Israel bars Congress members who support boycott from entering.

Speedwell

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I do disagree. I believe that Israel has been one of the most valuable allies to the US with regard to military and intelligence matters.
For which we pay them four billion or so per year.
 
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Aldebaran

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True, it's a one sided road for some.
2020 looking better daily.

M-Bob

When the squad speaks, they are exercising their free speech rights and standing up to Trump.
When Trump says something in response, he's victimizing these poor "women of color".

Equal rights, where some people's rights are more equal than others.
 
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RDKirk

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I do disagree. I believe that Israel has been one of the most valuable allies to the US with regard to military and intelligence matters.

No, the Israelis have never done the US any military favors. Especially not in intelligence, unless it benefited them directly. But even Russia has done that much.

"Ally" means, "I'll be there for you and with you."

England has been a true ally to the US. So has Canada and Australia.

Isreal...no. Not ever.
 
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mark46

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a very Trumpian attitude indeed

Our alliances are not measured on a transactional basis unless you are Trump. Of course, if one of the lefties is elected, the relationship with Israel will very likely change drastically.

Israel has many military and intelligence allies. Whether they are allies or not is not measured by the foreign aid to Israel paid by the various countries.

For which we pay them four billion or so per year.
 
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mark46

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fair enough

Perhaps if leftist Democrats are elected, we will start to move away from Israel.

I suppose this is inevitable as the American voter becomes more isolationist. Israel will need to become closer to her other allies, countries like India and South Korea, and probably China and Eastern European countries.

No, the Israelis have never done the US any military favors. Especially not in intelligence, unless it benefited them directly. But even Russia has done that much.

"Ally" means, "I'll be there for you and with you."

England has been a true ally to the US. So has Canada and Australia.

Isreal...no. Not ever.
 
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Speedwell

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fair enough

Perhaps if leftist Democrats are elected, we will start to move away from Israel.

I suppose this is inevitable as the American voter becomes more isolationist. Israel will need to become closer to her other allies, countries like India and South Korea, and probably China and Eastern European countries.
No, what's inevitable is that our relationship with Israel will begin to allow for more criticism of their actions as our policy towards them becomes less motivated by the eschatological fantasies of the Christian Right.
 
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DaisyDay

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hislegacy

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365FE88D-C743-4B36-9078-C87CD36FCE10.jpeg


“I approved her request as a gesture of good will on a humanitarian basis, but it was just a provocative request aimed at bashing the State of Israel,” he continued. “Apparently her hate for Israel overcomes her love for her grandmother.”


Proves this is yet just another political stunt from a congress woman who supports anti Semites.
 
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Belk

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That right is not absolute, remember?

What does that have to do with anything? That is still the principle she is fighting to protect.

Opinions can be stated at any time without causing violence or uprisings. If she wants to state an opinion, she can use social media just like everyone else. Everyone will see her opinion.

Why do you keep directing this away from the central aspect of free speech? Should you or should you not have the right to go to those states and voice your opinion? Is it acceptable for the government to make your ability to visit your relatives contingent on you not speaking of things they do not like?

Object to it as much as you like. It's still a fact.

False dichotomies are not facts and neither is your opinion of her motivation.



More important than her own family? If going to Israel for the main purpose of complaining about Israel, then why not go to any state in America instead and complain about what she doesn't like about each one? Nobody will stop her from doing that. But then, maybe that's what she wants???

Think of it this way: If you had a big family that was always having an annual family reunion, and you were someone who always showed up to start arguments with people and you always tried turning people against each other, don't you think the family would eventually not invite you to come anymore? They may even simply tell you that you are no longer invited.

Or we could stick with the case and skip the analogy. Should the government have the power to limit your ability to visit your relatives based on if they like your speech?

I'd explain it that way if that was what I said my point was.

Then what is your point Aldebaran?
 
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Aldebaran

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What does that have to do with anything? That is still the principle she is fighting to protect.

See post #93 about her stated intentions.

Why do you keep directing this away from the central aspect of free speech? Should you or should you not have the right to go to those states and voice your opinion? Is it acceptable for the government to make your ability to visit your relatives contingent on you not speaking of things they do not like?

Israel is not a state. It is a sovereign nation with the right to make it's own laws.

False dichotomies are not facts and neither is your opinion of her motivation.

Perhaps you don't agree with it, but it's still a fact.

Or we could stick with the case and skip the analogy. Should the government have the power to limit your ability to visit your relatives based on if they like your speech?

If you're not a citizen of that country, then yes.

Then what is your point Aldebaran?

That Israel has the right to determine who gets to enter their country.
 
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Belk

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See post #93 about her stated intentions.



Israel is not a state. It is a sovereign nation with the right to make it's own laws.



Perhaps you don't agree with it, but it's still a fact.



If you're not a citizen of that country, then yes.



That Israel has the right to determine who gets to enter their country.


It appears we have reached the point where some Americans will gladly abandon the principle of free speech for political rivals.
 
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Aldebaran

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It appears we have reached the point where some Americans will gladly abandon the principle of free speech for political rivals.

It's better than abandoning national sovereignty. Remember, it's Israel we're talking about. Talib can say whatever she wants against America and Israel while she's here. She should be thankful for that.
 
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Belk

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It's better than abandoning national sovereignty. Remember, it's Israel we're talking about. Talib can say whatever she wants against America and Israel while she's here. She should be thankful for that.

I must of missed where anyone attacked their national sovereignty?
 
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Aldebaran

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I must of missed where anyone attacked their national sovereignty?

Israel has the right as a sovereign nation to decide who gets to enter, and to keep out those who seek to cause problems by encouraging disunity. When she wanted to do that, she wasn't allowed in. When she stated that she just wanted to visit her grandmother, she was allowed in. The rest is up to her. She decided against it. Case closed.
 
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Belk

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Israel has the right as a sovereign nation to decide who gets to enter, and to keep out those who seek to cause problems by encouraging disunity. When she wanted to do that, she wasn't allowed in. When she stated that she just wanted to visit her grandmother, she was allowed in. The rest is up to her. She decided against it. Case closed.

No, when she was required to have her free speech curtailed in order to visit her grandmother she refused.

Let's try some of your logic here.

You can either attack you political rival or support free speech. You have attacked your political rival. Therefore you do not hold free speech to be an important value.

Correct?
 
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Aldebaran

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No, when she was required to have her free speech curtailed in order to visit her grandmother she refused.

Let's try some of your logic here.

You can either attack you political rival or support free speech. You have attacked your political rival. Therefore you do not hold free speech to be an important value.

Correct?

Incorrect. If the nation a conservative politician wanted to go to decided to not allow them in because the conservative politician wanted to bad-mouth the nation they were visiting, I'd find that understandable, just as I'd find it understandable if I went to someone's home and started bad-mouthing the family there and ended up getting kicked out on my ear by the owner as a result.
 
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Belk

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Incorrect. If the nation a conservative politician wanted to go to decided to not allow them in because the conservative politician wanted to bad-mouth the nation they were visiting, I'd find that understandable, just as I'd find it understandable if I went to someone's home and started bad-mouthing the family there and ended up getting kicked out on my ear by the owner as a result.


Ah! So you support attacking your political rivals and don't prioritize free speech. Just as I said.
 
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mark46

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So, I should only visit countries where I am allowed to campaign against the government, and support a boycott against the government. It shouldn't matter if I have family. The principle is too important. If I can't make political speeches, I should, in conscience avoid such countries.

Really?
 
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