Israel

fin

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I read this essay recently. I found it very interesting.

          Israel is a country that was founded as a haven for a besieged people, a people who have fought persecution and oppression for many generations. The Jewish people have borne the blame for countless sins. They have been the target of fierce hatred. A few times they have even been the victim of attempted genocide. Yet miraculously they have survived; they have won the battle for the right to exist. Their inner strength and their faith have carried them through the harsh times. They have, against all odds, created a homeland and become a powerful nation. And yet now as the Jewish people hold success in their hands they are threatened by an enemy greater than Hitler.
          With America’s support Israel has become more secure than ever before. They now, however, are coming perilously close to becoming what they once despised. After living under the oppressor’s heel for generations, they are becoming the oppressor. They have cast off their chains just to put them on someone else. War crimes, atrocities, racism, and murder: Israel has taken up the tools used by their enemy, the tools still wet with their own blood. They appear to be quickly learning how to use them.
          The grandparents fought hatred, anger, and racism. The children are filled with hate, anger, and an undying sense of racial superiority. The nation of Israel is quickly becoming all that it used to despise. Unless the children regain the courage and love of their ancestors, they are a defeated nation. Israel has gained the world at the expense of its soul. The people of Israel stagger under the burden of a spiritual defeat.
          There is, however, still hope for Israel. There is always hope when there are a few people willing to speak against hate. A growing minority in Israel is repulsed by their country’s actions. We can only hope they are successful in persuading their fellow citizens to open their eyes to the pain of their victims. Only when the people of Israel learn compassion can they claim victory. Only then will they be free from the hand of their oppressor.

Your opinions?
 

ZiSunka

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A friend of mine who lives in Israel says that the nation is becoming more and more secular. A recent study reported that about 30% of Israelis consider themselves to be atheists or near-atheist. About 20% more said that they do not practice the Jewish faith, or any faith. About ten percent of those who consider themselves religious Jews doubt whether or not God exists anymore. That means that around 60% of Israelis do not worship God in any meaningful way. Even among religious Jews, 40% found homosexuality and abortion to be acceptable things.

So, if Israel is becoming more like their enemies as far as hatred, racism and violence goes, it shouldn't surprise anyone. Love, peace and kindness are moral choices, and with no moral compass to go by, it is difficult to make good moral choices. If they are living in the here-and-now with little faith in God's ability to preserve them, they must feel they have no choice but to retaliate and be on the offensive against their enemies!
 
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Evangelion

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Two points:
  • The modern nation of Israel was secular from the very beginning. It was never intended to be otherwise, and that is a good thing.
  • Yes, Israel is currently practicing the same intolerance that led to the persecution of her people throughout history. That is why I support Israel in principle, but not always in practice.
Errare humanum est. :cool:
 
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Sauron

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Originally posted by fin
I read this essay recently. I found it very interesting.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Israel is a country that was founded as a haven for a besieged people, a people who have fought persecution and oppression for many generations. The Jewish people have borne the blame for countless sins. They have been the target of fierce hatred. A few times they have even been the victim of attempted genocide. Yet miraculously they have survived; they have won the battle for the right to exist. Their inner strength and their faith have carried them through the harsh times. They have, against all odds, created a homeland and become a powerful nation. And yet now as the Jewish people hold success in their hands they are threatened by an enemy greater than Hitler.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; With America’s support Israel has become more secure than ever before. They now, however, are coming perilously close to becoming what they once despised. After living under the oppressor’s heel for generations, they are becoming the oppressor. They have cast off their chains just to put them on someone else. War crimes, atrocities, racism, and murder: Israel has taken up the tools used by their enemy, the tools still wet with their own blood. They appear to be quickly learning how to use them.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The grandparents fought hatred, anger, and racism. The children are filled with hate, anger, and an undying sense of racial superiority. The nation of Israel is quickly becoming all that it used to despise. Unless the children regain the courage and love of their ancestors, they are a defeated nation. Israel has gained the world at the expense of its soul. The people of Israel stagger under the burden of a spiritual defeat.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There is, however, still hope for Israel. There is always hope when there are a few people willing to speak against hate. A growing minority in Israel is repulsed by their country’s actions. We can only hope they are successful in persuading their fellow citizens to open their eyes to the pain of their victims. Only when the people of Israel learn compassion can they claim victory. Only then will they be free from the hand of their oppressor.

