus? Both parties have equally the same conviction of faith that they're in the truth.

    I used to think I was a born again Christian until there were certain things that bought me back to reality and after I started to question some things I had issues on. I started to think maybe Christianity isn't the truth as I was reading into Islam and how they view the Bible. I got genuinely confused about religion.

    Why do we believe in God and how is faith reliable? I've been at that state before of feeling like you're in the truth and that God is with you etc, but is God actually there?

    Cheers
     
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  2. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi Jay, does your main question 1) concern the truth claims of the Christian faith vs the Muslim faith, or 2) are you actually wondering whether or not God exists? If it's the latter, then it seems to me that there is little use in discussing the Christian/Muslim faiths until you have the "does God exist" question cleared up in your mind ;)

    So do you want to start there?

    Thanks!

    Yours and His,
    David
     
  3. Jayfrost123

    Jayfrost123 New Member

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    The first one, being the truth claims of the Muslims vs the Christians. Both seem to be assured that they're in the only truth "path" and all else is wrong. I used to believe in the Christian worldview of God highly, I'd pray, go to Church, read the Bible etc. Religion more often than not lately has bought me immense fear and confusion
     
  4. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    OK, then perhaps the place to start considering that subject may be here with this, Mohammed claimed to be a prophet and nothing more. Jesus, on the other hand, claimed to be God .. cf John 8:58, and His Father, as well as Apostles like St. John, St. Peter, St. Paul, and the author of Hebrews, concur .. e.g. John 1:1-3, 14; Hebrews 1:8-12.

    I suppose the question then becomes, can either of their claims be substantially proven? How about starting with Mohammed? Surely his claim of being a prophet must be easier to prove or disprove than Jesus' claim of being Divine, yes? So, to the best of your knowledge, has there ever been a case in which one of his prophesies has 'not' come true and/or has been proven to be historically inaccurate?

    I'm sorry to say that I know very little about him, so I am hoping that you know the answer to that question!

    Thanks!

    --David
     
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  5. JohnB445

    JohnB445 Well-Known Member

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    Because Jesus rose from the dead, which was awesome.
     
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  6. myst33

    myst33 Member

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    Yes, God is there, because the universe needs an observer to exist, as science proved.

    When you look at major religions, I do not think that the choice is as difficult as you think. Do you think that islam is about love and about truth?

    Also, Christianity is the only religion that makes a logical sense.
     
  7. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    That's one of the things about Islam, Christianity and Judaism, they all make claims on the same God. Doctrinally we couldn't be more different but at the heart of the whole thing, we all believe in God Almighty being the judge of the living and the dead. I served in Afghanistan, I saw Muslims stop working on Friday for Friday prayers. I saw them in merciless heat observe Ramadan faithfully, and no food or water in the scorching sun had to be miserable. If God isn't there what could motivate people to long to worship and serve him with such deep devotion?

    I'm a history buff, thoroughly enjoying wading through what I can glean from the pages of history. Man seeks to worship something, this much is clear. The New Testament explains this as natural revelation (Romans 1:18-21). Even raised a Catholic somewhat and always having an interest in Christianity I really never thought knowing God in a personal way was an actual option. Then one night in prayer I found out differently, but that's just one man's experience, there are other voices out in the world.

    I wish you strength for the journey and answers to these profoundly important questions you have seen fit to consider. I would make just one suggestion my friend, try asking God to show you. I know that sounds so superficial it's almost comical but it's been my experience if you do, he just might.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  8. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness Supporter

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    Hi Jay,
    To know truth requires discerning true from false, right from wrong, and a person who discerns truth must be precise in judgement, not having any bias that can compromise their better judgement, that is to corrupt and prejudice their decisions. So in that way, truth and justice are intrinsically associated to righteousness (to be "morally justifiable").

    As far as truth goes, that is what we are talking about: judging right and wrong for any given case.

    When you say "how can we be sure that Christianity is the truth", it's sort of a difficult question to answer so generally, because from my experience, I know that there are people who teach things that they say are Christian, but that are not true! .. and the bible itself tells us why this happens.

    So that is the nature of what we are talking about .. that there are people of all religious persuasions (indeed even non-religious people), who have an interest in thinking, discussing, and knowing the truth, and the bible itself is a collection of writings of people who have been of that pursuit according to a knowledge of faith in God that originates with the Hebrew people, and that has gone worldwide over the last 2,000 years.

    Jesus famously said to Pilate "You say that I am a king; it is for this purpose that I came to the world: to testify to the truth. All who are of the truth hear me".. which, when we get further into the knowledge of spirituality, we recognise that He was saying those words not as a mere man, but as a spirit that does not die: The Holy Spirit. That same Holy Spirit was there in the beginning, which is how He said John 8:58, and He is with us even until this day, which is what He promised in John 15:14-18 and Matthew 24:35.

