Issue of Restoration Churches

Thedictator

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How does the anti-religious movement affect any churches , Restoration Churches included ?

Well for one, they use some of the false teachings of the Gnostics. They claim to have a special relationship and revelation with God, in the early years of the Church, the Gnostics did great damage to the faith. I have seen people leave the Church thinking they can be a Christian all by themselves not needing the Church or anyone else, It has created isolation, paranoia, and in some cases suicide.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Well for one, they use some of the false teachings of the Gnostics. They claim to have a special relationship and revelation with God, in the early years of the Church, the Gnostics did great damage to the faith. I have seen people leave the Church thinking they can be a Christian all by themselves not needing the Church or anyone else, It has created isolation, paranoia, and in some cases suicide.
That may well be, yes,
but
have there not been some assemblies NOT affected by any false teachings, including NOT affected by an gnostic teaching or anything like it ?

Oh, I can see where some members might take off with such ideas,
but have there not been some assemblies that were UNHARMED by all the false teachers/ false prophets/ false teachings ?
 
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Thedictator

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That may well be, yes,
but
have there not been some assemblies NOT affected by any false teachings, including NOT affected by an gnostic teaching or anything like it ?

Oh, I can see where some members might take off with such ideas,
but have there not been some assemblies that were UNHARMED by all the false teachers/ false prophets/ false teachings ?

Yes, I believe a lot of congregations have not been affected by this movement, I don't believe it is the # 1 issue facing Restoration Churches or even my fellowship of Churches, the Churches of Christ. But it is a problem that needs to be addressed.

I am asking people here to comment on critical issues they think are facing our churches?

Back in the 1980's and 90's we faced a major problem with a movement called the Boston Movement it did a considerable amount of damage to many churches, they were cultish and caused a lot of people to leave Christianity all together. I see some similarities in the two movements.
 
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Acts2:38

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I would like to know what issues you think are the most critical or most important facing Restoration Churches?

One of them to me is the rise of the Anti-Religious movement.

Well, to be honest, the major issue is not obeying/trusting in the gospel and blowing it out of context, for those that believe that God exists and consider themselves "christian".

On the other hand, I would agree whole heartedly that there has been a large drive to "anti religious" movements for the better part of a decade now, that I've seen and noticed. Unequivocally bias against any who even remotely try to consider "religion" and belief in God, whether they follow the gospel or not.

On a side note, the gospel does say that the world hated Him first and will hate us just for following Him. It's not going to be an easy ride =p
 
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Thedictator

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Yes, I recently had someone slander me really bad because I spoke out about Homosexuality. It took some time to regain my name back. One thing I found out was who were real friends and Christians
The fakes are one's I have no relationship with anymore. If your a true Christian persecution will follow.
 
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Thedictator

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I will tell another big issue is "Church" a lot of members do not really now what the church really is.

1. They do not know the mission of the Church
2. Goal of the Church
3. Who is the Head of the Church
4. The importance of the Church
5. The relationship the Church has with God
6. and many more of the aspects of the Church.
 
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Acts2:38

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I will tell another big issue is "Church" a lot of members do not really now what the church really is.

1. They do not know the mission of the Church
2. Goal of the Church
3. Who is the Head of the Church
4. The importance of the Church
5. The relationship the Church has with God
6. and many more of the aspects of the Church.

I agree.

This could be in part that many people believe they can just be a "weekend warrior" for Christ, showing up one service a week. They then pay no mind to studying the word or anything of the sort, continuing with their day to day lives outside of that one service attendance they manage to get in.

Lack of knowledge is one of the number one killers in the church. I rate it up there among pride and such.

This is important to bring up and make awareness of.
 
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Thedictator

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I agree.

This could be in part that many people believe they can just be a "weekend warrior" for Christ, showing up one service a week. They then pay no mind to studying the word or anything of the sort, continuing with their day to day lives outside of that one service attendance they manage to get in.

Lack of knowledge is one of the number one killers in the church. I rate it up there among pride and such.

This is important to bring up and make awareness of.

