Israel law

[shilohsfoal]

Since this discussion is focusing on the ubiquitous term "Jew" and its derivations, this would be an appropriate time to ask:

What is the definition of Jew? What is/are the distinguishing characteristic/s which qualify one as a Jew?

Biblically ,a jew is someone whom Christ has confirmed the covenant with by placing the law in their heart.
Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God.

But In the case of Israeli citizens there are very few biblical Jews there.They are refered to as Christians or messianic Jews.

As with regards to the majority of people in Israel,most refer to themselves as Jews and are often called Jews by others.These who are not partakers of the covenant are not biblical,Jews.
Revelation 3:9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

 

[Ken Rank]

Biblically ,a new is someone whom Christ has confirmed the covenant with by placing the law in their heart.
Romans 2:29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God.

But I'm the case of Israeli citizens there are very few biblical Jews there.They are refers to as Christians or messianic Jews.

As with regards to the majority of people in Israel,most refer to themselves as Jews and are often called Jews by others.These who are not partakers of the covenant are not biblical,Jews.
Revelation 3:9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

That is another definition... but to force a word to have one meaning defies linguistics, words don't work that way. But, that is what we do and one of the many reasons why we have 30,000+ denominations and sects of the "one body."

 

[BABerean2]

If we would take the time to explain to all races of people that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Matthew 26:28, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, many more would come to faith in Christ.

When we add the "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53 and the timeline found in Daniel chapter 9, there is overwhelming proof that the baby born in a manger is the New Covenant Messiah foretold in the Hebrew scriptures.

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[jgr]

No, because when Scripture speaks of Judah I believe it is dealing more with the practicing Jew (whether messianic or not) and not the atheist Jew. But... since we "read" through the lens' of the cultures we are raised in... we need to be at least cognizant of the other definitions because sometimes we will read them into Scripture of current events... or not when we need to. The latter seems to be the point most have focused on with me today. I am not condoning the Israeli government decisions concerning Christian evangelism (which is not new by the way, these laws have been around for some time) but rather than I understand why they would make them. And us getting all mad and calling it persecution rather than understanding how THEY got to the place that causes them to make such a decision does not help the situation at all. If we took the time to talk to the Jews, build relationships and just be a good Samaritan (so to speak) then perhaps some walls will come down and people will ask more questions.

If I understand, then, anyone who converts to Judaism (if that's what is meant by a practicing Jew) qualifies.

Is ethnicity a criterion at all e.g. if someone qualifies only genetically, not religiously or culturally?

 

[Steve Petersen]

If I understand, then, anyone who converts to Judaism (if that's what is meant by a practicing Jew) qualifies.

Is ethnicity a criterion at all e.g. if someone qualifies only genetically, not religiously or culturally?

It is more complicated than that: Jewish identity - Wikipedia

 

[Ken Rank]

If I understand, then, anyone who converts to Judaism (if that's what is meant by a practicing Jew) qualifies.

Is ethnicity a criterion at all e.g. if someone qualifies only genetically, not religiously or culturally?

Culturally in a discussion like this yes, all forms matter because we are dealing with anyone who identifies as a Jew (for whatever reason) and Christians evangelizing them.

Edit to add- this is how I see it. Doesn't mean I am correct.

 

[Ken Rank]

It is more complicated than that: Jewish identity - Wikipedia

It is... this is something I could do a 4-6 hour talk on... snippets in a forum like this isn't always profitable either because it's hard to sit here and read in depth as the subject demands.

Blessings.

 

[GingerBeer]

Yes it is cultural and if you tried to take Christmas away from any atheists WHO KEEP IT you would have a war. Think about it.

No, there would be no war if you gave them a holiday instead. Hanukkah for example, or Quanza, or Happy Atheist holiday. It is not cultural, it is simply time off work and time to rest or celebrate or do work around the house for yourself.

 

[shilohsfoal]

That is another definition... but to force a word to have one meaning defies linguistics, words don't work that way. But, that is what we do and one of the many reasons why we have 30,000+ denominations and sects of the "one body."

I quoted a biblical definition plainly explained in the bible.Such as the word antichrist is plainly explained in the bible.Its very easy to see what an antichrist is according to John if that is where your knowledge of the word comes from.

 

[BABerean2]

It is more complicated than that: Jewish identity - Wikipedia

What does the New Testament have to say about this subject?

1Ti 1:4　 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.　


Mat 3:9　 and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.　


Joh 8:39　 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.　


Rom 2:28　 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;　
Rom 2:29　 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.　


Gal 3:16　 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ.　


1Jn 2:22　 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.　
1Jn 2:23　 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
　

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[jgr]

It is more complicated than that: Jewish identity - Wikipedia

From Wikipedia:
"Jews who are atheists may have a Jewish identity. While the absolute majority of people with this identity are of Jewish ethnicity..."

This tells me that ethnicity alone is a sufficient criterion to qualify an individual as a Jew. Would anyone disagree?

 

[Steve Petersen]

From Wikipedia:
"Jews who are atheists may have a Jewish identity. While the absolute majority of people with this identity are of Jewish ethnicity..."

This tells me that ethnicity alone is a sufficient criterion to qualify an individual as a Jew. Would anyone disagree?

Except that converts have always been considered Jewish. Ruth is an example.

 

[BABerean2]

From Wikipedia:
"Jews who are atheists may have a Jewish identity. While the absolute majority of people with this identity are of Jewish ethnicity..."

This tells me that ethnicity alone is a sufficient criterion to qualify an individual as a Jew. Would anyone disagree?

The only way to get a realistic picture of "ethnicity" would be with a DNA test.

