Israel law

[Ken Rank]

If Christians would allow Jews to retain their Jewish practice and not insist that they worship Jesus as God, there may be room for interfaith dialog.

But, Israeli Jews are overwhelmingly secular (like 80% from what I hear.) They may be more open to Yeshua.

I would think that is a better place to begin the discussion.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You see that an anti-Christ laws... they don't see Christ as having come yet (most don't, many do). All they are doing is trying to protect their identity. People like Hitler (and others before and after him) have come to eradicate the Jews, some in Jesus name.... and they perceive giving up those things that define being Jewish as another attempt at the same. That law (which isn't new, it has been around for some time) only serves to protect themselves and their identity as they understand things. You see evil... I don't.. sorry. I just see somebody who doesn't have your (or my) understanding about Yeshua trying to protect themselves from what is unknown to them.

Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

So as long as they pesecute the saints for the right reasons that makes it ok?

 

[Ken Rank]

Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

So as long as they pesecute the saints for the right reasons that makes it ok?

Uhm... no, didn't say that nor is Daniel 7:25 speaking about the Orthodox Jews! All I said was... I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY TAKE THIS POSITION. Our history reveals that many Jews have died in Jesus name. Stop and think about that for a little while before coming back with some quick emotion based answer. If your people had been killed in the name of ___ and then somebody came teaching ____ to your people... you would just stand there and let it happen?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Another aspect of Jewish conversion to Christianity is that, if they adopt Christian doctrine and practice, they would cease to be Jewish. Obviously they are Jewish in descent, but the Torah would disappear from the world, and culturally Jews would become extinct.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Thankfully, Christians and Jews are coming together:

This is from the Vatican: Vatican issues new document on Christian-Jewish dialogue - Vatican Radio

This is from 25 Orthodox Jewish Rabbis: Orthodox Rabbinic Statement on Christianity

 

[Ken Rank]

Another aspect of Jewish conversion to Christianity is that, if they adopt Christian doctrine and practice, they would cease to be Jewish. Obviously they are Jewish in descent, but the Torah would disappear from the world, and culturally Jews would become extinct.

That is my exact point Steve and why I can say I "understand" the no-evangelizing position. Just as Hitler attempted to eradicate Jewish identity by killing them... they view Christian doctrine that the Torah has been done away with (meaning, convert but leave the feasts, Sabbath, kosher eating, etc. behind) as another attempt to eradicate Jewish identity. This time, not by killing all Jews... but by making them in practice disappear.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Uhm... no, didn't say that nor is Daniel 7:25 speaking about the Orthodox Jews! All I said was... I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY TAKE THIS POSITION. Our history reveals that many Jews have died in Jesus name. Stop and think about that for a little while before coming back with some quick emotion based answer. If your people had been killed in the name of ___ and then somebody came teaching ____ to your people... you would just stand there and let it happen?

I highly dought there are any jews being killed by Israeli Christians in Israel.But I bet there have been many Israeli Christians been killed by Jews and many more shall be.

And the passage I quoted is about Israel law.You see.The Israeli Christians in Israel are under the laws of the Israeli goverment.

 

[Ken Rank]

Thankfully, Christians and Jews are coming together:

This is from the Vatican: Vatican issues new document on Christian-Jewish dialogue - Vatican Radio

This is from 25 Orthodox Jewish Rabbis: Orthodox Rabbinic Statement on Christianity

There are other, smaller groups as well. I co-founded United 2 Restore with an Orthodox Jewish man named Hanoch Young. Together we simply take the public position that while we are both open to sharing what we believe with anyone who asks... we otherwise just learn to live in mutual respect and understanding knowing that, at some point, God will draw ALL His people together as one. And what that looks like, in the end... is probably going to be closer to someplace between Christianity and Judaism rather than one over the other. (IMHO)

 

[Dave-W]

Another aspect of Jewish conversion to Christianity is that, if they adopt Christian doctrine and practice, they would cease to be Jewish. Obviously they are Jewish in descent, but the Torah would disappear from the world, and culturally Jews would become extinct.

So you buy into Justin Martyr's lies too.

 

[Dave-W]

I highly dought there are any jews being killed by Israeli Christians in Israel.

There are Palestinian Christians who have killed Jews.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I highly dought there are any jews being killed by Israeli Christians in Israel.But I bet there have been many Israeli Christians been killed by Jews and many more shall be.

No one is justifying mistreatment of Christians.

 

[Ken Rank]

I highly dought there are any jews being killed by Israeli Christians in Israel.But I bet there have been many Israeli Christians been killed by Jews and many more shall be.

You can "doubt" whatever you want... but history is very well recorded and Jews over the centuries have been killed in "Jesus name." That is what most Christians are ignorant of... forced baptisms... or "eat pork or die" and some have chosen death. We have that history recorded... but if you are going to 'bet MANY Israeli Christians have been killed by Jews' you need to bring evidence or you are bearing false witness.

 

[Steve Petersen]

So you buy into Justin Martyr's lies too.

 

[Ken Rank]

There are Palestinian Christians who have killed Jews.

Different situation and I would think you know it. The fact that a Palestinian is Christian or Islamic (or even JEWISH as many are...genetically) is not usually the determining factor in why they might have killed a Jew. The fact that the Jew was a Jew and they are Palestinian was the reason.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Jewish persecution: 70 to 1200 CE

 

[Steve Petersen]

Jewish persecution from 1200 to 1800 CE

 

[Steve Petersen]

2000 year history of Jewish persecution

 

[GingerBeer]

Other than the antimissionary laws of israel,what other laws do you believe the Israeli goverment will pass calling for the imprisonment for Christians in Israel?

Hopefully Israel will pass no further laws to suppress Christianity within their borders, but it is possible that they will. It ought to be remembered that Israel is allegedly a secular state however it has strong religious biases against Christianity.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You can "doubt" whatever you want... but history is very well recorded and Jews over the centuries have been killed in "Jesus name." That is what most Christians are ignorant of... forced baptisms... or "eat pork or die" and some have chosen death. We have that history recorded... but if you are going to 'bet MANY Israeli Christians have been killed by Jews' you need to bring evidence or you are bearing false witness.

Here is one such murder
Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Now you show me one such murder of a jew by an Israeli Christian.

 

[GingerBeer]

Another aspect of Jewish conversion to Christianity is that, if they adopt Christian doctrine and practice, they would cease to be Jewish. Obviously they are Jewish in descent, but the Torah would disappear from the world, and culturally Jews would become extinct.

The torah is the first five books of every Christian's old testament. It is not going to disappear.