Some in my congregation do not even do that, they may show up once a month, and ask them to do anything like say a prayer, serve on the Lord's Table, or read scripture is like pulling teeth. Then they get upset when we change something like the color of paint on the walls and did not consult them. Sometimes I want to tell them If you would come to church more than once a month or quarter you could have some input. It seems that the less one comes the more they complain about things.
 
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Acts2:38

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Some in my congregation do not even do that, they may show up once a month, and ask them to do anything like say a prayer, serve on the Lord's Table, or read scripture is like pulling teeth. Then they get upset when we change something like the color of paint on the walls and did not consult them. Sometimes I want to tell them If you would come to church more than once a month or quarter you could have some input. It seems that the less one comes the more they complain about things.

Yes, I hear you on that one. The "thermostat trouble" I mentioned before was from a "weekend warrior".

All in all, we have a VERY solid core of members that held out through and through and preached the word no matter how hard (they only wanted lovey dovey stuff) they said it was. If its in the bible, we teach it.

These examples you and I have though are just a sample of what is going on these days in the church of Christ. Lack of knowledge in scripture, Christ, God, anything that pertains to on how to conduct themselves and salvation, the "whole enchilada" so to say. It's not that they have a lack of help from solid members, but their lack of will/obedience to follow Jesus and His commands. The ball is in their court but they are failing to serve, thinking that God has to come to them %100 instead of meeting half way.

Demas comes to mind (among some other scripture in mind) for those who became part of the body of Christ and then fall away. One way they do this is by "foresaking the assembly". We could go on and on about this. It would behoove us to bring complete and total awareness to those that would listen, should they be part of the "weekend warrior" status.

Which brings me to a directly related situation. The more prayers the merrier. We have actually a member who was "weekend warrior", that finally has scripture jump out at her about this very topic we are discussing in attendance and study of the scripture. If maybe you could spare a moment to put a word in to the Lord for her? It was like a light just turned on for her.
 
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Thedictator

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Which brings me to a directly related situation. The more prayers the merrier. We have actually a member who was "weekend warrior", that finally has scripture jump out at her about this very topic we are discussing in attendance and study of the scripture. If maybe you could spare a moment to put a word in to the Lord for her? It was like a light just turned on for her.

That is great, one of the best works a Christian can do is restore a fellow Christian. Prayer are going out for her.
 
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Thedictator

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My congregation has large core of Christians who do most of the work of the Church.
About 40% do all the work of the church. We have one person who is a member of another congregation that is very small so he comes on Wednesdays and Sunday nights and does more than some of the others. He some times teaches a class and has helped with VBS.

That is another thing trying to get members to help with VBS, they want VBS for their kids or Grand kids but don't want to help in any way. There is so much work we could be doing in my community but don't because we can't get the help. Then you have the same people complain that the Church is not doing anything and the Methodist are doing all kinds of stuff in the community. Well they have the volunteers we don't. We do a lot with what we have, but I and a few others can't do everything.
 
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fantascey

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My congregation has large core of Christians who do most of the work of the Church.
About 40% do all the work of the church. We have one person who is a member of another congregation that is very small so he comes on Wednesdays and Sunday nights and does more than some of the others. He some times teaches a class and has helped with VBS.

That is another thing trying to get members to help with VBS, they want VBS for their kids or Grand kids but don't want to help in any way. There is so much work we could be doing in my community but don't because we can't get the help. Then you have the same people complain that the Church is not doing anything and the Methodist are doing all kinds of stuff in the community. Well they have the volunteers we don't. We do a lot with what we have, but I and a few others can't do everything.
Gee, that sounds like the problem at my church. My family, my dad and all my sisters usually, are the volunteers. and most everyone else does not like to help...
how do we fix that? is the next question...
 
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Thedictator

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Gee, that sounds like the problem at my church. My family, my dad and all my sisters usually, are the volunteers. and most everyone else does not like to help...
how do we fix that? is the next question...

Thank You so much for your comments, That is why we are talking about this. If every Christian would just do something to serve the Lord, we could do extraordinary things, just doing small little things for Christ would go a long way. An Example: We make food for our homebound members on Wednesdays and for members before Bible class, the same people do all the cooking so we only do it 10 weeks in the Spring and 12 weeks in the Fall to keep people from being burned out. We would like to do it all year round but we do not have the volunteers, we do have enough members to do it year round. Only about 10 people out of 150 volunteer to cook or deliver food.
 