After 70 AD those Jews who survived spread throughout the known world and intermarried with those of other ethnic groups.
There is now no standard with which to measure how many particular DNA markers are required to determine if a person is of a particular ethnic group.

There is an extremely high probability that many of us have an ancient ancestor who was a descendant of Jacob.

1 Timothy 1:4 is clear.
Genealogy is not to be used as a factor in faith and only produces disputes and confusion.

The best that we can do today is to share the Gospel will all people, no matter what their genetic makeup.

If someone says they are Jewish, it would probably be best to smile and accept what they say, because there is no real standard.

Those of our faith know that a person's relationship with God is not determined by who the persons mother and father would be.

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew 1:1.
This fact is confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16.

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[jgr]

Except that converts have always been considered Jewish. Ruth is an example.

Yes, agree. They would be in addition to those who qualify via ethnicity.

 

[jgr]

Yes, agree. They would be in addition to those who qualify via ethnicity.

So then there is a rather large problem.
Concluding statements in the article:
"...the number of people in the world today with the “Abrahamic Genetic Signature” is too large to count precisely. A reasonable estimate is in the hundreds of millions."

This could itself be conservative. In the approximately 50 biblical generations since Abraham, the probability that by now virtually every person on earth possesses at least one molecule of Abrahamic DNA could be 100%.

But irrespective of which estimate we use, we see:

Zechariah 13
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

This is doom for potentially hundreds of millions of individuals, a majority of whom are almost certainly unaware of the death sentence written in their Jewish DNA.

Jewish converts would be in addition to these numbers.

Does anyone else recognize a problem?

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Haven't read any replies... Just wandering through...

I believe Jesus was talking to the people He was talking to... not to us... when He said YOU WILL BE He was not talking to me or you, or anyone living today. And it was true, these things came to pass when the temple was destroyed in AD70. I don't see a reason to apply Jesus' words to anyone but the people he was talking to at the time He said it.

 

[dqhall]

Luke 21:16 You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death.

Other than the anti missionary laws of Israel,what other laws do you believe the Israeli government will pass calling for the imprisonment for Christians in Israel?

There are churches in Israel. Some of these are Arab Christian and a few are Jewish Christian.

Someone once said that Christians have it better in Israel than other parts of the Mideast. If you research, you might find the amount of vandalism to church buildings in Egypt is worse than the vandalism of churches in Israel. The penalty for a Saudi Arabian preaching Christianity in Saudi Arabia is more severe than the penalties measured out by Israel. The fate of the Christians in Syria and Iraq during the recent uprisings was much worse than what has happened in Israel. Genocide was instituted by Muslim radicals.

I met some Christians in Nazareth. One was an employee of an Israeli government welfare office and well educated. During my stay in Nazareth, I learned many Christians left Nazareth to go to other nations. The town now has a Muslim mayor instead of a Christian mayor. Christians in Bethlehem claimed they were being persecuted by Muslims. Some years ago, the Muslims in Nazareth rioted against Christians going through a Christian neighborhood smashing car windows.

 

[shilohsfoal]

There are churches in Israel. Some of these are Arab Christian and a few are Jewish Christian.

Someone once said that Christians have it better in Israel than other parts of the Mideast. If you research, you might find the amount of vandalism to church buildings in Egypt is worse than the vandalism of churches in Israel. The penalty for a Saudi Arabian preaching Christianity in Saudi Arabia is more severe than the penalties measured out by Israel. The fate of the Christians in Syria and Iraq during the recent uprisings was much worse than what has happened in Israel. Genocide was instituted by Muslim radicals.

I met some Christians in Nazareth. One was an employee of an Israeli government welfare office and well educated. During my stay in Nazareth, I learned many Christians left Nazareth to go to other nations. The town now has a Muslim mayor instead of a Christian mayor. Christians in Bethlehem claimed they were being persecuted by Muslims. Some years ago, the Muslims in Nazareth rioted against Christians going through a Christian neighborhood smashing car windows.

Your trying to say Muslims persecute more Christians than,Jews?
Is there a competition?

In case you havnt noticed,i've been,quoting scripture of Jesus telling his disciples what will happen to them within Israel.Not worldwide or even outside israels borders.

 

[Ken Rank]

No, there would be no war if you gave them a holiday instead. Hanukkah for example, or Quanza, or Happy Atheist holiday. It is not cultural, it is simply time off work and time to rest or celebrate or do work around the house for yourself.

When people want to be correct, they will place their heads down with fingers in their ears and just plow through anything that stands opposed to their preconceived notions. We do our spiritual growth a disservice when we go there, Ginger.

Here is the bottom line... you admitted it earlier, most atheists celebrate Christmas. It has no religious context for them (nor should it anyway, Yeshua wasn't born on that day)..... but they still set the day aside and celebrate it using every trinket the Christians do. The atheists who keep it put up a tree, exchange gifts, have a large meal... all just like the Christians do. The ONLY difference is they don't go to church on or around that day... otherwise, they even sing the same songs. Since that is "TRUE" then Christmas is very clearly BOTH religious and cultural. If what I just said was not true, and it was ONLY a religious holiday... they would NOT celebrate it at all. Since they do... you don't have a point, Ginger.

 

[Ken Rank]

I quoted a biblical definition plainly explained in the bible.Such as the word antichrist is plainly explained in the bible.Its very easy to see what an antichrist is according to John if that is where your knowledge of the word comes from.

I understand... I have no contention with "you" at all. We might not come to some of the same conclusions, but I have no issue with you, ok? As for anti-Christ... there is always more than one definition for any word and in some places the manner in which you use it fits, and in other places it doesn't. Not sure getting into all that is worth our time, though. Be blessed.