Israel wasn't in Palestine but in Arabia?

grasping the after wind

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According to the Kebra Nagast, the biblical Israel was not in Palestine but in Western Arabia.
What do you think about it?

source: https://www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/Sheba.pdf (Chapter 5)

There was never any Palestine in ancient times and we have solid archeological and historical evidence that tells us exactly where the ancient Israel was. I don't think this book you mentioned written in the 1300s is a better source than the multitude of other sources, many which are sources from civilizations ( Babylonian, Assyrian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman for instance)contemporary to the ancient state of Israel, that all agree upon the location of ancient Israel.
 
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colen

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There was never any Palestine in ancient times and we have solid archeological and historical evidence that tells us exactly where the ancient Israel was. I don't think this book you mentioned written in the 1300s is a better source than the multitude of other sources, many which are sources from civilizations ( Babylonian, Assyrian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman for instance)contemporary to the ancient state of Israel, that all agree upon the location of ancient Israel.

How do you know that these sources are authentic? The ancient Egyptians, for example, believed that cats were gods and also claimed that the ancient Cush was in Nubia, which would contradict the Bible. Do you really want to believe them?

Why are there no satisfying Archerlogical findings in Palestine (today's "Israel")?
Why does Arabia refuse to carry out excavations in Western Arabia? And why are almost all biblical place names found in Western Arabia? Very strange.
 
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Albion

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According to the Kebra Nagast, the biblical Israel was not in Palestine but in Western Arabia.
What do you think about it?)
For that to be true, a lot of place names and locations given in the Bible would have to be changed. So, no.
 
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colen

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For that to be true, a lot of place names and locations given in the Bible would have to be changed. So, no.
Nothing would have to be changed. Names should just be left as they are.
In many Bible translations for example "Egypt" is written, but this word is nowhere in the Bible, the word that is wrongly written as Egypt is "Msrm", this is how ancient Egypt was never called, Egypt was formerly called "Kemet" which means "Black Land", the place that is called "Msrm" in the Bible is not in Egypt but in Western Arabia. People have changed place names to support their theory, but if the names were to be kept in ancient Hebrew, they would almost all be found in Western Arabia.
 
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dzheremi

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I think these sorts of things might be part of the reason why the Ethiopian Orthodox Church itself -- the religious and cultural institution in which the Kebra Nagast was born -- does not accept it as being in any way canonical or authoritative in religious contexts (it is a national epic, not a religious text). I am not EOTC, but from what I understand it is taken to be a history of the establishment of the Solomonic line which was important for Ethiopia religiously and culturally. That is to say its primary is not to teach correct geography or in any way upend the Holy Bible, but to give a spiritual and historical backing to the Ethiopian/Axumite monarchy (the one which Ethiopia maintained until its violent end by the Derg in 1974).
 
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colen

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I think these sorts of things might be part of the reason why the Ethiopian Orthodox Church itself -- the religious and cultural institution in which the Kebra Nagast was born -- does not accept it as being in any way canonical or authoritative in religious contexts (it is a national epic, not a religious text). I am not EOTC, but from what I understand it is taken to be a history of the establishment of the Solomonic line which was important for Ethiopia religiously and culturally. That is to say its primary is not to teach correct geography or in any way upend the Holy Bible, but to give a spiritual and historical backing to the Ethiopian/Axumite monarchy (the one which Ethiopia maintained until its violent end by the Derg in 1974).
Why? They could also say that Israel was in Palestine and still back up their history. So why should they spread false information when they don't even need it?
 
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Albion

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Nothing would have to be changed. Names should just be left as they are.
Okay, if you think so. Explain how Bethlehem, Nazareth, Jerusalem, Samaria, the Jordan River, and the Dead Sea are actually in Western (Saudi) Arabia by whatever name.
 
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colen

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Okay, if you think so. Explain how Bethlehem, Nazareth, Jerusalem, Samaria, the Jordan River, and the Dead Sea are actually in Western (Saudi) Arabia by whatever name.
"He reasoned that the word H-yrdn, translated in the Hebrew Bible as the River Jordan, was not a river at all but the Tehama mountain ridge that rises sharply from the Red Sea coastal plain. He placed Old Jerusalem, the City of Zion, and the City of David at separate locations, Jerusalem near An Nimas south of Taif, and stated that the “Egypt” and “Ethiopia” of the Old Testament mostly did not refer to those countries at all but to two cities named Msrm and Kws (Cush/Kush). These were all situated in the highland area controlling trade routes from Yemen to the north."

if you want more: https://www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/Sheba.pdf
 
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Radagast

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According to the Kebra Nagast, the biblical Israel was not in Palestine but in Western Arabia.

That's just nonsense, I'm afraid. It really is just about the silliest idea I've ever seen.

Why are there no satisfying Archerlogical findings in Palestine (today's "Israel")?

There are. Many, many archaeological findings.

"He reasoned that the word H-yrdn, translated in the Hebrew Bible as the River Jordan, was not a river at all but the Tehama mountain ridge

Joshua 3:13: And when the soles of the feet of the priests bearing the ark of the Lord, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of the Jordan, the waters of the Jordan shall be cut off from flowing, and the waters coming down from above shall stand in one heap.”

Joshua 3:15: and as soon as those bearing the ark had come as far as the Jordan, and the feet of the priests bearing the ark were dipped in the brink of the water (now the Jordan overflows all its banks throughout the time of harvest),

Matthew 3:6: and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.
 
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Radagast

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There was never any Palestine in ancient times

Of course there was. The term is derived from "Philistine," and cities like Gaza are mentioned in the Bible.