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Acts2:38

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My congregation has large core of Christians who do most of the work of the Church.
About 40% do all the work of the church. We have one person who is a member of another congregation that is very small so he comes on Wednesdays and Sunday nights and does more than some of the others. He some times teaches a class and has helped with VBS.

That is another thing trying to get members to help with VBS, they want VBS for their kids or Grand kids but don't want to help in any way. There is so much work we could be doing in my community but don't because we can't get the help. Then you have the same people complain that the Church is not doing anything and the Methodist are doing all kinds of stuff in the community. Well they have the volunteers we don't. We do a lot with what we have, but I and a few others can't do everything.

We had the same similar situation we had, as you guys, about other churches doing more, yet they would not do anything but complain. This was before God cleaned house on us. Now, the strength we have, amazing. We may be small in number now but we are finally doing what we should be doing as a church of Christ following Gods will.

I would laugh at this just outta how similar we have things, but its really not that funny when you get right down to it.
 
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Acts2:38

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Gee, that sounds like the problem at my church. My family, my dad and all my sisters usually, are the volunteers. and most everyone else does not like to help...
how do we fix that? is the next question...

What we've done is hit it head on with study, lots of prayer, and lessons from scripture.

One of two things will happen (at least for us it did):

1) They will/some will hear what scripture says and obey it

2) They will/some will A] Disregard the message and continue on as normal B] Cause turmoil/hostilities C] peaceably leave/ not return.

Either way, you guys must remain strong christians.

Anyhow, welcome here. Glad to see you drop by. Feel free to join in discussion with us. This is a subject that needs to be addressed and made aware of.
 
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Thedictator

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This has a lot more profound effects on small churches than large ones. Some years ago I was in a church of about 1500 and that church was a major factor in the City. They had over 300 ministries of all kinds, we had a District Judge, The superintendent of Schools, and some local and county officials who were involved this these ministries. So we do have some in the Lord's Church who are doing great things. I see to many small churches doing almost nothing, and supporting no ministries at all. They use the fact that they are small not to do anything at all. It is sad. Some of our congregations need to read James 1:26-27.
 
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fantascey

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Thank You so much for your comments, That is why we are talking about this. If every Christian would just do something to serve the Lord, we could do extraordinary things, just doing small little things for Christ would go a long way. An Example: We make food for our homebound members on Wednesdays and for members before Bible class, the same people do all the cooking so we only do it 10 weeks in the Spring and 12 weeks in the Fall to keep people from being burned out. We would like to do it all year round but we do not have the volunteers, we do have enough members to do it year round. Only about 10 people out of 150 volunteer to cook or deliver food.