    When we come to know Him in that way, we realise that He loves and leads people in all cultures and religions, and that is how He has said in John 10:16 "I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must lead those too, and they will listen to my voice. So they will be one one flock, with one shepherd". What He is saying by that, in more literal language, is that the sheep are common people while He is a shepherd (a king/leader), and that they are of a different "sheepfold" - that is to say, they are of a different group of people than the Hebrews He was of, in those days. He said that they would hear His voice, that is to say that He is speaking as a spirit and they would recognise Him when He speaks, so that there will come to be a united group of people from all races and religions, who have a personal relationship with Him, as a spirit.

    The only thing that divides us, if we are united in spirit and following the same leader, is our individual knowledge/beliefs/culture etc.. that means to say that although I have a good knowledge of the bible while another of His sheep might have a good knowledge of Koran or Bhagavad Gita, that if we are patient in sharing with each other and not being sinful (that is pride, envy etc), then we can agree to the universal truth through coming to understand the language we each use!

    .. So, you see that understanding/knowledge is more about a mind having a comprehension than the words of the scripture that has been the cause of that comprehension .. and yet, the words themselves are useful for forming comprehensions, so it follows that some scriptures (and even some translations compared to others) are particularly more useful to teaching truth than others.
    It is not all God's work, and Christianity teaches that this has been the problem ever since Adam and Eve disobeyed God. The underlying sin that Eve committed in the first place was to not trust God and to not obey God, but she was tempted by the serpent: "Genesis 3:5-6 - For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, and he ate it."

    We can see through all of the rest of the scripture, there has been a never-ending fight about what is the truth about God - culminating in the major event that Jesus was crucified in the name of God, while being the only-begotten of God (born to a virgin and having authority to speak and act AS God on earth).

    So the problem is that humans cannot agree to the truth. They do not love the truth enough, and it gets more serious than that, because the sin in them is what causes them to become opposed to the truth.

    What you might be seeing, for example, is within yourself, you are thinking that I am not giving you everything that you need as I say this, and you are being tempted to respond to me not with gratefulness and a holy ("without sin") spirit to ask for further clarification, but with hate in order to express some anger at my failure to be perfectly what you want. (Ok, you might not be that sort of person, but there is such a type of person as that, and that is the problem: 1 John 4:18-21, 1 John 3:14-15).

    Whenever people are tempted to act that way, they are not doing love to their neighbour - and it is always because of sin. (This is stuff that they should be teaching us in school!). So I understand sin according to the Seven Deadly Sins, and I understand love as "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". But the whole pursuit of Christian knowledge is understanding what love is, and what sin is, and why humans are so imperfect in love despite that they don't really need to be! .. and that pursuit of knowledge really goes beyond whatever a religion is.. it is the knowledge of the ultimate truth, itself; and there are people who love to think and talk about those matters and we can have good conversations and agree on lots of things, regardless of what our religious background is.

    But not all religious people are as open-minded as that, and it is far more common to get offended and hurt by the ignorance of religious people, that causes people to retreat into groups, and guard each other, for safety so that they don't get offended by that clash of culture.. that's how there are so many religions (and denominations within them).
    Have some patience when you go through this booklet, and think about what the given verse is saying in context of the topic.. because some of the quotes are a bit of a stretch, but if you really think about it and understand what it is saying, then you will get the greater comprehension and by the end of the booklet you will understand what the problem is that makes Christianity seem to be so confusing.
    Everyone has a different answer to that question. For me, there is a lot I can say about my testimony, but ultimately it is because I asked God to show me the truth and as soon as I opened my ear to hear Him, it all made sense. He has always been faithful in leading me to understand the truth that I have sought ever since, and I have such an understanding of the reality of our existence that is reliable and real, that I just know that I'm onto the real thing. But that's just me, and most people who have faith didn't actually ask God for that.
    :) You know, most people don't actually get to see God when He is with us, although He does give us that promise in Matthew 18:20. It really is about coming to know who He is, as a spirit in our midst (John 4:23-24).
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 12:16 AM
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  9. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Yet for someone who knows reality you are very confused.

    So your 'reality' is only more confusion.
    Surely you compared the claims of Jesus against the claims of Mohamed, Gautama etc.
    How did they compare?
    Please tell us how you proved that Jesus did not rise from the dead or how you account for his rising from the dead?
     
  10. Jayfrost123

    Jayfrost123 New Member

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    What a snarky comment. I get that, but how do you prove that he rose? That's the question. It's all based on faith then. I used to believe without a doubt that Jesus rose and I had been born again, found the truth, etc. etc. Now, I don't know. He might've or might not have.

    I saw how 2 major groups claim 2 drastically different things and had no method of determining the right from the wrong, except for a choice. A pick. Muslims say Jesus was a prophet and Allah is God, compared with Christianity claiming Jesus is the son of God. Islam says the Koran is God's word and the Bible is corrupt, but the Bible says the opposite. It got to the point that either way I couldn't be certain I was right. There are over a billion people for each side.. I mean, that's a big deal..