Your opinions?

You know the old story that the children of abused parents, turn out to be abusers themselves when they grow up and have kids?

I've always wondered if that didn't hold true for countries, as well as for individual people.&nbsp; Israel is an example of that.&nbsp;

Having been victims of atrocities, they rationalize their behavior away with the same callousness that their former oppressors used.

&nbsp;:confused:
 
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fin

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"I support Israel in principle, but not always in practice."

Whats that mean?

"I love Israel and the Israelis! They are God's people and to go against that is not cool."

"God's people" do not seem to care about their fellow humans. Does their association with God allow them to ignore merci, juctice, freedom, and truth?
 
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ferment8

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God's people are everyone who believes in God... not onli the Israelis....

i don't know whether or not to support Israel, because from what i've seen on TV, Israel is just like any other country, taking revenge on enemies that attacked them.... I don't really see a God led country anymore.
 
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Evangelion

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ferment8 -

God's people are everyone who believes in God... not onli the Israelis....

I agree with this in principle.

i don't know whether or not to support Israel, because from what i've seen on TV, Israel is just like any other country, taking revenge on enemies that attacked them.... I don't really see a God led country anymore.

No-one's claiming that Israel is a "God-led country." :cool:
 
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tamtam92

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They are God's people and to go against that is not cool.

False.
They were God's people but now it's different. Only christians are God's people, and God's children. No one else.
Israelis are not God's people even more. How could they ? They've rejected his Son !!!
 
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fin

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I dislike it when a group of people are called "god's people". It is a very ethnocentric attitude. There is no group of people who can claim exclusive rights to God. God is not limited by culture, religion, nationality, or ethnicity. God does not play favorites.

I guess my orriginal question was why do Americans support Israel (in theory, practice, etc.) when Israel is commiting so many atrocities? Why do Americans (and others) feel that Israel has the right to a homeland and Palistine does not?
 
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smurfy2day

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Originally posted by fin


"I love Israel and the Israelis! They are God's people and to go against that is not cool."

"God's people" do not seem to care about their fellow humans. Does their association with God allow them to ignore merci, juctice, freedom, and truth?

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

God clearly tells us there is a time to kill. If that means ridding the place of evil people like Palesitians, who btw, are claiming land that they have ABSOLUTELY no rights to, then by all means go for it.

There IS NO PALESTINE..... get it?!
 
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tamtam92

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???? :eek: :eek: :eek:
I'm shocked...

No Palestine ??? How can you say that ? Haven't those people the right to live ? They were in this land before modern Israel.

A time to kill ??? How to love your neighbor then ? You're totally mistaken !!!! We are no more in the old testament !!!

Unless you give to palestinians a land, there will remain a problem.
 
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fin

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"God clearly tells us there is a time to kill. If that means ridding the place of evil people like Palesitians, who btw, are claiming land that they have ABSOLUTELY no rights to, then by all means go for it."

We clearly do not have the same God, morals, or ethical system. Are you advocating genocide? This is the ethical system of Hitler.
 
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smurfy2day

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No, but I am saying these people can not call themselves, "palestinians" WHEN THERE IS NO PALESTINE!


Whether they like it or NOT they are Israelis, as long as they live in the country of Israel. If you can point to a map where it shows the country of "Palestine" (which is IMPOSSIBLE because it does not exist) then I will gladly retract my statement.

But as long as those people are blowing up innocent Israelis, then whatever happens to them is fine with me.
 
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