Yes, well in our church, like i said it is our family that does a lot of it. and we do send meals year round to the homebound, we just take turns cooking them or, for example, last month no one felt well, or like cooking, we ordered a big 'spahgetti bucket' and it is a family sized amount of food that we took over there. My sister sits every friday with one of our hombound ladies. (she is 97). my sister is 22. When we needed to 'mulch' the gardens around the church, it became an all day thing, because my dad and us went over there, (i have lots of brothers and sisters.) and we did it all. my mom watched my son, and my grandmother made refreshments. we spent the saturday at the church. but it was just us. our family also runs the VBS food and activities. this past season though we had to tell them we couldnt do it. My mom and my grandmother just get worn out, and the four of us left cant deal with 250 kids on our own. but no one volunteered to help us with any of it. so we didnt do it. maybe this coming season will be different and the message will have gotten through to people...
What we've done is hit it head on with study, lots of prayer, and lessons from scripture.
One of two things will happen (at least for us it did):
1) They will/some will hear what scripture says and obey it
2) They will/some will A] Disregard the message and continue on as normal B] Cause turmoil/hostilities C] peaceably leave/ not return.
Either way, you guys must remain strong christians.
Anyhow, welcome here. Glad to see you drop by. Feel free to join in discussion with us. This is a subject that needs to be addressed and made aware of.
As far as what this post has. I recognize it very very much. This is what happened in my moms church also. (and by the way the above mention is actually my stepmother, my dad remarried when i was 4.) (this section is my biological mothers church.) I grew up at my dads house. -- anyways. They also are part of a 'church of christ' group. Well there was some huge 'turmoil' as you would call it, that went down, and the people that didnt want to get involved, left. the church ended up splitting into two different groups. the group that didnt want to change, and the group that did change. My mom says it was very much about, reading and interpreting the scripture, and following through with what it says, and how it directs, rather than ignoring what the bible is saying, and what God is saying. I was too young to be in the middle of it, and really her church is a little different than the church i prefer, my dad's church. However, the point being, that i have seen that in action before, and sometimes it is not pretty. But the church that is left, Even i can tell that it is much stronger in faith and God, and in following the good book. Because before, even as a child i would question, what are people doing? Why this, and that. etc. But now, i can clearly see that they are trying to follow in Christ. The split caused a lot of problems, but it was good for them in the end.
I do worry about what will happen if our church goes that route, and really, if it does, it will happen soon. I say this for a number of reasons.
1. Because our pastor is stepping down soon, for the associate pastor to take over entirely on sermons. Our first pastor will be doing more traveling and outreach now, because we have started several new churches in Australia and Cuba.
2. Because he has recently, during sunday sermon!, told everyone that if they dont start helping out voluntarily with things, than he will start just assigning people. His example was actually Jesus. He didn't say, 'hey would you be interested in helping us pressure wash the church?' no, he said things like. "You. Come. Follow me, and I will send you out to fish for people." (matt 4:19). and people did. He told them what he needed done, and it was done, because he chose the people to do it. Not because they came to him and said, hey, do you need me to go fishing? i can do that!.
that isnt how it worked. Well my pastor had an entire sermon about it. and since then has been delegating tasks to people. So far as i can tell, each person has the ability to do what task has been assigned to them.
3. we also recently had a sermon about change. In fact, to prove the point, they rearranged all of the chairs in the sanctuary! Then the associate pastor preached about change. And asked questions like 'did you come to me and grumble about new chairs? Did you come and tell me that you dont know where to sit and what to do if your chair was different?' and things like, "or did you come and tell me it looks great!?" How did you react to change? If you cannot be alright, with a simple seating arrangement change, how are you going to change yourself so that you are right with God?'
that was the sermon two sundays ago in fact. .. or maybe three. lol i get mixed up.
but still.
so, i can feel it. things are either going to start getting more 'riled up' or people will leave. or maybe we could get a lot more people coming in. but either way, its all moving around.
 
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Acts2:38

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Yes, well in our church, like i said it is our family that does a lot of it. and we do send meals year round to the homebound, we just take turns cooking them or, for example, last month no one felt well, or like cooking, we ordered a big 'spahgetti bucket' and it is a family sized amount of food that we took over there. My sister sits every friday with one of our hombound ladies. (she is 97). my sister is 22. When we needed to 'mulch' the gardens around the church, it became an all day thing, because my dad and us went over there, (i have lots of brothers and sisters.) and we did it all. my mom watched my son, and my grandmother made refreshments. we spent the saturday at the church. but it was just us. our family also runs the VBS food and activities. this past season though we had to tell them we couldnt do it. My mom and my grandmother just get worn out, and the four of us left cant deal with 250 kids on our own. but no one volunteered to help us with any of it. so we didnt do it. maybe this coming season will be different and the message will have gotten through to people...