The name "Palestine" was used by the Romans after Hadrian to refer to the entire region, including what is now Israel.

and we have solid archeological and historical evidence that tells us exactly where the ancient Israel was. I don't think this book you mentioned written in the 1300s is a better source than the multitude of other sources, many which are sources from civilizations ( Babylonian, Assyrian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman for instance)contemporary to the ancient state of Israel, that all agree upon the location of ancient Israel.

Exactly.
 
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colen

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There are. Many, many archaeological findings.
There is no satisfying archaeological find.

Joshua 3:13: And when the soles of the feet of the priests bearing the ark of the Lord, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of the Jordan, the waters of the Jordan shall be cut off from flowing, and the waters coming down from above shall stand in one heap.”

Joshua 3:15: and as soon as those bearing the ark had come as far as the Jordan, and the feet of the priests bearing the ark were dipped in the brink of the water (now the Jordan overflows all its banks throughout the time of harvest),
In the biblical "Jordan" there is a word root with the meaning "to descend, fall down". The term "Jordan" is a topographical term and almost always means steep slope, mountain ridge.

Salibi supports his assertion with four arguments: First, the Jordan is never explicitly referred to as a river in the Hebrew Bible, while all other rivers and wadis are also referred to as such.

Moreover, in the five books of Moses and the Book of Joshua, the term "this Jordan" appears six times, and this only makes sense if it is not the name of a river or mountain ridge, but a general topographical term: "this mountain range" (or "this escarpment").

Thirdly, the great and arduous event of the crossing of the Jordan, according to the Bible, would be much more plausible if Joshua's procession across the Jordan did not consist in the passage through a ten-meter wide river in summer, but in the crossing of a mountain range of up to 3,000 meters high, whose watercourses, moreover, turn into torrential torrents during the heavy rains of Asir.

Even details of the biblical account fit in better with Asir than with present-day Palestine, according to Salibi:

According to the Bible, Moses led the Israelites from Mount Hor to Zalmona (today's Salaman) and via six other places (all of which Salibi identifies in Asir) to Sittim (Satan) and "to the Jordan of Jericho" (as the passage in Genesis 33 should be translated exactly to Salibi), for Salibi the mountain ridge near today's village of Warah, the biblical Jericho.

Even the place of transition can, "if the Hebrew text is read accurately", accurately describe Salibi: the Buqran Pass between Adam and Guraba. After Joshua 4:8, when the Children of Israel had crossed the pass, they took from the escarpment (traditional translation: Jordan) twelve stones, symbol of the twelve tribes of Israel, which they placed in Gilgal (today's southwest Arabian Gulgul) as a memorial.

Salibi: "The anecdote is undoubtedly an attempt to explain why the rocky hill Jabal Gulgul stands in the plain of Sahl Gulgul in Wadi Adam. The plain and the rocky hill still exist there to this day, their biblical names have remained unchanged."
Matthew 3:6: and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.
Please note that the Greek scriptures of the New Testament were not written by the apostles. They are copies of the originals but they have been partially changed. For example, the name of God has been removed, there are also names that the apostles did not know and use, even the name of Jesus was created much later.
The Greek New Testament is not authentic.
 
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Radagast

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There is no satisfying archaeological find.

Well, I'm satisfied.

In the biblical "Jordan" there is a word root with the meaning "to descend, fall down".

Rivers descend.

The term "Jordan" is a topographical term and almost always means steep slope, mountain ridge.

False.

Salibi supports his assertion with four arguments: First, the Jordan is never explicitly referred to as a river in the Hebrew Bible

It's described as being full of flowing water.

Please note that the Greek scriptures of the New Testament were not written by the apostles.

Yes, they were.

They are copies of the originals but they have been partially changed.

No, they have not. Textual analysis of different manuscripts allows us to reconstruct the original.

For example, the name of God has been removed

Like the Septuagint (Greek O.T.) the New Testament uses Kurios ("Lord") instead.

even the name of Jesus was created much later

False. It is simply the Greek form of "Joshua."

The Greek New Testament is not authentic.

Anti-Christian nonsense.
 
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colen

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There was never any Palestine in ancient times

This isn't technically true. Herodotus says that the region of Syria between Egypt and Phoenicia is called Palestine,

"Now the only apparent way of entry into Egypt is this. The road runs from Phoenicia as far as the borders of the city of Cadytis, which belongs to the so-called Syrians of Palestine. From Cadytis (which, as I judge, is a city not much smaller than Sardis) to the city of Ienysus the seaports belong to the Arabians; then they are Syrian again from Ienysus as far as the Serbonian marsh, beside which the Casian promontory stretches seawards; from this Serbonian marsh, where Typho is supposed to have been hidden, the country is Egypt. Now between Ienysus and the Casian mountain and the Serbonian marsh there lies a wide territory for as much as three days' journey, terribly arid." - Herodotus, The Histories, Book 3, Ch. 1 (c. 450 BC)http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0126:book=3

And even earlier reference can be found on the Sabe Stele from about 800 BC, which records the Assyrian attack against "Pa-la-áš-tu",

"In the fifth year (of my official rule) I sat down solemnly on my royal throne and called up the country (for war). I ordered the numerous army of Assyria to march against "Pa-la-áš-tu". I crossed the Euphrates at its flood. As to the numerous hostile kings who had rebelled in the time of my father Shamshi-Adad (i.e. Shamshi-Adad V) and had wi[thheld] their regular (tributes), [the terror-inspiring glam] or overwhelmed them (and) upon the command of Asur, Sin, Shamash, Adad (and) Ishtar, my trust (-inspiring) gods, they seized my feet (in submission). I received all the tributes ... which they brought to Assyria. I (then) ordered [to march] against the country Damascus (Ša-imērišu)." - the Saba Stele

So as a term referencing that region of the Levant, it goes back quite some time. When the Romans renamed the province from Judea to Palestinia, they were choosing a quite ancient name for the region.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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