    I definitely do not think so, but Muslims would think so. Each religion says that theirs is the only true God. What do you mean needs an observer to exist? How so?
    A lot of what you said made sense and shined some light on my questions, thanks for taking the time to answer with such dedication. Appreciated
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 3:07 AM
  11. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness Supporter

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    That is not what I would say, if you can truly grasp what I do say. I would say "there is only one God, who shows no favouritism, and there are many agents who have claimed to represent Him .. but there are inconsistencies between those agents".

    In that way, we can find unity in a single premise to begin with: There is an ultimate, supreme God. Then we begin looking at what each agent has said about Him, and where there is a conflict, then we assess each claim's reliability in order to determine which claim is positively true, positively false or merely speculative. Then, assuming a claim is either positively true or merely speculative, we can find agreement.

    As you know though, that Matthew 7 says: not all who say to me "Lord! Lord!" .. but many will come to me and I will say "depart from me, you workers of iniquity - I never knew you".

    You will know them by their fruits.

    The trick that is more of a science than an art, but diverse in it's considerations and takes practise, is knowing how to tame the tongue so as to not provoke sin in others that puts up those barriers and cuts them off. People are not born having barriers, and if you look at children they are approachable and durable in that sense. It is after we have aged a bit and been bruised that we tend to get quickly defensive and closed off to potential threats (that is of fear: 1 John 4:18).

    Any time! .. hang in there :wave:
     
  12. Lost4words

    Lost4words Like a puppy, i need guidance.

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    Christianity comes from God. Islam comes from Mohamed. Islam came hundreds of years after Christianity.
     
  13. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    I was serious. Your research is sadly lacking, What is your opinion of Gary Habermas on the autherntisity of the resurection?
    or William Lane Craig, or Enhert etc

    Have you cxompared Christianity and Islam?
    How have they spread, why is it that Islam sp[reads through war and conquest?
    Why is it that Christian based science and ideas dominate and not islamic ideas.

    Have a read of the phd researched artile, 'The Missionary Roots of Liberal Democracy.'
    It looks at the third world, but its findings apply world wide.
     
  14. Jayfrost123

    Jayfrost123 New Member

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    Never heard of Gaby haberman and his view on the resurrection I guess Ill need to look at it some time. Theres been conflict, war and mass atrocities committed under the name of both religions not only islam. For example those medieval crusades in the 12/13th century. I'd pick Christianity over Islam any day. Also, you dont sound very christian in the heart
     
  15. myst33

    myst33 Member

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    Vast majority of muslims are muslims by birth, not by choice. Islam has almost no converts in the free world. So you cannot just compare global numbers.

     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 5:04 AM
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  16. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Again you're showing poor research.
    Is Religion the Cause of Most Wars? | HuffPost
    Yes its the huff post but do read the article about the causes of war. Religeon causes them. Actually no they don't.

    I don't sound Christian. No I don't when showing up poor thinking and research.

    Here is a challenge for you.
    Please explan how the universe came into being and what caused it?

    You have two choices, an unknown scientific effect or a supernatural force.
    What would you prefer to trust in? Something that cannot be understood or examined and which there is no knowledge about it or a supernatural force who has made its self know ie the God of the bible.
     
  17. Soul-searching

    Soul-searching Member

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    We can´t be sure that Christianity or other religions are true, that´s why it´s called belief, and not knowledge. There is a huge difference of the truth and something we think is true. Something we think is true, does not need to be the truth. There is personal truth, which is individual for everyone. That does not make our truth less true, but it has nothing to do with the proven truth.
     
  18. myst33

    myst33 Member

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    :scratch:
     
  19. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid ...time and time again! Supporter

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    Jay,

    On one level, no one can be 'sure' that ANY religion is the truth, if by 'truth' you mean to refer to ideas that we can prove with certainty. However, I'm confident that if you keep studying, Christianity will show itself to have much more going for it historically and theologically than any of the other World religions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 10:19 AM
  20. eleos1954

    eleos1954 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A very important difference.

    Muslims accept that Jesus was a servant, teacher, and lover of God’s Word, they do not believe that he was divine or the son of God.
    Claim that Muhammad is actually the superior prophet from God. He is the one considered to have brought God’s final revelation. The Qur’an (3:59–60) says that Jesus was, like Adam, created from dust.

    Christians believe Jesus is the divine son of God, is savior, and through His death and resurrection if one accepts Him with a sincere heart will receive eternal life through Him and Him only.
    Contrast that with Jesus’ own claim that He is the only way to God (John 14:6), and that He and God the Father are one John 10:30. Jesus’ divinity and reflection as the final revelation of God are central to what it means to follow him.

    It's all about Jesus. When looking at different religions always look to see what they are saying about Jesus.

    God Bless.
     
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