As far as what this post has. I recognize it very very much. This is what happened in my moms church also. (and by the way the above mention is actually my stepmother, my dad remarried when i was 4.) (this section is my biological mothers church.) I grew up at my dads house. -- anyways. They also are part of a 'church of christ' group. Well there was some huge 'turmoil' as you would call it, that went down, and the people that didnt want to get involved, left. the church ended up splitting into two different groups. the group that didnt want to change, and the group that did change. My mom says it was very much about, reading and interpreting the scripture, and following through with what it says, and how it directs, rather than ignoring what the bible is saying, and what God is saying. I was too young to be in the middle of it, and really her church is a little different than the church i prefer, my dad's church. However, the point being, that i have seen that in action before, and sometimes it is not pretty. But the church that is left, Even i can tell that it is much stronger in faith and God, and in following the good book. Because before, even as a child i would question, what are people doing? Why this, and that. etc. But now, i can clearly see that they are trying to follow in Christ. The split caused a lot of problems, but it was good for them in the end.
I do worry about what will happen if our church goes that route, and really, if it does, it will happen soon. I say this for a number of reasons.
1. Because our pastor is stepping down soon, for the associate pastor to take over entirely on sermons. Our first pastor will be doing more traveling and outreach now, because we have started several new churches in Australia and Cuba.
2. Because he has recently, during sunday sermon!, told everyone that if they dont start helping out voluntarily with things, than he will start just assigning people. His example was actually Jesus. He didn't say, 'hey would you be interested in helping us pressure wash the church?' no, he said things like. "You. Come. Follow me, and I will send you out to fish for people." (matt 4:19). and people did. He told them what he needed done, and it was done, because he chose the people to do it. Not because they came to him and said, hey, do you need me to go fishing? i can do that!.
that isnt how it worked. Well my pastor had an entire sermon about it. and since then has been delegating tasks to people. So far as i can tell, each person has the ability to do what task has been assigned to them.
3. we also recently had a sermon about change. In fact, to prove the point, they rearranged all of the chairs in the sanctuary! Then the associate pastor preached about change. And asked questions like 'did you come to me and grumble about new chairs? Did you come and tell me that you dont know where to sit and what to do if your chair was different?' and things like, "or did you come and tell me it looks great!?" How did you react to change? If you cannot be alright, with a simple seating arrangement change, how are you going to change yourself so that you are right with God?'
that was the sermon two sundays ago in fact. .. or maybe three. lol i get mixed up.
but still.
so, i can feel it. things are either going to start getting more 'riled up' or people will leave. or maybe we could get a lot more people coming in. but either way, its all moving around.

Prayers will go out for the situation you guys are going through. You guys are another example of why thedictator started this thread.

I'm sure this has always been a problem as there are so many different religions and such, but I can't help but feel things seem so anti religious and passive-aggressive these days more so than when I was younger.

Sounds like, from what you typed up here, that you guys are hitting the exact same path we went through. We didn't rearrange our chairs, but our minister did reach a point in saying that if we are not going to follow scripture, he will go somewhere else. It was really a scary time. If you were to walk in on those times you could instantly tell the "lampstand" was in jeopardy for us.

He had already been there for 5-6 years by then and was like, "I taught scripture to you all, and if your not going to heed it or follow it after this amount of time, I will go somewhere else that needs me". Ya he was about ready to shake the dust from his shoes. Needless to say, he stayed with us through the hard times, helped pick us back up again through the word, and eventually ended up leaving since he saw that we were much stronger than before. He stayed with us instead of leaving because he saw that enough of us really wanted to follow and obey scripture.

We saw that another church needed him more than we at the time, so it was time for us to part ways. It turned out that after he left, we instantly grabbed a member we had that use to preach long ago elsewhere. However, once he got up there to teach, because we were much stronger in the word and obedience to the gospel, we found that he was actually pulling sermons from other baptists preachers from their online websites saved sermons and leaned toward such ideals. God saw fit to clean house on us a second time in a 5 year span as we put scripture in front of these people til they made their decision to unfortunately leave instead of obey scripture.

After that, we had what was left of the men, take over for sermons and study for about a year and a half before we finally found are current minister that fits with us like a piece of a puzzle. We are blessed to have found such a one that can further teach us and help us grow.

The minister that moved on was great for us to get started and established, which seems to be his gift since he finds "down and out" churches (since he left he has been to 4-5 churches) and moves there and helps them.

The minister we have now, seems to be very gifted at continuing to have an already strong group, keep on learning.

You guys stick with scripture and obedience to God, you will not fail no matter what, even if you loose the building itself. You guys hang strong in Christ.
 
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