Israel

[Evangelion]

Nice dodge.

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by Evangelion
David Gould -



...and we have recognised their right to the land. (Haven't you heard of "Native Title"?)

We have recognise their right to the land?

What a joke.

Hang on, we have not handed back Sydney or Melbourne; we have not all left in ships to return to England. There is no aborigianal law that covers us; there is no aboriginal parliament ruling over us.

Land worth billions and billions of dollars and we have given them nothing in exchange? Pastoral and mining leases extiguish native title. What a joke...

 

[David Gould]

And as I said previously - nations exist in the mind, not on the map.

No-one addressed my US example on this.

 

[vegan]

Originally posted by David Gould
Which points do you want me to address? I see none.

Honestly, I dont care what you address.  As I said, Israel was attacked.  Israel won.  Israel took the land that the Arabs attacked from.  Israel took the land that was theirs to begin with.

Missles can fly over these buffer zones.  No doubt.  I wouldnt argue that. 

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by vegan
Honestly, I dont care what you address.  As I said, Israel was attacked.  Israel won.  Israel took the land that the Arabs attacked from.  Israel took the land that was theirs to begin with.

Missles can fly over these buffer zones.  No doubt.  I wouldnt argue that. 

And because Israel was attacked and took the land they should be allowed to keep it?

2nd World War - Germany attacked France and England. Germany was beaten. The land is now back in German hands.

This has lead to better relations between people than if it had been occupied. Surely that is a very good reason for Israel to give the land back - the promotion of good will and the looking to future peace rather than back at past hostilities?

This is why I despair - the revenge mentality of humanity. Why does not Israel start the process of forgiveness? As the victor, they can afford to be generous. And the price may well be repaid many times over.

 

[vegan]

Are you equating Hitler's aggression with the agressive attacks on Israel? My goodness! Sir, if I hit you with a brick, you would be a fool to return the brick just because it is mine!

 

[vegan]

David-
I see by your profile you are a socialist who may or may not like che (you named your cat after him, but that doesnt say much).

Tell me, should Castro give back the property he stole from the rich and middle class? just curious.

 

[Evangelion]

David Gould -

We have recognise their right to the land?

*snip*

Yep. What would you call "Native Title"? Come on - I want an answer.

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by vegan
Are you equating Hitler's aggression with the agressive attacks on Israel? My goodness! Sir, if I hit you with a brick, you would be a fool to return the brick just because it is mine!

Yes, I am equating Hitler's aggression (war of conquest) with the attacks on Israel. What is wrong with that? Are you saying that France and Britain were foolish to give back German land to Germany?

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by Evangelion
David Gould -



*snip*

Yep. What would you call "Native Title"? Come on - I want an answer.

A pathetic excuse for the compensation that should be given to the Aboriginals, but perhaps it may be a begginning to something brighter.

 

[Evangelion]

David Gould -

And as I said previously - nations exist in the mind, not on the map.

*snip*

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Israel clearly existed on the map.

A point which you have yet to address...

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by vegan
David-
I see by your profile you are a socialist who may or may not like che (you named your cat after him, but that doesnt say much).

Tell me, should Castro give back the property he stole from the rich and middle class? just curious.

It would depend on how the rich and the middle class got that property.

Do you really want to get into a capitalism/socialism debate now? Is it relevant?

 

[Evangelion]

Still no answer on the history of Israel, the lack of a legitimate Palestinian claim, and the blatant admission by Palestinians that this land was never theirs to begin with...

But hey, I didn't expect one.

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by Evangelion
David Gould -



*snip*

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Israel clearly existed on the map.

A point which you have yet to address...

 

Israel existed on the map.

And?

The roman empire existed on the map. It doesn't today.

I want to know what the fact that israel once existed has to do with their right to exist now. (by the way - I think they do have a right to exist now, just that past names on maps have absolutely nothing to do with that right.)

 

[Evangelion]

David Gould -

Israel existed on the map.

And?

...and never ceased to exist on the map. And still does.

The roman empire existed on the map. It doesn't today.

Irrelevant. Israel did, and continues to do so.

I want to know what the fact that israel once existed has to do with their right to exist now.

*snip*

Because they never ceased to exist, and therefore their claim is legitimate.

Don't you get it?

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by Evangelion
David Gould -

Don't you get it?

No.

If they never ceased to exist, how come they had to be given their land back? Wasn't it occupied by someone else? I do not understand your point.

 

[Evangelion]

They existed as a nation which periodically suffered foreign occupation.

This point alone proves that they continued to exist as a nation.

Now do you see the point?

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by Evangelion
They existed as a nation which periodically suffered foreign occupation.

This point alone proves that they continued to exist as a nation.

Now do you see the point?

No. If I occupy your country and install a government and run your country and tax your country, in what sense do you exist as a nation except in the mind?

And that i smy point - the mind is where all countries exist. Names on a map are irrelvant.

 

[David Gould]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Still no answer on the history of Israel, the lack of a legitimate Palestinian claim, and the blatant admission by Palestinians that this land was never theirs to begin with...

But hey, I didn't expect one.

Because the history of Israel is irrelevant, you claim no legitimacy but as I do not understand what your basis for a legitimate claim actually is I cannot really comment, and I do not care what 'the Palestinians' (by which you mean one individual Palestinian, I assume) claimed at some time or other. They claim they lived there, it is clear that they did and were pushed out, thus israel should give them the occupied territories. It is called sharing. It is a good thing to try.

 

[David Gould]

For someone who hates debating this topic I sure got dragged in, didn't I?